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Thread: Trying to Find the Light Again

  1. #11

    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste Indialover Ji,

    I agree that so many traditions and practices today are influenced by anthropomorphic ( man made religious laws ) and Hinduism and other Dharma traditions are not free from this influence. The Realized or Awakened are beyond this and act more out of compassion and offer guidelines and techniques to transcend the conditions that bind one into dukkha, mental stress and rebirth of these patterns There is a moral construct to realisation but not in the way that the Christian way promotes it mainly out of fear and to control the persons actions by an outside agent and not develop introspect / self awareness which naturally brings more elevated states of mind and natural detachment.

    Hindu scriptures are full of false Christian impressions – esp. sin. Papa is not sin, but always translated so. This is because Christians translated the scriptures respectively Indians learned English from the Christians and carelessly falsified their scriptures and their heritage.
    This is extremely important to understand both for sadhakas and natives, many are unaware of the subtle and gross influences of Christian purity morality and fear based rules which only suppress the problem and distort the meaning of dharma and the teachings of the Awakened.

    We need rules and we need guidelines and constant reminder's of higher ways to live but its how its administered and taught, the difference between religion and dharma is that Dharma ultimately directs one to Self rule and religion is to be controlled by an outside force God or the power of deliverance is in the hand of the priest and his word in some Book. ISKCON is a prime example of to much forced purity ie 4 regulative principles has caused as many problems as it has solved. Although ISKCON is probably a good via medium to real truth for converted Christians to slowly recondition their false ideas of religion, lets hope that process speeds up a bit but in the newer generations of devotees those ideas and practices are not as present as they are with original members who mostly came from Christian Backgrounds, and they have caused massive damage along the way. But these things was not my main reason to post, it was that mind expanding substances taken in the right way was neither illegal or a sin in ancient cultures and due to Christian rule they outlawed this and gave the power of universal laws to man alone. This is causing and will continue to cause problems and bring an adverse reaction in society and by outlawing them only pushes them more underground attracting criminal activity and negativity around them.

    As humans beings we are always searching for the higher taste, for bliss and happiness, a person may even kill another because they are somehow disturbing their level of happiness and way of life, and by getting rid of that person the happiness will be restored. You will never stop people looking for the higher taste, to seek out pleasure happiness and fulfilment. Plus the majority of Christians do not put the same constraint of intoxicating substances on Alcohol and killing and eating animals, which in general causes far more damage than recreational drugs. While there are problems with drugs its mainly because of social exclusion of being made illegal and due to that modern society does not have the right environment to support the awakening that happens with such things as Ganja, DMT and ayahuasca. I am not promoting recreational activity with these substances but there are so many positive awakenings that people have had but it then gets suppressed by this moral human policing by false religious ideas and man made repressive laws.

    The good news is that Christianity is on the decline, and hopefully in a few generations it will be extinct.

    Hare Krsna
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 29 March 2019 at 01:12 AM.

  2. #12
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    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste,

    Moving away from a tradition that a person grew up with and is familiar with, is a daunting task. But at spiritual level, it has to be done at whatever pace the devotee may feel comfortable with, to attain peace of mind. This synthesis business is a transitional phase which has to be transcended for the ultimate ascent.

    Off topic, but,
    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Hindu scriptures are full of false Christian impressions – esp. sin. Papa is not sin, but always translated so. This is because Christians translated the scriptures respectively Indians learned English from the Christians and carelessly falsified their scriptures and their heritage.
    Perhaps 'Hindu scriptures are full of false Christian impressions' is meant to convey 'Translated Hindu scripture are....'
    We Hindus keep repeating the translations handed down to us without realising that many of the things being said are so baseless and far removed from the original texts. And then because of their limited knowledge of the nuances of the English language, there are words/terms/phrases used by Hindus themselves which are disgusting. 'We have to introduce Gaudiya Vaishnavism to Christians by hook or by crook' is one example of an utterly stupid expression used by a learned one.

