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Thread: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?- other views

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    Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?- other views

    Namaste,

    In another thread with same name a very good discussion has been there and explanation offered by Sanatan Dharma is really very valuable.

    Is it only to be seen from Biological PoV ?
    Or we should also see it as a continuum and connected to the "permanent state" ?
    In case it is biological, which is more relevant to the gross body, where as the intellect belongs to the subtle world, is it possible to replace head of any person with Einstein's head and we will get another Einstein ?
    If no then, the question comes to mind that what contributes to the intellect component ?
    Is the "permanent state" connected with us at gross and subtle levels through the 5 elements ?
    If so which all elements connect us for the subtle elements ? Is light one source for transmission and evolvement of intellect ? Is exposure to sunlight has any impact ? Does entry of sunlight through eyes have any impact ?
    These are questions presently pushing my mind. Look forward to your insights in these areas


    However, can we give a simpler explanation to whatever has been asked for by OP in the heading ? I have opened this thread to avoid derailing strings of thoughts being offered by Sanatan Dharma in another thread. Here we may have different point of views. I will explain the following post how I see this. Other members are requested to offer their valuable inputs.

    OM


    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?- other vi

    Namaste,

    My understanding comes from study of Bhagwad Gita, Upanishads and Guru's teachings. If there is any flaw in whatever I say here, is due to my own faulty understanding and not due to any flaw in the above three authorities.

    AtmAn or Brahman is the sole reality and that alone exists. So, how come there are Prakriti and its elements ? If they too exist then what happens to "It alone exists" ? MAndukya Upanishad starts with "Sarv hi etad Brahman" ===> This all is Brahman. And "Ayam AtmAn Brahman" ==> This AtmAn is Brahman. "So ayam AtmAn chatushpAt" ==> That very AtmAn (also stated as Brahman earlier) is four footed or exists as four quarters or has four states of existence.

    If we read this Upanishad further it describes four different states of this AtmAn or Brahman - a) Vishva i.e. the gross world b) Taijasa i.e. the Subtle World c) PrAjna i.e. God state which rules over a) and b) and d) Turiya which cannot be described and which is the state wherein all "prapanch" (activities/agitation/multitude) come to an end.

    Now, how can there be four when it is told to us again and again that "It is One alone". If we see the third state of Brahman : It is described as "Undifferentiated Mass of Consciousness which enjoys bliss and which is the Lord of the first two states and also the origin and end of all being these two states". However, the answer to OP's question doesn't need elaboration on this issue which is quite complicated and therefore we shall be satisfied only with the Three States in this discussion.

    The Third state is Undifferentiated Mass of Consciousness i.e. the consciousness which is perceived in the first two states is reflected consciousness coming originally from the Third state. It is not that a part of Consciousness from the Third State is transferred into the beings of the first two. If that were so, the Third cannot remain undifferentiated Consciousness. The consciousness from Third state is only reflected on the beings.

    The first two states are called MAyic states i.e. created by the power of MAyA of the Third i.e. God-state. What is Prakriti ? Prakriti literally means "Nature". It is the Nature of the Third state and so it cannot be conceived separate from God. Both are inseparable. God is eternal and so is His Prakriti. This Prakriti or Nature of God creates these two worlds (gross and subtle) where we find the eight elements (or 24 elements descried in other Shastras) which make this universe as it is. I will stick to Bhagwad Gita wherein the Prakriti is considered to be made of 8 elements - 5 MahAbutAs, Observing Mind (Munn), Intellect (Buddhi) and I-ness (Ahamkaar).

    So, how these elements are created in the first place ? The third state is described Only as "Undifferentiated Mass of Consciousness". So, all elements are coming from Consciousness. We can say that the Consciousness (Consciousness) is the origin of the eight elements of Prakriti. Or we can say that these elements of Prakriti are actually modified form of Consciousness alone. How ? Can we have an example with which can explain this ? Yes. Let's take the example of a dreamer watching a dream. In the dream world created by his own consciousness (reflected into dream state) there are colours, sounds, smell, gross and subtle elements i.e. all elements that we in our gross world. There is also reflected consciousness in various animals, men and women we see in the dream world and all of them behave differently. What I am trying to say here that the stone that we see in the dream, the wood that we see in the dream, the light we see in the dream, the water we see in the dream, the sky we see in the dream, the conditioned Munn, Buddhi and Ahamkaar we see there in the dream world in different beings perceived in the dream are nothing but creation of dreamer's own conditioned Consciousness. Why conditioned ? Because reflected consciousness in a being keeps collecting samskaars due to its stored memories, environment around the being, its deeds and its way of thinking. Depending upon what samskaars we have, we create different types of beings within the dream world.

