vaishnava sampradaya

[jopmala]

Namaste


It is said that to be a vaishnava one must belong to any one of the four authorized sampradaya. These authorized four sampradaya are :
1 Sri sampradaya : said to have originated from goddess Lakshmi
2 Brahma sampradaya : said to have originated from Lord Brahma
3 Rudra sampradaya : said to have originated from Lord Shiva or Rudra
4 Nimbarka sampradaya : said to have originated from Lord Brahma’s sons , the kumaras of which sanat kumar is one.


The point to be noted here is none of these four sampradaya originated from Krishna or Vishnu directly. Then my question is how the acharayas of these four sampradayas become vaishnava ? if the acharayas of the four sampradays are not worshiper of Krishna or Vishnu themselves directly why should one belong to these sampradaya to become vaishnava. I shall be happy if forum members through some light on this aspect of so called vaishnava sampradaya.

[Indialover]

Namaste jopmala

I dealt with your interesting question and learned a lot. This is what I found out.

Since for Vaishnavas Vishnu is the source of the universe Brahma, His sons and Shiva are a part of Vishnu. Thus they are Vaishnavas.

Vishnu is milk, Shiva is yogurt - milk and yogurt are simultaneously one and different; both are milk, but the yogurt has become changed. Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva and Lord Viṣṇu are separate, but at the same time they are one. The example given in the Brahma-saṁhitā is that milk and yogurt are simultaneously one and different; both are milk, but the yogurt has become changed. In order to achieve real peace, one should see everything and every living entity, including Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva, as nondifferent from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No one is independent. Every one of us is an expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This accounts for unity in diversity. There are diverse manifestations, but, at the same time, they are one in Viṣṇu. Everything is an expansion of Viṣṇu's energy.
https://vaniquotes.org/wiki/In_the_Brahma-samhita_it_is_stated_that_Visnu_is_like_milk,_whereas_Siva_is_like_yogurt

Sri Sampradaya – Ramanuja - Vishishtadvaita.
Origin Vishnu.

Brahma Sampradaya – Madhva - Dvaita.
Lord Brahma is the guru of Narada Muni who is the guru of Vyasadeva, and Vyasadeva is the guru of Madhvacarya.
https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/6/5/22

Rudra Sampradaya - Vishnu Swami – Suddhadvaita.
Sri Vishnuswami following in the footsteps of Sri Rudra, was the worshipper of Sri Panchashya (Manlion).
http://www.4sam.org/rudra.html

Nimbarka Sampradaya – Nimbarka – Dvaitadvaita.
Nimbarka presents himself as a disciple of Narada Muni and says that for a period of his life he lived in Naimisharanya.
http://www.4sam.org/kumara.html

Pranam

[Believer]

Namaste,

Thanks Indialover for doing the research and educating all of us.

Pranam.

[Indialover]

Namaste again … I‘m overrun by passion … there is an endless ocean of information.

Brahma is a Vaishnava

Brahma had experienced the sight of Lord Vishnu sleeping on the back of Ananta Shesha after performing penance for thousands of years. Lord Vishnu pleased with his penance gave to him the basic knowledge of the Veda. Only after getting that knowledge, he commenced his creation.

Kumaras (Nimbarka Sampradaya) are Vaishnavas

Nārāyaṇamukhambhojānmantrastvaṣṭādaśākṣaraḥ|
Āvirbhūtaḥ kumāraistu gṛhītvā nāradāya ca||
– Gopalatapinyupaniṣad of the Atharva Veda.
This holy eighteen-syllabled mantra known as Śrī Gopāla Mantra was given by Lord Vishnu to the Four Kumaras and was, in turn, passed to the disciple of the Kumaras, Narada Muni.
https://vedicfeed.com/children-of-lord-brahma-the-kumaras-and-prajapatis/

Rudra is a Vaishnava

Yes Rudra is a vaishnava. theres a proof from vedas. hers the proof:
asya devasya mILhuSo vayA viSNoreSasya prabhRthe havirbhiH
vide hi rudro rudriyaM mahitvaM yAsiSTaM vartirashvinAvirAvat || RV 7.40.5 ||
With offerings I propitiate the branches of this swift-moving God, the bounteous Viṣṇu.
Hence Rudra gained his Rudra-strength: O Aśvins, ye sought the house that hath celestial viands.
this shows rudra worships vishnu. doesnt it make him as a vaishnava?

https://www.indiadivine.org/content/...heir-forehead/
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv07040.htm

I hope all Hindus appreciate the freedom to interprete the scriptures as they like!


