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Thread: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

  1. Smile I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Hello all,

    I have been DEEP into various Vedic scriptures, scouring for ANY and ALL information regarding the shape of our Earth. I have always been a skeptic of anything scientists and NASA have put out regarding our solar system, the universe, and most importantly, our Earth. I am of Indian origin, born and raised in America. So naturally, the education system here pushes out the words of NASA as the true gospel and I was forced to accept this to advance in the system here. I grew up hearing from my father that the moon landing was false and that it was impossible for any humans to go there due to what our scriptures prescribe, so I have always been a skeptic regarding the lunar missions. When the first images of Mars came out in the mid-2000s, I was in junior high school and I recall turning to my friend and saying, "those are CGI images". All of this was WAY before the whole Flat Earth hype that rose up a few years ago.

    When the whole Flat Earth hype started, I was immediately drawn to this notion due to my obscure memories of reading something similar in the 5th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam many years ago. I watched HOURS of videos about Flat Earth on YouTube and was convinced that NASA is deceiving us and that the Earth CANNOT be a globe since we observe it as a flat plane. But before I could jump into any conclusions, I wanted to see what our ancients had to say, as I regard the Vedas as absolute truth and knowledge.

    In the 5th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, there is a very detailed explanation of our universe and the flat earth-disc that we live on. In the Mahabharata, Sanjaya explains Jambudvipa and Bharata Varsha in details to Drthrastra. In the Vayu Purana, Suta gives great details of the universe and our flat earth as well. I am convinced that we live on a flat plane that is a part of a much bigger earth. So-called Hindu scholars have suggested that Jambudvipa and Bharata-Varsha are allegorical languages talking about modern-day India in geographical terms. But that is WRONG. I would like to hear some of your thoughts regarding this, in my opinion, a very important subject.

  2. #2

    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Namaste CitizenOfJambuDvipa ,

    I have followed in parts and been involved in some discussions with Hare Krsna devotees on the round earth flat earth conundrum . My end conclusion is that its a manipulation of the Srimad Bhagavatam to go into topics such as round and flat earth, as I dont think that there is any real mention of it within the same context as its been used, so its best not to link the two and has very little to do with any of dharma traditions. Although cosmology is an essential part of understanding many things if its approached correctly.

    What I consider as the basis of this argument is that it is just another NLP script run through a two way binary learning system that is prominent in modern education, caused to divide people, which is doing a very good job, but thats about all it is and all its effects are.


    Its the same as

    creationism/intelligent design v Big Bang its either one of the other.

    Atheism V Theism again its either one or the other

    Flat earth V Globe Earth again its either one of the other

    These are some examples employed in two way binary systems of education, which is based in literal acceptance of facts, modern literacy and old church dogma are the same thing, promoting that there is only this way and no other way, its either good or bad, your saved or your damned, the earth is flat or round.

    I have been interested in cosmology as per spiritual traditions for a long time and to be fair I am not impressed with either explanation of Round Earth or Flat Earth as being part of any ancient cosmology system.

    If the earth is proved as flat or round does it have any change within ones being, does one have a paradigm shift that gives one more direct personal insight into the nature of reality. It will just be a shift in view for the layman, who are the main participants of this anthropomorphic mundane artificially created debate.

    Vedas are apaurusheya

    Hare Krsna

  3. Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Namaste,

    Although I agree that the shape of the earth doesn't change the spiritual aspect of our being, but I believe it plays a major role in our world today who is so clearly divided into science vs religion. The evidence is the sudden uproar the flat earth topic has caused in the past few years as people are starting to wake up to the deception of science that has hidden God from many people. For many atheists, proving the earth is flat can exponentially alter their views on God as proving the earth flat can prove the existence of God.

    There is much more to the Vedas, of course, but I believe knowing the cosmology is as important to know as it makes you realize how insignificant we are, as well as how grand God's works are.

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    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Vannakkam: I ponder which direction I should sail or walk so that I can fall off.