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    When our sages said that let wisdom come from all directions then let it come from all directions.
    When our sages made such statements, there were 'no other' religions on the scene. There was only one lamp in the world and that was Hinduism. So, I interpret that to mean all schools of thought within Hinduism. But one is free to draw their own conclusions.

    Pranam.

  3. #13
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    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste,
    That's a fair point Beliver. Thanks for that.
    satay

  4. #14

    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste

    'We have to introduce Gaudiya Vaishnavism to Christians by hook or by crook' is one example of an utterly stupid expression used by a learned one.
    The only person that I know who said something along these lines but not exactly as your saying is His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, are you saying that Srila Prabhupada is stupid, that particular comment was in reference to book distribution to the public. Thats a pretty big thing to say and I wonder what is your contribution rather than this false national identity of birth pride. How long will you be in a Indian Body and attached to the soil and if you could answer do you think that these outsiders as you keep mentioning, extending it even to non Indians who practice much deeper than you could ever do, do they have to be born as a Indian Hindu to perfect their spiritual identity, do people then qualify to understand the sages who are totally above these types identities., it reminds of how a Christian would say that only by accepting Christ on the cross will they get salvation, where the Crucifixion of Christ is the killing of the divinity, not the saviour of mankind. You make the term us and them based on being Indian or not. Not all Indian people think like this and the higher their adhikara is the less they think like this, which says something about what your always trying to implant on this forum, causing subtle division with this type of false notion.

    Ive just finished a 4 month yatra in India and spent most of my time with respected naga sadhus and respected members of the Akharas and other very well respected Sadhus and they would not agree with with half of your comments and not surprisingly to me that they much prefer and some quite strongly that they follow Sanatana Dharma and not Hinduism as there is quite a large difference if one could understand what they say at the core. And the highest level of Naga Sadhu that I had the privileged to associate with and do yatra in Ujjain and Sri Omkareshwar do not share the same views as what your saying. This does not dent the love and commitment in the way they serve the people of India with their wisdom.

    The essence of Sanatana Dharma is sama dharshana, to see the One in all residing equally within every single being, so where exactly does this us and them come from.......because it certainly does not come from the revelations of the shastras and the rishis, so whats your source Indian Media I suppose, which is controlled by foreign sources.

    Keep spreading your us and them media based views, which is casing havoc in your own beloved country and culture.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 29 March 2019 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #15
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    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste

    We have to distinguish between religion and metaphysics/mysticism. On the religion level we will always find duality - separation. In my near suorroundings we have Tamil temples - the few North Indians do not enter. We we have a Pakistani mosque - Turkish do not enter. It was endless process to bring katholics and protestants together, called ecumenical movement, even today some refuse to celebrate divine service together.

    This all is overcome on the metaphysical/mystical level, that is beyond duality.

    Thus the light is not today‘s Hinduism, the light is the Veda, the light is Sanatana Dharma. I visited Kumbha Mela this year. Away from the large tents, in hidden corners, in front of the Trishula, in front of smoldering Agni, where no English is spoken, where pure energy flows there is the light … difficult to find nowadays, even in India.

    To come back to the off-topic topic, the influence of Christianity. Most of the Hindus do not realize it, because they read the in their language written scriptures. Only we, who have to switch to a Christian language get alerted. Sin, hell, sacrilege, punishment, terms on which this destructive religion is based, got adopted.