Pranam

[Indialover]

Namaste

Nimbarka and Madhva in Bhavishya Purana

1.5 The Prediction of Nimbarka Acharya
[From the 7th chapter of the Pratisarga Parva.]

The sun god, being pleased by the praise of the demigods, said: By the order of the Lord Krishna, Sudarshana will take birth in the Dvapara-yuga, and will be known as Nimbaditya (Nimbarka). He will be able to remove the declination of religious principles.

Suta Goswami said: Now you hear about the pastimes of the great Nimbarka. Lord Krishna personally ordered him to appear on the auspicious bank of Narmada river, which flows to the southern side of mountain Meru. That state is known as Tailanga, the place used by the devarsis, the godly sages.

Lord Krishna said: "You receive knowledge from devarsi Narada and establish the true principles of religion. You should remain in Mathura, Naimisaranya and Dvaraka."

Lord Sudarshana accepted the order of Lord Krishna sarying, "Yes," and appeared on the earth to fulfill the desires of the devotees. There was a broad-minded holy brahmana living in the auspicious state of Tailanga. His name was Aruna and was well versed in the Vedas and Vedangas. His wife was known as Jayanti. They were living an austere life like the sages. The brilliant luster of Sudarshana suddenly entered in the heart of Jayanti, and by that luster she looked brilliant like the moon. When the time arrived with all auspiciousness and good qualities, in Gaura paksha purnima of Kartika month, Vrisha rasi, the moon in Krittika, the five grahas (planets) situated in higher places, in the evening at the time of sunset, in Masa-lagna, the Lord of the universe (Sudarshana), who engaged the whole universe in Vedic religion, appeared from mother Jayanti (as Nimbarka).

One day Lord Brahma went to Nimbarka’s ashrama just before the sunset and said: O brahmana, I’m very hungry, as long as the sun is in the sky, please give me something to eat. (I will not eat after the sun sets). The brahmana (Nimbarka) gave him food and while he was eating the sun went down. Then the brahmana by his power kept a sudarshana on a nimbe tree. Lord Brahma wondered seeing that sunlike shine and paid his obeisances to the brahmana by lying flat on the ground. Pleased with his austerity Lord Brahma said: Excellent. You will become famous on this earth, and you will be known as Nimbaditya (Nimbarka - One who made the sun appear from a Neem tree).

1.6 The Prediction of Madhva and Sridhara
[From the 7th chapter of the Pratisarga Parva.]

Brihaspati said: Long ago, during the age of treta, O Indra, there was a brahmana named Shakrasharma, in Ayodhya. He worshipped demigods such as the Asvini Kumaras, Rudras, Vasus, and Surya with the mantras mentioned in the Yajur-veda. After worshipping, he satisfied them by offering oblations every day. Thus being pleased with his worship all the 330 million demigods awarded him all desired objects and even the rarest things. By the benediction of the demigods the brahmana lived on this earth for ten-thousand years without getting old and having no disturbance. After leaving his body he become the Sun-god and predominated the sun planet for one hundred thousand years, before going to Brahmaloka. He spent eight thousand celestial years for visiting the higher planets and then returned to the sun planet.

Hearing this, Lord Indra with his sober intelligence began to worship the sun-god along with other demigods in the month of June-July. On the purnima, the full moon day, the sun-god came down to the earth and said to demigods: I will take birth in Kali-yuga in Vrindavana and this brahmana will execute favorable acts for the demigods. He will be born as a son of Madhava, named Madhu and follow the Vedic path.

Suta Gosvami said: Saying this the sun-god created a light from his body and sent it to Vrindavana. Attracting all the irreligious people with pleasing speech he gave them Vaishnavi-shakti or the spiritual energy of Lord Vishnu, the bestower of enjoyment and liberation. Thus he become famous, known as Madhvacarya.

Jiva said: In the age of Dvapara, there was a brahmana named Megha Sharma. He was very much religious, intelligent, learned and a follower of the Vedic path. He was engaged in farming, and with the ten percent profit from farming he was worshipping the demigods every day with devotion. Once there was no rain during the administration of Maharaja Shantanu for five years, but the farm of Megha sharma was about four miles wider and was watered by rain. Naturally the grain-rate increased and Megha sharma became rich by taking advantage of the scarcity. Other people being so distressed took shelter of the king. The king called Megha sharma and said: O great brahmana, I offer my obeisances unto you, please became my Guru and guide us, so that we can be free from the scarcity.

