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Thread: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

  1. #31

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    "When there is no mind, the "I" is not there but the other gunas might be there in satvik form. " yes very true..the gunas themselves will have that "I" in them...

    "Now the formation of mind - is it a combination of the gunas and ... ? "..yes like the RGB example, hear lets for the sake of understanding say that 0% indicates lack of a particular guna and 100% indicates fullness of a particular guna...hence at the begining when mind is created from Saatvika guba, it will ha
    Saatvika Raajasika Taamasika
    100 0 0

    but as the mind gets trapped with the indriyas and other stuff around, the gunas start to condition the Mind accordingly...the value of the gunas keep on changing and as Sri Vaasudeva says in Bhagavad Gita, the influence of gunas keep changing...conditioning of the mind indicates the gunas which will be impacting it more ...

    mind or manah..is such an important thing, it will the greatest friend if tamed, else will be the greatest enemy..it becomes very important to dedicate a lot of discussions on this mind as its one of the Prime entity which is performing a lot of actions...

    now what will be very interesting is that Sri Krishna in Bhagavad Gita, gives mind, a dual identity...He refers to mind also as an "indriya"..the 11th one....this can be so beautifully understood..lets dig in deep in the next post...

  2. #32
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Om

    Namaste

    That seems logical. As mind moves from satvik and acquires rajas and tamas characteristics also the the other gunas also get attached.

    And when you say gunas also have "I" then should I assume they also have instances of mind ?

    Interesting

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  3. #33

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    "And when you say gunas also have "I" then should I assume they also have instances of mind ?" thats the point we are trying to understand from these principles..its actually the other way round....

    - the first entities that were created were the three ahankara["Identity or Aham or I"]...
    - so on what basis were they classified as three different aham?
    - based on kriya shakthi...the power to perform an action or a particular kind of action
    - what were the three kriya shakthis on which the aham were classified
    - the kriya shakthis based on the characteristics of shaanta[serene or equilibrium], ghora[strongly pro-active], vimudha[idle or ignorance] were classified as three gunas...

    so it means the Gunas are the "names" based on certain "characteristics", which are defined for the forces[kriya-shakthi] of the Aham...

    Main entity - AHAM - defined based on a particular "kriya-shakthi"- will be called as Gunas

    now Mind or Manah is derived from the saatvika guna...it means
    - Saatvika guna is the parent of Manah and hence the Guna itself does not have Mind..but because Mind is derived from a Guna[which is the name of an Ahankaara], Mind by default will have an Aham...Guna itself is an Aham...

    please let me know if thats clear as this will be the basis for every other understanding...

  4. #34
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Om

    Namaste Sanatan Dharma.

    Samkhya philosophy is not known to me in some details, so it was difficult to comprehend at first. I had to refer to some information with hierarchy charts to understand the same.

    To some extent it is clear. We can proceed to the next step. I will start reading more on this philosophy.

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  5. #35

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Namaste Kallol,

    The only reason I asked about the clarity of my explanation was to improve it, if it was not clear.. as the main purpose of such discussions is to share and gain knowledge

    continuing...

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.29]

    taijasāt tu vikurvāṇād
     buddhi-tattvam abhūt sati
    dravya-sphuraṇa-vijñānam
     indriyāṇām anugrahaḥ


    Sri Kapila Maharshi says

    when the aham which has the kriya-shakthi of being characterized as proactive, which is named as taijasa or raajasika, underwent transformation under the influence of Paramathma as that infinite inexhaustible energy Time, the principle of "Budhi or Intellect" came into existence.....

    dravya sphurana vijnaanam...the knowledge about the elements when contacted,
    indriyaanaam anugrahah...supporting and helping the indriyas activities...

    please note the most important point of intellect here....the term "jnaana or gnaana" or knowledge is introduced here ...what knowledge are we referring to?...about every element present within the prakruthi...the understanding of these elements is the prime objective of intellect...its this intellect with that knowledge allows us to even read and write in this forum...only with the knowledge of every element required the concept of "understanding" and then "realizing" even happen....

    also please note that the indriyas which are the gochara[sensory], kriya[actuators] and the most important 11th one ...Manah..[remember the dual role of Mind] are all aided by the intellect...

    budhi or intellect is like laying the tracks for a train...and mind is like the train which will strictly follow the tracks....the more good knowledge our intellect collects, the mind will be conditioned better....

    we will link the entities more clearly in the next post...

  6. #36
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Om

    Namaste

    Right. Manah is aided by the five senses through the 5 sensory organs and the intellect to take decisions through the 5 action organs.

    The satvik mind represents the satya loka or the highest loka and as it moves down the the rajas part increases and ends at the tamas part or the 14th loka - the so called inert universe. If I may put it that way.

    However human and all beings are a combination of the entire spectrum.

    This combination (variation) also decides the evolution of intellect - can it be possible also ?

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  7. #37

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    "This combination (variation) also decides the evolution of intellect - can it be possible also ?" yes..very much...now lets take an example here...

    when a child takes birth, ofcourse the "conditioned state" exists from the previous janma, however, lets take the infant stage...when its parents and surrounding people start feeding it with different kinds of food...

    based on the previous karma, when a child takes birth in a saatvik environment, its intellect is provided with the knowledge that "himsa" or "violence" for sensory gratification is adharma...ahimsa is dharma...hence an animal, which can feel pain, should not be killed, only for the purpose of satisfying the sense of taste... saatvika food needs to be consumed, only after offering it to Paramathma....as you mentioned, the high rate of saatvika influence on this child's intellect evolves it with greater knowledge that causing pain for sensory satisfaction is not righteous...the intellect by learning the fact that everything should be offered to Paramathma, definitely gets evolved towards the Supreme...

    where as take another scenario...when a child takes birth in a family which consumes animal flesh for the satisfaction of their senses....this child is automatically given the dead animal's meat from its very young age and its intellect does not evolve too well towards Paramathma...