    In my German-Sanskrit dictionary I find the term crucifixion … I am sure in Indian history never anyone was crucifixed. But a Christian cannot live without his crucifixed Jesus whos death is celebrated in two weeks … on easter … a festival for Goddess Ostara in pre-Christian times, a festival of joy, a festival of fertility, with the egg as symbol.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  6. #16
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    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    In my near surroundings we have Tamil temples - the few North Indians do not enter.
    If I understand correctly, you are saying that the North Indians do not enter the Tamil temples in your city. We do not have any acrimony that induces that to happen. So, we do visit each other's temples. The only reason I would not frequent them if I had a choice is because of the language barrier and some traditions. In a Tamil temple, the hymns will be sung in Tamil and traditionally one pays a certain amount to the priest and the priest will say a prayer to the deity on your behalf. However in the North Indian style temple, the hymns will be sung in Hindi, there might be a lecture (pravachan) before the final Aarti and prayers are sung by the devotees themselves without the involvement of the designated priest. It is the comfort level rather than anything else that keeps different ethnic groups go to temples that specialize in their ethnic way of conducting the program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    I visited Kumbha Mela this year. Away from the large tents, in hidden corners, in front of the Trishula, in front of smoldering Agni, where no English is spoken, where pure energy flows there is the light … difficult to find nowadays, even in India.
    I am happy for you that you were able to experience the energy flow and see the light in hidden corners at the Kumbh Mela. It truly is a blessing.

    Pranam.

  7. #17
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    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste Believer

    What I write refers only to my surrounding, all may be different in big cities.

    Most of the Hindus are Tamils from Sri Lanka who came as refugees long ago. They built up a living Hindu community owning temples, full of athmosphere, even in the smallest city, with daily puja in the evening, celebrating all religious festivals. These Tamils are divided into political and non-political Tamils. Both have separate temples.

    There are only few Hindus from India, mostly from Punjab. Long ago I met a group who planned to open a temple, the problem was that this small community could not afford it. I suggested to go to the Tamil temple, their answer was similar to what you wrote. The Krishna temple was also no alternative. I lost the contact, as far as I know meanwhile they own a small room opened some hours on Sundays.

    Sure, language and rituals are different, but before I have nothing … ???

    The other group are Indians who come for a limited time, mostly from Bangalore. They enjoy the Tamil temples - political and non-political – as well as the Krishna temple. Whereas the Tamils do not visit the Krishna temple.

    This is, roughly, the situation as I watched it from outside. Religion is a difficult affair. Preferences and aversions are to be accepted.

    Seen in Bodhgaya long ago … sitting on Hindu’s ground moslems listened to a Tibetean monk.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  8. #18
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    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Hello Everyone,

    Namaskar, Pranam, the divinity in me bows to the divinity in you.

    Thank you all for your wonderful and enlightening responses, they have been very helpful. I recently had a revelation about the experience I originally posted about, but before I share that let me respond with some things.

    First of all, what I took was ayahuasca, and markandeya is right...this is not just "some drug". Actually, it's an ancient tea made my mixing two Amazonian plants together and brewing them. The combination of the plants makes the substance psychoactive when ingested and it brings one into alternate states of consciousness which, can be highly enlightening, if done in the proper set and setting. It has been used by the native tribes of the Amazon basin as a sacrament and medicine since before history. It's use is well documented and it has become increasingly popular in recent times. With that being said, it's not like I randomly took an illegal drug and had a bad experience. This was a ceremony I took part in that was well planned and entirely intentional.

    Also, I would agree with the statement that Christian rules and regulations (and even Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. rules and regulations) can be very limiting and damaging and can lead one to dualistic ways of thinking and can cause serious division among fellow human beings. That was one of the reasons I left my childhood tradition. Now, I have found some rules and regulations to be helpful, but not all... and not in the way that is being conveyed by most religions nowadays (which is often in a hypocritical fashion). All this is to say that, because of past negative past experiences, I have sometimes gone out on a limb and tried radically new and different practices in my search for Truth. This has led me to partake in some entheogenic substances in the past which, for the most part, have been extremely enlightening and uplifting and have led me to see the Light. But what often happens to me is when I initially come back from these experiences I am awakened, refreshed and renewed but over time I begin to descend back into maya again. Why do I descend into maya?