Megha sharma said: when the month of Shravana (July-August) starts, you should call twelve Vedic brahmanas to chant one-hundred thousand times the mantra of the sun-god with the proper mind. Then on the full moon day (purnima) offer one tenth the number of oblations in the sacrificial fire, through the brahmanas. If you could do this as mentioned, you will become free from anxiety. So the king performed accordingly and fed all the brahmanas, then the sun-god being pleased by this poured heavy rain on the earth from all sides. After this king Shantanu, engaged in performing Surya-vrata and become a greatly pious person. Whoever he touched with his hand immediately turned to a young man. By the mercy of the sun-god, Meghasarma lived for five-hundred years, being freed from old age, and then went to sun-planet. After 100,000 years he will attain Brahmaloka. While he was speaking thus, sun-god revealed his identity to Jiva and went to Prayaga (Allahabad) and being in a happy mood he said to the demigods: “In kali-yuga, when the mlecchas will be ruling the kingdom, I will come to Vrindavana and preach for the mission of the Devas."

Suta said: Then the sun-god descended in Vrindavana as a son of Deva-sharma, named Sridhara. He studied Srimad Bhagavatam very deeply and a great commentary on it which is known as Sridhar-bhasya, the commentary of Sridhara.

Pranam

[jopmala]

Namaste jopmala

I dealt with your interesting question and learned a lot. This is what I found out.

Since for Vaishnavas Vishnu is the source of the universe Brahma, His sons and Shiva are a part of Vishnu. Thus they are Vaishnavas.

Vishnu is milk, Shiva is yogurt - milk and yogurt are simultaneously one and different; both are milk, but the yogurt has become changed. Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva and Lord Viṣṇu are separate, but at the same time they are one. The example given in the Brahma-saṁhitā is that milk and yogurt are simultaneously one and different; both are milk, but the yogurt has become changed. In order to achieve real peace, one should see everything and every living entity, including Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva, as nondifferent from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No one is independent. Every one of us is an expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This accounts for unity in diversity. There are diverse manifestations, but, at the same time, they are one in Viṣṇu.
Everything is an expansion of Viṣṇu's energy.
https://vaniquotes.org/wiki/In_the_Brahma-samhita_it_is_stated_that_Visnu_is_like_milk,_whereas_Siva_is_like_yogurt

Sri Sampradaya – Ramanuja - Vishishtadvaita.
Origin Vishnu.

Brahma Sampradaya – Madhva - Dvaita.
Lord Brahma is the guru of Narada Muni who is the guru of Vyasadeva, and Vyasadeva is the guru of Madhvacarya.
https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/6/5/22

Rudra Sampradaya - Vishnu Swami – Suddhadvaita.
Sri Vishnuswami following in the footsteps of Sri Rudra, was the worshipper of Sri Panchashya (Manlion).
http://www.4sam.org/rudra.html

Nimbarka Sampradaya – Nimbarka – Dvaitadvaita.
Nimbarka presents himself as a disciple of Narada Muni and says that for a period of his life he lived in Naimisharanya.
http://www.4sam.org/kumara.html

Pranam

Praam indialover


OK,you are saying that everythihng and every living entity including lord brahma and lord shiva are non different from vishnu. everything is manifestation or expansion of Vishnu . Had this truth been realized by the acharayas of four sampradays , they might not have declared any bar for becoming a vaishnab.

Further , I am surprised to see their desire to have originated from parts like lakshmi brahma rudra etc and not the mula , the root or Vishnu. Here I would like to quote two verses from the Gita. Verse 22 of chapter 9 which says, “ those who worship me alone thinking of none but me, to these steadfast souls I give all they need and preserve what they have “ next verse 23 of chapter 9 which says “ the devotees who worship other gods also worship Me in fact, though not in the right way “.

Therefore should I conclude that since the four sampradays claim to have originated from other god like brahma rudra kumars lakshmi, the acharayas of four sampradays did not follow the right way ? We must pour water in the root of the tree as said in the Bhagabat Puran verse 4.31.14. I think they were so proud of their vaishbism that they declare who ever wants to become a vaishnab, he/she must belong to any one of us.

In this connection I would like to mention that the vaishnabism of chaitanya mahaprabhu does not belong to so called four authorized sampradays because the philosophy of chaitanya is quite different from sampradayas in many ways which he proved while he was touring in the south.

[Indialover]

Namaste jopmala

Not I am saying that everythihng and every living entity including lord Brahma and lord Shiva are non different from Vishnu. Everything is manifestation or expansion of lord Vishnu.

This is common Vaishnava view. For them Vishnu is the source of all, thus, in my opinion, this view is correct.

You try to grasp mysticism by brain. I would not compare Bhagavad Gita with other scriptures. The foundation of a sampradaya is mysticism, the stories around are myths. Bhagavad Gita is wisdom. They need to be seen on their right place in the overall context.

The sampradayas are an effigy of creation, they cover Vishnu, Rudra, Brahma and four of Brahma‘s sons. Why the four Kumaras?