    Aum

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    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Namaste,

    I would like to see where in Hindu scriptures it is written that earth is flat. This is a new revelation to me !
    In my studies, I have not found in Vedas (including VedAnta) and Bhagwad Gita anything which refute any scientific fact.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Namaste

    The interesting linked artice says

    Although the Bhagavatam doesn’t explicitly describe the Earth as a globe, it does so indirectly. For example, it points out that night prevails diametrically opposite to a point where it is day. Likewise, the sun sets at a point opposite where it rises. Therefore, the Bhagavatam does not present the naive view that the Earth is flat.

    http://www.krishna.com/universe-vedas

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  7. #7

    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Namaste,

    There are a few basic premises that some ISKCON and other Hare Krsna devotees are using to promote that the earth is flat.

    One of the main slokas from Bhagavatam is this one


    SB 5.16.5

    yo vāyaṁ dvīpaḥ kuvalaya-kamala-kośābhyantara-kośo niyuta-yojana-viśālaḥ samavartulo yathā puṣkara-patram.


    Synonyms:
    yaḥ — which; — either; ayam — this; dvīpaḥ — island; kuvalaya — the Bhūloka; kamala-kośa — of the whorl of a lotus flower; abhyantara — inner; kośaḥ — whorl; niyuta-yojana-viśālaḥ — one million yojanas (eight million miles) wide; samavartulaḥ — equally round, or having a length and breadth of the same measurement; yathā — like; puṣkara-patram — a lotus leaf.


    Translation:
    The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.

    They are describing Bhumi as the physical earth in a geographical way, this is the first mistake. Lacks any understanding of what mandalas are or the direction and context of topics describing consciousness within the shastras.

    Its just anti anything science theory and debunking theories, so what ever NASA or science says is ultimately a lie to deceive the public. NASA says the earth is round globe shaped, and ancient cosmology within many traditions have stated the earth is Flat, so it then becomes a debate between religious sources and modern science, its either one or the other. Flat in ancient cosmology does not mean an external geographical physical dimension.

    As far as I understand Vedas describe Bhumi as Bhugol, meaning sphere shaped earth. Sphere is more correctly translated as a plane of consciousness, a loka which is a dimension of consciousness . The problem comes in when Loka or the lokas gets translated as both world and planet.

    Obviously there is a link between the esoteric or subtle and the exoteric manifestation of gross matter. Empirical science is knowledge of that which can be observed with the normal sense facilities and Vedanta is pure study of consciousness on all levels. They are simple two different departments of knowledge that can work together but also need some respect in each field as separate forms of observation, they can co join in certain areas but there is also a time where the two are looking in different directions.

    As Allan Wallace says, Empirical science studies the universe with the outward going telescope and Dharma is studied with the inward going telescope. The tools are very different.

    In Kevatta sutta in the pali Cannons Kevatta the seeker embarks on a universal journey to understand where the elements, earth, water , air and fire begin and end, and travels to see the devas of 33 and then BrahmA to ask these questions, his mode of travel was samadhi by refining the mind and he ended his seeking at
    Tathāgata Brahman who then taught him non localized consciousness anidassana vinnana ~Brahman all pervading consciousness.

    (Some ) Hare Krsna devotees are starting off their theories that all the lokas ( planets) leading upto BrahmA and beyond are outside in the universe but on a subtle plane, and if our minds and senses are purified we can see the external subtle universe with the different planets, and its only because of our limitation of consciousness covered by mind and sense consciousness which acts as the veil that is preventing us from seeing all the lokas just like we can see the Sun and Moon with ordinary sense consciousness, the more our senses are purified the further we can see. The varying vahana when our consciousness is purified to a certain degree will come and collect the sadhaka and transport them externally to the loka, cosmic space travel

    I am not sure where they are at now because the theories are always changing, or desperately trying to find shastric quotes to fit into a flat earth model. I think the latest one is that earth is being carried by Kurma the tortoise, because they are having problems how a flat earth can float in space without gravity........ Just gets more bizzare the deeper they speculate, and miss out on the real dynamic profound cosmology that is being described in Bhagavatam.

    Not all Hare Krsna devotees think like this, there are large numbers either taking sides of NASA and modern science version and large numbers ( who consider themselves radicals) who promote the Flat Earth theory, confused ones in between waiting for someone else to do all the thinking for them and some others who seem to just keep quiet as there is nothing to really refute because its simple not the topic of dharma cosmology or Srimad Bhagavatam.