    I descend into maya because I am grasping, I am grasping for something because I think that something (or someone) is going to save me. But am I not responsible for myself? And do I not already wield the power within myself to "save" me from this "bad" thing I'm running from? Yes, in fact I am responsible for myself because I do already wield the power within myself. If I didn't wield the power then I wouldn't be responsible, but I do in fact wield the power. And what is this power that I wield? It's the knowledge that there is in fact nothing to hanker after or to grasp, there's just the IS. It's in the state of the IS, right now, that I truly come into contact with reality. And this reality is nothing more than consciousness. It's within myself alone that all good, bad, pretty, ugly, hot, cold, things arise and fall, but the arising and the falling is just a product of the mind. In reality, there just IS.

    And so I have taken this knowledge and realized that during my ayahuasca trip, the reason I felt scared in the void and lost in hell was because I was catapulted into a place which was devoid of any thing other than consciousness. So, I lost all ties to family, friends, job and all other memories of my life and I was instead left with what felt like emptiness. And this emptiness was a bitter pill to swallow at first because I wanted to fill myself with things, all the things that I felt made up my "who I was" or "what I am", in other words my identity. And it was because I identified with these things, people, places, memories, etc. that I suffered... because once the things were lost then I felt like I was lost. And I felt like I couldn't experience love anymore because there wasn't any thing to love. However, one thing remained throughout the entire experience: consciousness. And as I have begun to dive deeper back into meditational practice, I have realized that's all that there really ever was, is, and ever will be. All else is maya. And so now I see the word emptiness as a positive word rather than a negative word. Because it's in the emptiness (or the devoidness of names and forms) that one sees Truth and Reality. Indeed, one finds the Light there.

    So, to harp on what Believer-ji said:

    This synthesis business is a transitional phase which has to be transcended for the ultimate ascent.
    He is essentially saying that the contrast & comparison of the two religions (through their external or exoteric teachings and presentations) is a temporary phase and has to be transcended or overcome before one can conclusively say that any sort of awakening is happening. Believer-ji couldn't be anymore correct, because these outward forms are just a mirage. Inside lies the Truth. And one can't go inside any of these teachings without first going inside themselves. And how do we go inside ourselves? Well, so far, I have found the tried and true method of meditation to be the best means of doing so, but there are some other ways (partaking in ancient entheogenic substances is one). However, for me, nothing has proven more effective than meditation. But I have changed how I meditate.

    What has changed? Well, I recently begun meditating just to BE. You see, before, I was always meditating on something or someone, but I feel it wasn't a truly effective means of going within because I was in fact, going without. It was only when I rid myself of names and forms that I began to see the Truth. But here's the thing: I have no aversion to names and forms whatsoever. You see, with this new knowledge I can even see Truth through the names and forms as well. So I don't discard names and forms, neither do I necessarily embrace them. They are what they are, they serve their purpose and I can see them through a detached lens. But I am also simultaneously seeing the esoteric Truth of: "I am that I am." And that's it, there just IS.

    So, the ayahuasca and meditation have both showed me the IS, but over the years it has been that immediately following my realization of the IS I run back to maya as quickly as I can. I am not sure why I do that, I think it may be because deep down I am still grasping for something, trying to attain something, trying to do something. It's in this try that I fall because try implies the need to grasp. In reality, there is nothing to attain or grasp, it's all already right here within you. So just be and know. Satchitananda.

    Any enlightening thoughts you have to share are most welcomed and appreciated.

    10,000 pranams,

    LightofOm
    ॐ मृत्युंजयाय रुद्राय नीलकण्ठाय शम्भवे l
    अमृतेशाय शर्वाय महादेवाय ते नम: ll

    Sanātana Dharma Worldwide

  9. #19

    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Namaste LightofOm

    Beautiful post, thank you.

    And so I have taken this knowledge and realized that during my ayahuasca trip, the reason I felt scared in the void and lost in hell was because I was catapulted into a place which was devoid of any thing other than consciousness. So, I lost all ties to family, friends, job and all other memories of my life and I was instead left with what felt like emptiness. And this emptiness was a bitter pill to swallow at first because I wanted to fill myself with things, all the things that I felt made up my "who I was" or "what I am", in other words my identity. And it was because I identified with these things, people, places, memories, etc. that I suffered... because once the things were lost then I felt like I was lost.
    This can happen with meditation too, in practices such as vipassana and states within the yoga process. Shunya is not well very understood and also why there is a push back into the conditions and basic fear of the purified condition of chitta alone.