SB 1.3.6 First of all, in the beginning of creation, there were the four unmarried sons of Brahmā (the Kumāras), who, being situated in a vow of celibacy, underwent severe austerities for realization of the Absolute Truth. The creation of the material world is effected, maintained and then again annihilated at certain intervals. So there are different names of the creations in terms of the particular types of Brahmā, the father of the living beings in the creation. The Kumāras, as above mentioned, appeared in the Kaumāra creation of the material world, and to teach us the process of Brahman realization, they underwent a severe type of disciplinary action as bachelors. These Kumāras are empowered incarnations. And before executing the severe type of disciplinary actions, all of them became qualified brāhmaṇas. This example suggests that one must first acquire the qualifications of a brāhmaṇa, not simply by birth but also by quality, and then one can undergo the process of Brahman realization.

Source https://vaniquotes.org/wiki/Four_Kumaras_(BG_and_SB)

By the way, their mystical role should derive from their names, starting all with ‘sana’ … doesn’t it mean eternal?

These were just my personal thoughts on this exciting topic.

Pranam

[jopmala]

Namaste jopmala

Not I am saying that everythihng and every living entity including lord Brahma and lord Shiva are non different from Vishnu. Everything is manifestation or expansion of lord Vishnu.

This is common Vaishnava view. For them Vishnu is the source of all, thus, in my opinion, this view is correct.

You try to grasp mysticism by brain. I would not compare Bhagavad Gita with other scriptures. The foundation of a sampradaya is mysticism, the stories around are myths. Bhagavad Gita is wisdom. They need to be seen on their right place in the overall context.

The sampradayas are an effigy of creation, they cover Vishnu, Rudra, Brahma and four of Brahma‘s sons. Why the four Kumaras?

SB 1.3.6 First of all, in the beginning of creation, there were the four unmarried sons of Brahmā (the Kumāras), who, being situated in a vow of celibacy, underwent severe austerities for realization of the Absolute Truth. The creation of the material world is effected, maintained and then again annihilated at certain intervals. So there are different names of the creations in terms of the particular types of Brahmā, the father of the living beings in the creation. The Kumāras, as above mentioned, appeared in the Kaumāra creation of the material world, and to teach us the process of Brahman realization, they underwent a severe type of disciplinary action as bachelors. These Kumāras are empowered incarnations. And before executing the severe type of disciplinary actions, all of them became qualified brāhmaṇas. This example suggests that one must first acquire the qualifications of a brāhmaṇa, not simply by birth but also by quality, and then one can undergo the process of Brahman realization.

Source https://vaniquotes.org/wiki/Four_Kumaras_(BG_and_SB)

By the way, their mystical role should derive from their names, starting all with ‘sana’ … doesn’t it mean eternal?

These were just my personal thoughts on this exciting topic.

Pranam

Pranam indialover


I think you should not become personal by arguing that I am trying to grasp mysticism by brain. How I want to grasp mysticism is not the issue here. The issue is why we should belong to so called authorized sampradaya if we want to become vaishanava. My simple point is if Vishnu is the source of all and everything is the expansion and manifestation of Vishnu, we are all automatically vaishnava. I don’t have any doubt that the sampradayeek gurus had not realized this simple truth. Actually this truth is theory only and the practical is we are shaiva, we are vaishnava, we are tantrika, we are kali sadhaka, kamakhya sadhaka etc etc and we are different from one another inspite of a common source i.e. Vishnu. This difference is created by the sampradaya where we are enrolled for spiritual learning. We are all bound by the philosophy and parampara of the sampraday we belong to. Actually I am shocked to learn that I shall have to belong to one of the four authorized vaishnav sampradaya if I want to practice vaishnav dharma. I find it quite illogical to accept such a ban and so I wanted to know how other members think about it. For this reason I have posted this.

[oleg.goro]

This is the first independent vaishnava-sampradaya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaikhanasas

Before that, vaishnavism was part of smartism.

[Humbleseeker]

Hare Krishna,

Interesting thread.

I think yes as jopmala indicated everyone is actually a Vaisnava.
But the point made in 4 sampradayas is if one want to learn and cultivate more devotion and regain back to the original natural state . that knowledge is imparted through these 4 main chains.
All the four sampradayas, Krishna is the first teacher who imparts knowledge to Brahma, Shiva, Sri Mahalakshmi and Kumaras. So I am not sure what is ambiguous here?
Also Lord Caitanya's Sampradaya is Classified under Brahma- Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya.. There are 4 main branches and then there are innumerable no of sub branches from there. All branches are valid and authentic. This classification of 4 main principal branches is to help us identify bonafide branch form non bonafide branch.

Thanks