    The OP's question is about "Intellect" and "how it increases" ? If we look at our gross world, we find various creatures having different bands of intellect. Why ? All "Intellects" are coming from the same Consciousness and therefore it is actually Intellect at its best alone but it acts in subdued or sharper manner because of influence of samskaar it comes with. The intellects of a dog and a human being are actually the same intellect ... the untainted intellect (of God) in the Prakriti but the samskaars which create a human being and that which create a dog are different and that is why there is difference in intensities of intellects in the two species. Again, there is perceived difference of intellects from one human being to the other human being. So perception of "increase or decrease of intellect" is actually illusory. As the samskaar changes, the environment changes, the shine of the intellect also changes." Your intellect when you are happy and your intellect when you are angry are the same but behave in completely different manner as your samskaar and environment get changed. Learning or acquiring new information changes our samskaar. A normal person may be very very intelligent but if the same person goes insane (physical or psychological damage to brain), what happens to his intellect ? The bundle of thoughts (and these thoughts again arise from our samskaar) which occupy our mind are responsible for how our intellect shines at a particular time. What does it mean ? Being born with the same samskaar, our intellect would behave differently at different times depending upon what thought is in control at a particular time. Similarly, the environment around us is also responsible for making a particular thought in our mind in dominant position at a particular time.

    So, your saying that "Intellect is increasing" is only perceived as such. It is the samskaar which changes, it is the role of a particular thought at a certain time, it is because of changed environment and it is also because of physical state of our brain which reflects our intellect.

    Can we create another Einstein by grafting original brain or Einstein into another body ? I think it might be possible if the combination of new body and the original brain makes a suitable and compatible instrument to reflect the conditioned consciousness of Einstein and the being (original Einstein, i.e. bundle of Munn, Buddhi and ahamkaar) has its life still left to be lived on the earth as per its Karma.

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 24 March 2018 at 07:07 AM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?- other vi

    Om

    Namaste Devotee ji.

    Thanks for the explanation. Does it mean that the intellect remains constant and it is only the acquired samskaaras, which decide the output intellect ? The second part i.e. samskaaras led output is understood and known. This decides the state of existence (human or dog or tree, etc) or even (human1 and human2, etc).

    However the question might be towards the absolute intellect. Let me put the thoughts (though still not organized) through a few questions.

    1. Surya Tarpan, and many other rituals relating to surya and light are part of our culture and extensively use by munis and rishis. What might be the reasons ?

    2. We and all living beings are out of the 5 elements. However we are ourselves having gross body, subtle bodies and the RC (reflected consciousness). The first 2 are impacted by the 5 elements. Which ones are impacting at what level (subtle and gross) ?

    3 LiFi - Light Fidelity by which information can be transmitted much faster and better than WiFi - provokes me to think at the above 2 possibilities. Do we still have the full knowledge of the 5 elements and the relationship with us ?

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?- other vi

    Namaste Kallol,

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    Does it mean that the intellect remains constant and it is only the acquired samskaaras, which decide the output intellect ?
    Intellect is same as is available in Prakriti. However, at what intensity it shines in a particular mind-body entity depends largely on entity's own samskaars and to some extent on the environment factors (as environment too is decided largely by the samskaar).

    Let me put the thoughts (though still not organized) through a few questions.

    1. Surya Tarpan, and many other rituals relating to surya and light are part of our culture and extensively use by munis and rishis. What might be the reasons ?
    These rituals are subjects of PurANas and I have not much interest in them. However, I can tell you what I understand : Sun and Fire are denote the same tattvas. There are five elements which are essential for sustaining life : Earth, Water, Fire, Space and Air. Out of these Earth, Space and Air are always available in abundance. However, the Fire / Light / Warmth / Energy from Sun and Water are not always available and certainly not in abundance. So, these two elements i.e. Sun and Water become very very important elements for sustaining life. In fact, these two elements if present in abundance (because all other elements are always present everywhere and all the time) are symbolic of prosperity, abundance of food, growth of life and happiness. Therefore, Water and Sun and their combination became a symbol of prosperous life and happiness.