    Usually in the first states of shunya one see's both the light and liberation of the purified chitta but also can see where everything went wrong and show the horrors if being separated from it and conditioned by outside conditions within the world of the gunas, which create all sorts of conditions good, bad and neutral in the conscious stream, this will explain the hell and bliss in one experience, its normal dont worry and is a good thing to just bring awareness into the nature of the chitta and pure consciousness which is its nature, and how the chitta at these points is being affected by the divinity that is more subtle than the chitta.

    There is a very real reason to come back down to earth and come back to the things that we feel are attachments. There is nothing wrong with being attached to friends, society and family, but as you say its the grasping, when we think we own and control the outside thats where the problems come in and the wrong type of attachment within the grasping process of me and mine causes dukkha or unease in the chitta/mind centre connected to the 5 media senses, sight, sound, taste, touch and smell, rather than let these phenomenon be purified and flowing through chitta without grasping and attachment, through careful observation one will gradually see that the chitta is taking on higher qualities that are above the ordinary states.

    Like you have said so nicely about self responsibility. Actually spiritual realisation is very practical for this world and in higher state one has to come back to this waking state of mind and sense experience in the world of name and form to carry what was found in higher states. Perfection of spiritual life is not just done in the higher states, its also done in the waking states where the knowledge that is attained in higher states has to be practised and perfected in the waking state, this process of being in higher states and then coming back to waking states fully unbinds one brings one to full non duality of both worlds, where the higher meets the lower and is purified and totality unified. Consciousness itself is not bound, samadhis have their own unique domains, myself although its only a word would not use void or empty, these states are just pure consciousness of the original nature of chitta. The chitta is yet to be impregnated by a higher divine force ishwara, or it has been already be established to some degree in the chitta and then its a process of ishwara manifesting through ones being for total purification in the interdependent fields within the waking state, this is were real liberation is gained and true samadhi and non duality and completeness of being becomes established in the chitta the hrid the centre of the Jiva.

    Its important to remember that samadhi sates and the connection to pure consciousness chaitanya are reforming not only the internal quality but also the external quality. While we are dependant on higher states of elevated pure consciousness to transform the quality of being from matter ( being controlled by the gunas ) to Ishwara Guna avatar and the controller of inner nature the pure shiva shakti principle it has ot be replicated in the outside waking state before true release from the limiting conditions within the chitta or mind conscious centre. Chitta is the via medium for both conditioned life and the divine awakened life. Its not about going into abstract high states and just remaining there, there has to be expression of the divine force in the waking ordinary world for the gradually upliftment and purification of the external environment and the cleasning of of the klesha poisons in the chitta that covers the 7 main chakra centres.

    Many people have good experiences in higher states and without them noticing their whole being and life changes, they become vegetarian and instantly lose attraction for eating meat, they becomes more sattvic, which then helps the outer interdependence and outside conditions becomes more purified. Its to share the blessing of these states with the environment around us, it boost the liberation process of that individual and the environment around them. So dont see that its a come down but rather a chance to gradually let go of the former self and start being an expression of the Self.

    Self does not need liberation, its already unbound, as you have seen partially in your visions, and it is that Self responsibility that we surrender to, not the individual will which puts conditions on everything in terms of rewards and attainments and the grasping and owning process which breeds negative attachments.