    Meru is purified maya, maya is waking up and travelling upwards through the conscious abodes.

    Its not an invisible mountain at the North Pole with planets rotating around them, which can only be seen by purifying the mind and sense base consciousness.

    My advise is to go through the slokas very slowly, study the Sanskrit better and include samadhi chitta Bhavana techniques, vipassana and satipathana and other yogic techniques, they promote better subtle quality of mind.

    Hare Krsna

    Here is link to a previous topic refuting hollow earth theory.

    Sudarshan Ji totally nails it.

    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...ry-Part-1-or-3


    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 31 July 2018 at 11:57 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenOfJambuDvipa View Post
    Namaste,

    Although I agree that the shape of the earth doesn't change the spiritual aspect of our being, but I believe it plays a major role in our world today who is so clearly divided into science vs religion. The evidence is the sudden uproar the flat earth topic has caused in the past few years as people are starting to wake up to the deception of science that has hidden God from many people. For many atheists, proving the earth is flat can exponentially alter their views on God as proving the earth flat can prove the existence of God.

    There is much more to the Vedas, of course, but I believe knowing the cosmology is as important to know as it makes you realize how insignificant we are, as well as how grand God's works are.
    Namaste CitizenOfJambuDvipa Ji,


    Our experience of today is an expansion of our experience of yesterday, we are always expanding, life on all levels is always expanding, growing, manifesting, fading and reinventing itself in the cycles of life.

    Brahma is always expanding, both physically in the outside universe and also within the base or substratum in the spiritual dimensions of pure consciousness turiya.

    Nothing is really bound or static, it just appears that way, its always expanding, from birth to old age our lives expand, our perceptions expand, weather in ignorance and or with more enlightened ways, there is no limit to ignorance and there is no limit to enlightenment

    Brahma in the full self realized position is not static, we don’t arrive at realization of brahma and that’s it, even brahman is still expanding without limit, it cant be measured or put into a box.

    Are all scientific theories correct and without fault, of course not due to expansion, now the scientitst have come up against dark energy and dark matter, they have hit a brick wall, now they will expand in their approach to problem solve, so science or real science is not static, always probing, discovering more things, when something is discovered it will throw up something new and then will be explored tested and expanded upon, this will always happen.

    Are there corruptions in science, of course there is, we live in world of duality, but are there honest scientists that are doing their best to discover real object facts, again of course there is, this is also part of the expansions but based on conditions that always will expand and grow and reinvent itself. We can apply this to anything, culture, countries, politics, religion and even our own selfs.

    So its better to be open, if dharma or the essence and quality of phenomenon is always expanding then we also expand with it, allow discoveries and then to let those discoveries expand more into something else, this is the natural continuum of phenomena powered by the ultimate expanding principle turiya which is consciousness, consciousness has no limits, this is my understanding of brahman, not to get stuck in the mud and come to any conclusion but to expand and grow with the essence of all essences and be aligned to the expansion of life and the source of all life Brahman, this is my understanding of non duality, the essence of life and consciousness.

    Both science and religion can be dogmatic, and that’s where the problems comes in, and as said before most people are taught via the two way binary system in both religion and science, its either like this or that, that’s how facts are built up and made solid, this is the problem, it needs a 3rd entry and that is consciousness, so all of science and religion becomes perfected when we include consciousness, but what is consciousness, to know this we have to in some way turn our attention to the advice of rishis who knew perfectly this very subtle expansive subject, but even they did not fully describe it exactly in the texts, as its beyond all description but can still be known, the rishis only gave as best an account as possible, there accounts are perfect but will always include the position of brahma to always expand and grow infinitaley, we have to know it ourself, not just build up clever theories but to understand the dharma or essence which is always leading onwards and growing infinitaley both in phenomenon and that which transcends phenomenon.

    Hare Krsna

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    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: I ponder which direction I should sail or walk so that I can fall off.
    Go West young man!
    But don't expect to fall off the flat or round edge before your negative karma has been burnt off!!

    Pranam.

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    Re: I now undoubtedly accept that Earth is flat (According to Vedas)

    Vannakkam: I'd have to cross the Rockies first. I could join some firefighting team. That would burn off some karma.

    Aum

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