    As per my studies, offering water as arghya was a ritual which started in Vedic era and that was not limited only to Sun God but even to elderly and wise people who were highly respected. So, offering water to Sun is one way of offering respect to/showing reverence towards Sun God. Moreover, Sun and Water together completely fulfill the requirements of a prosperous and happy life on earth quite well and therefore symbolically offering water to Sun God became a highly revered ritual.

    The above explanation is as per my understanding and studies.

    2. We and all living beings are out of the 5 elements. However we are ourselves having gross body, subtle bodies and the RC (reflected consciousness). The first 2 are impacted by the 5 elements. Which ones are impacting at what level (subtle and gross) ?
    Subtle realms are made of mind-waves. All the Tanmaatras are active in Subtle worlds i.e. Touch, Smell, Sight, Hearing and Taste. But these are all made up of mind-waves and not gross elements. So, in Subtle world, all five elements are absent in gross form. They are present only as mind-waves i.e. you see without light, you hear without ears or vibrations, you taste without any gross food and your tongue etc. Even Space too is just made up of mind-waves in that realm. The Sense Organs too are just within mind and there are no gross organs.

    Within our Gross world i.e. this world, all eight elements of Prakriti are at work.

    3 LiFi - Light Fidelity by which information can be transmitted much faster and better than WiFi - provokes me to think at the above 2 possibilities. Do we still have the full knowledge of the 5 elements and the relationship with us ?
    I couldn't understand this question well enough to answer this.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?- other vi

    Om

    Namaste Devoteeji

    The fact that this earth is out of dust particles churned and out of the gravity pull, created the solid earth and thereafter the complete evolution cycle - from mere non living to highest level - human. What has been the contribution of sunlight ? Merely for plants to produce fruits and have impact on climate ?

    If the present sun is changed by another sun with different light (say slightly off white or the photon intensity / frequency is different) will the evolution remain the same, considering all other factors remain the same ?

    LiFi is a method by which information is transmitted through light by varying the on and off state of the light (LED). It is such a high frequency that for naked eye it will seem fine.

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?- other vi

    Dear Kallol,

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    The fact that this earth is out of dust particles churned and out of the gravity pull, created the solid earth and thereafter the complete evolution cycle - from mere non living to highest level - human. What has been the contribution of sunlight ? Merely for plants to produce fruits and have impact on climate ?

    If the present sun is changed by another sun with different light (say slightly off white or the photon intensity / frequency is different) will the evolution remain the same, considering all other factors remain the same ?
    Life or "existence of a being" comes from Consciousness and all elements of Prakriti too come from the same consciousness. So, support of life comes from Consciousness and not from elements of Prakriti. Elements of Prakriti just help in manifestation of life in so many varied forms and in so many ways. Elements of Prakriti are instruments for manifestation of existence of a being. Let's recapitulate : There is just one Brahman i.e. AtmAn which acts as Pure Consciousness (God i.e. origin and end of all beings and Lord of all) in the third state of Brahman. So, from Consciousness everything comes and into Consciousness everything dissolve. The existence of various elements which make the manifestation of the two worlds and the beings possible, comes from the nature of Consciousness i.e. Prakriti. As I told earlier, even though Earth, Water, Fire, Space and Air in gross form are not present in Subtle world, "being" still exists made up of Munn (Observing and memory storing mind), Buddhi (Intellect) and Ahamkaar (sense of ownership and sense of being a different entity) and reflected consciousness. These elements act in widely varying forms in beings and give rise to the multitude that we see in the world even though they are made of same elements and same reflected consciousness. Moreover, the absence of one or the other element doesn't decide whether being would exist or not. That is how you find beings in deep sea too where there is no earth and no fire / sunlight or air.

    So, the Rules of Prakriti decides how to use the elements and also rules for existence of beings and not elements of Prakriti. Elements of Prakriti are just tools in hands of laws of Prakriti. So, even though in our world that we know, light is a very important element for life to exist, it is not necessary that this element must be present for existence of all life forms in all time and places. In deep sleep, the "Ahamkaar" (I-ness) dissolves but the being still exists and produces "same" "I" when it wakes up from sleep.

    LiFi is a method by which information is transmitted through light by varying the on and off state of the light (LED). It is such a high frequency that for naked eye it will seem fine.
    OK, but this is still a form of energy, right i.e. Fire Element of Prakriti ?

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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