    I have met amny people who have taken DMT, Mushrooms and ayahuasca and had great conversations with them and aligned everything they experience to vedanta and the awkened( buddha) discoveries. I took mushrooms and LSD in my teens but not since. I would be open to take ayahuasca but only if it came to me naturally and never to seek it out and as you say if it was a traditional ceremony. I have a very good friend in Philippines who does this and they are through this process reviving original native culture of the Philippines and even have Government support, its something extremely profound and sophisticated if done in the right way, sadly doeing these things in the right way is rare, that is why I would not promote it actively. Better to just let things be and spiritual realization is not dependant on these ways alone, there are numerous ways to get awakened if the process is done properly. When I speak to people who doe take them I often say that one or two journeys is enough and there needs to be a length of time for digestion of those experiences, let them slowly unfold and become integrated into ones being, let them slowly manifest, one journey could be enough for one lifetime, but people often take them as a hit or try to recreate a former experience and control that inner environment and to do these things needs guidance from wiser elders.

    When chitta comes back to the awakened state it promotes purity of being and makes the spirtual path a living tradition totally connected to the inner and outside world, this would be the perfection of the human life and one becomes jivamukta and living example of Ishwara and the Self such as previous and current liberated beings who only live in sat truth.

    I dont want to give you to much advice but maybe just jus give some time for digestion and balance and try to act on what the profound states are trying to transform you into.

    These things through typing are very hard to express and I am not doing it very well, but please try to see these things even if it brings storms of unbalanced and confused feelings as the real beginning of your path to full liberation, better this than lazy traditional conditioning which amounts to just superficial but maybe an important aspect of keeping the discoveries of something more deeper and profound in society.

    There is something more I have been wanting to say for sometime but at the moment my samskaras are not good enough or my language skills of how the original atom becomes the via medium of pure free will of the liberated to create different types of being within manifestation in unlimited ways to help this process of liberation still be available in the wider world and provide yukta's and methods in unlimited ways which if followed properly transform from yukta to its original source which is shakti.

    Let us all hang in there because whats is on offer is mind blowingly profound and the realization of True free will and creation in the outer world of the divinity.

    Harih Om
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 31 March 2019 at 08:29 PM.

  10. #20

    Re: Trying to Find the Light Again

    Hare Krsna

    Believer wrote

    'We have to introduce Gaudiya Vaishnavism to Christians by hook or by crook' is one example of an utterly stupid expression used by a learned one.
    I am still waiting for some clarity and proof of this statement. The reason being is to clear this matter up and bring Truth rather than personal opinion.

    Can you provide any proof of where this stupidity came from originally. Srila Prabhupada through his edited works and misrepresentations has been be done on a very gross level to character assassinate not only him but also the movement that he set up, which is flourishing in India and has great benefits in India. There is a huge difference the way East Indians from West Bengal and Odhisa practice and understanding Srila Prabhupadas teachings and practice. Because I find it alarming that you have reduced Srila Prabhupada teachings into stupidity, so maybe you can set the records straight with your highly educated and profound understanding of Hinduism, Gaudia Vaishnavism and Vedanta in general. So lets focus on the roots of stupidity and maybe you can help us in this respcet and bring some real clarity in the public domain.

    You have brought this into the public domain, in private your free to think as you wish, but if you bring statements like this into the public domain which can cause further confusion you have a responsibility to back up your claims with valid resources.

    If you are an authority on ISKCON or the teachings on Gaudia Vaishnavism with sensitive issues concerning West Bengal I think you should explain to us the real Method and how the stupidity came about in the first place.

    You can open another thread and teach us all the true teachings of Gaudia Vaishnavism and the Siddhanta of acintya beda abeda tattva and how it should be spread for the upliftment of a society that has totally lost its way, its your chance to shine.

    Since ISKCON is still growing especially in India and is very active around the world you will be doing a great service.

    While I dont follow ISKCON as an institution I see its importance to regain the original teachings and root out the misunderstanding which are hampering it, there are large amount of devotees that are fighting to reestablish his originals teachings, and they will be very keen on your sharp insights. And although I dont follow exactly the system that Srila Prabhupada set up His Divine Grace is still the beloved Guru of My own beloved Guru HH Bhakti Swarupa Damodara Swami whose essential teachings was communication and synthesis which is much needed for balance.

    Hare Krsna and Pranam
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 01 April 2019 at 08:26 PM.

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