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Thread: Vishnu as an expansion of Krishna?

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    Re: Vishnu as an expansion of Krishna?

    Namaste Red Dragon,

    I will carry on if any interest. When some devotees mainly in iskcon hear the words oneness, sameness and undifferentiated they usually call mayavada as a detrimental term or some type of illusion and false conclusion of vedanta or more over advaita vedanta. I don't really want to get into that side of things, it just causes tension, but there is still the need to understand this in the right or at least set up a healthy format for discussing and exploring it deeper. The level of hate that's directed to anyone who is considered an impersonalist or mayavada, which in some places is everyone outside of the 4 vaishnava sampradayas and oddly or not suprisingly Christianity is given a higher status than some of the traditional vedantist and past acharyas from other lines.

    That however should not distract from trying to understand what is meant by the personalist and the impersonalist, personalist I am using as the bhakta and impersonalist is the jnani. Jnani is one who meditates or has direct experiencing Brahman. As I briefly touched upon in the previous post the impersonal is the transcendent reality that exists para or above the mind and body reality.

    A true jnani is very rare as sri krsna says in Bhagavad gita and gives him the highest praise. The jnani is One with Brahman, non different, the seperation has been dropped, laid down and ones ow true nature is in Union with the divine. If we use gaudia vaishnava saying same in quality, so the jnani is fully at one in quality with Brahman, this stage or state, realization is known as kaivalya.

    In the early translations of vedanta the word God and Self was used for Brahman. Now considering that the majority of the audience has monotheistic view of God as this all powerful Being who creates everything, a supreme deity the thought of that type of God as being one true Self is totally absurd, and not what vedanta is saying. And the consequence of this is what's termed as neo advaita, which has its good parts but in general it's not really vedanta.

    While the real jnani has no conflict with bhakti, bhakti or devotion and the need for good karma yoga society is something that anyone can take part in, to imitate a real true state of being in brahman is impossible, but anyone can learn through bhakti and devotion. In the early translations of the word bhakti many times I found it was translated as mystic devotion. All activities in this world and all the yogas systems become perfected by bhakti, there is no conflict no fight between bhakti and jnana. The jnani realizes the Absolute via brahma joyti, brahma joyti is translated as the impersonal rays of Brahman. Iskcon now says that brahma joyti is a place, a location where the impersonal jnani resides in a blissful void enjoying impersonal rays coming from the adi or original personality krsna.

    For myself I made it very simple, brahma means brahma~brahmann absolute reality and joyti as light, or illumination. They are the rays that light up brahman, this is where everything becomes visible.

    In guru puja, in gaudia they Divya jnan hridey prokasito
    Prokasito is bengali for prakash, such a beautiful line, just this line is enough to explain brahma joyti. Divya is transcendent but also div is from deva which means to shine jnan is Self, glowing bright hrid is the centre or centre of our being, the heart Atma, prokasito or prakash, is also illuminating, translated sometimes as magic, magic meaning wonder, amazement, something that is linked to the wonder of being illuminated, in sushupti or deep yogic sleep brahma joyti or the illuminating of light reveals everything.

    BG 4.38
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 28 March 2018 at 08:25 AM.

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