    Ofcourse one can never rule out the possibilities that the child from first scenario, with evolving intellect, can later due to bad influence[effect of surrounding gunas] take the wrong path, thus stopping the evolution in right direction.. or the child from second scenario, due to good influence later on, gets its intellect evolved and stops the cruel act of eating meat for sense gratifications...

    this whole point of non existence of stability inside this universe is the reason why Maaya is so strong and powerful...conditioning is very important and as SRi Vaasudeva says in Bhagavad Gita, the sat-sangha or the connection with those whose intellects are evolving towards the reality is extremely important...

  8. #38

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    continuing...

    one of the most confusing and unclear concept of distinguishing the materialistic brain and the subtle intellect is very interesting...most of us relate, very easily, that brain is intellect...however we need to first of all understand the following terms to differentiate between the physical entity and the subtle entity

    data
    memory
    database
    database management system[conditioning with impression]

    data mainly consists of packets of information which actually are derived from the spectrum of bhutas and are embedded in the maatras...we will get to individual bhuta and maatras origin later on...
    the information present in the maatras provide what we refer to as knowledge...data is being bombarded to the sensory organs on a continuous basis...the following kinds of phenomena are associated with data "dravya sphurana vijnaanam...the knowledge about the elements when contacted"

    - consumption of data using the sensory organs
    - processing the consumed data [understanding]
    - saving or storing the data [memory]
    - prompting the data to support mind in choosing and performing actions
    - removal of stored data [forgetting]
    - ignoring the incoming data and rejecting it by shutting the sensory organs...

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.30]

    saṁśayo ’tha viparyāso
     niścayaḥ smṛtir eva ca
    svāpa ity ucyate buddher
     lakṣaṇaṁ vṛttitaḥ pṛthak


    Sri Kapila Maharshi beautifully enumerates the lakshanas of budhi, which will help us understand the other three terms...

    samshaya..or the ability to doubt, to be skeptical or not believe, and thus the possibility to err or commit a mistake ...viparyaasa

    nischaya..or the ability to confirm after processing and to form basis in performing a correct action

    along with....

    [this gets very very interesting here....please note that there are four states[avasthe] in which the subtle energies of antaraatma can exist..jaagruta, svapna, su-supta, turya...we will not get into the details here as it will be a new, but a very important topic by itself..how ever in order to experience two of these states, its the intellect that directly is associated as the cause...]

    smriti or the ability to remember..derived from smarana...to remember or recollect...the concept of getting back the knowledge..remembering and recollecting...this happens in an continuous loop until unless acted by the intellect otherwise...and this is the building block of experiencing the jaagruta avaste...smriti gives us the experience of life...its the memory...smriti is the most important part of anyone as its the "secret key" to exit this maaya...as Sri Vaasudeva says in Bhagavad Gita, when an entity "remembers [smarana]" Paramathma during the time of final travel from a particular body, its possible to attain Paramaathma...so this lakshana called smriti of budhi is perhaps the most useful thing in this universe....

    svaapa or the ability to dream...dream is an un-orchestrated flow of random thoughts which are taken from the memory...this is the intellect's lakshana that induces the "svapna avasthe" ...its only because of this lakshana of intellect, we even dream...dream is a state where random thoughts with no proper streamlining occur which leaves the person in a state where a "simulator" kind of experience is obtained...

    a lot to continue in the next post...

  9. #39

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    continuing...

    the smrithi and svaapa are lakshanas of budhi...which means these two states or avastha of existence are primarily dependent on budhi...now the phrase evolution of intellect which has been mentioned sometimes, comes into picture...the budhi or intellect which has these clearly distinguished lakshanas will have the effect of those states in the same way too...during the lifetime of a person, the intellect can
    - evolve, gain more knowledge, seek more information and thus grow towards reality or
    - continue to get entangled in accumulating more information about pleasure and pain thus circling continuously while advancing nowhere or
    - remain stagnant with absolutely no progress thus remaining ignorantly inactive

    as one can notice the three gunas play a very important role in shaping up the the knowledge intellect can gain and thus helping it evolve or roam aimlessly or stay stagnant

    all the data or information that is input from the sensory system is simultaneously stored in a physical database which is the brain...please note that the data is stored in brain, but the intellect has knowledge about it and can recollect this data...the intellect is embedded subtly inside the brain like sweetness in sugar...

    while all of these happen, there is a background process that is always happening..."conditioning"...before understanding conditioning, there is a step where "impressions" are created...imagine the good old days when a "carbon paper" was kept between the actual document and the duplicate document and anything that was written on the actual document created a similar impression on the duplicate document...also the more pressed the pen was on the actual document, the more clear the impression on the duplicate one...

    we will relate this example in next post

  10. #40
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Om

    Namaste.

    Thanks. It clears the evolution of intellect.

    Does it talk about the micro evolution of the intellect ?

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

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