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Thread: How Krishna came to the West

  1. #21

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Namaste Viraja Ji,



    At the heart of the problem it is causing confusion in the outside world You think I am self promoting, not in the slightest, i stand up to real issues, often at great personal expense where i see the effects in the real world and peoples lives then trace them back to the source, if i was self promoting as you are projecting, I would be doing youtube videos, writing books and trying to become a figure in society like mooji and these popular spiritual personalities, not that they are bad but thats just not me, my reality is very different, you may not understand the ways of sadhakas in seva, I am simple a dasa. If I was self promoting I would not be the way I am, i would be just agreeing with the flow of the crowd to be accepted when many a time I alienate myself for the greater cause.

    if anyone would accept or even understand what is being said I would just point them to further their learning with others far more qualified than me and then move on, not attach them to me. Anything that i say which if it ever inspires for people to realise it for themselves, I want or need nothing from anyone, only to be kept in seva and defend each persons level of understanding their own divinity, I think and hope some others will get what Im saying and further build on it according to what inspires them, and these silly posts that have nothing to do with Vedanta is just a medium for expressing Vedanta in the right way and covering key issues, im not bored and just posting cause there is nothing else to do. In terms of giving, well you would need to know me in person to see what has been given without not one ounce of wanting anything in return, I am sure you would be pleasantly surprised, and the the service thats done for projects in India and around the world, and whats been given up most people wouldn't understand because they build their whole life as the aim to acquire as a success in life.

    What you have said about BrahmA is not right according to Vedanta, BrahmA is not an outside God or even an outside projection of an external creator that creates the outside external universe and creating Jivas, its the creative principle of individual consciousness, Vedanta does NOT deal with these things, they are ancient (timeless) sciences on consciousness which has no real physical properties, other than which relates to being, thats why modern science cant understand or measure although everyone us knows we have consciousness, the simplest way to say is that we all have BrahmA as an internal Deity that creates first the conditions of the individual from the level of the pure chitta and creates through the gunas the modes of conscious nature, becomes purified due to the end result which creates conditions of suffering due to separation and then when the principle of separated individual consciousness seeks out Vishnu and wakes up becomes a pure transparent medium of the Divine forces Ishwara, who is also not the creator God in the Monotheistic religions, most illiterates in India know this as first nature, but educated intellectuals of Indian especially Western educated Indians cant grasp it because they too have become conditioned by corrupt educations systems. What you have said is mixing BrahmA with the Monotheistic Theology, and its wrong according to your own traditions, its as simple as that, if your offended by this then get a native to explain it to you, or someone you respect that has this knowledge preserved in his adhikara, so lets hear more Indians getting it right so you can accept based on your idea that the brown people are here to save the world, just after Krsna very cleverly killed millions of people for the last 2000 years, just to promote Indian Superiority, send his representatives and install Krsna as the world Godhead, I have not heard in that in Gita or from any of his sadhus, no matter what translations say and the way people manipulate his teachings within translations.

    Lets put something else straight to clear the record, this is not directed to THE PEOPLE who are known as Christians, its about exposing the falsity of Christian Theology so they wake up to the lie that they have been conditioned to, the positive side effect of this is that we can just get on with being minute attributes of Ishvara and expanding that divine Being for the upliftment of a free thinking society, there are many good Gnostic teachings within that tradition, but that is not necessarily a direct source from Christianity, Just as Sanatana Dharma is not necessarily Hinduism, and talking out against Hinduism is not against Indian people or Sanatana Dharma, its about the foreign construct, the isms that has created division between followers of the sikh dharma, Jain Dharma, Buddha Dharma and the siddhantas, the competition of who is the Supreme Shiva and Visnu, these are all foreign ideas that Indian intellectuals are often misguided into, all of the former I have mentioned are sanatana dharma traditions and Hinduism is where these are divided by so called difference of beliefs and does not exist in sanatana dharma, but they do in Hinduism, and falsely educated Indians are actually sometimes the biggest threat to their own culture but lack self awareness. How many Indians have you seen arguing about their views, just because they come from different aspects of Sanatana Dharma, this is due to the foreign construct of Hinduism.

    Harih Om
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 15 April 2019 at 08:31 AM.

  2. #22
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    MD ji, I used to be a dummy, still cannot get over the feeling completely, but you just do not know, how much your wisdom matters to me. Wish I know you in person. I will try and answer to your above post in a little bit. Thanks.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  3. #23
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    What you have said is mixing BrahmA with the Monotheistic Theology, and its wrong according to your own traditions, its as simple as that, if your offended by this then get a native to explain it to you, or someone you respect that has this knowledge preserved in his adhikara, so lets hear more Indians getting it right so you can accept based on your idea that the brown people are here to save the world, just after Krsna very cleverly killed millions of people for the last 2000 years, just to promote Indian Superiority, send his representatives and install Krsna as the world Godhead, I have not heard in that in Gita or from any of his sadhus, no matter what translations say and the way people manipulate his teachings within translations.

    Lets put something else straight to clear the record, this is not directed to THE PEOPLE who are known as Christians, its about exposing the falsity of Christian Theology so they wake up to the lie that they have been conditioned to, the positive side effect of this is that we can just get on with being minute attributes of Ishvara and expanding that divine Being for the upliftment of a free thinking society, there are many good gnostic teachings within that tradition, but that is not necessarily a direct source from Christianity, Just as Sanatana Dharma is not necessarily Hinduism, and talking out against Hinduism is not against Indian people or Sanatana Dharma, its about the foreign construct, the isms that has created division between followers of the sikh dharma, Jain Dharma, Buddha Dharma and the siddhantas, the comption of who is the Supreme Shiva and Visnu, these are all foriegn ideas that Indian intellectuals are often misguided into, all of the former I have mentioned are sanatana dharma traditions and Hinduism is where these are divided by so called difference of beliefs and does not exist in sanatana dharma, but they do in Hinduism, and falsely educated Indians are actually sometimes the biggest threat to their own culture but lack self awareness. How many Indians have you seen arguing about their views, just because they come from different aspects of Sanatana Dharma, this is due to the foreign construct of Hinduism.

    Harih Om
    What I might have meant earlier by saying Brahma being one with 'monotheistic theology' is that he being the sole-creator, is in addition, endowed with complete freedom to create every species, and of particular interest, the jeevatman, according to his understanding of the rules of creation. But that does not mean the created jeevatman carries any limitations. Brahma has endowed the jeevatman with willpower as well as the indriyas to create karmas as per the jeevatma's will. Along the same standards, the reason for saying krishna sends his troops over for a monotheistic order of Krishna consciousness throughout the world, is not to establish Indian supremacy. But, to take the Brahma-granted willpower few levels up, in enabling the jeevatman practice 9-different forms of Bhakti.

    Just as the 4 blind men story narrates, we all view reality based on our limitations. No one has the potential to see the whole, we all see merely parts, but the beauty is we all could be true! That you are saying Indians are arguing about their views exemplifies this fundamental one-and-yet-diverse phenomenon and shows the capacity of Sanathana Dharma, which is the only place where monotheism could work.

    I hope you will address where I've been misled in understanding your message correctly. Thanks.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  4. #24

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Namaste Viraja Ji,

    Please dont say you used to be a dummy, we are all evolving out of ignorant states and we should be helping one another to further reduce those limited states into something higher, more sacred and unified.

    Thank you for some of your kind comments and forgive me for some of my blunt comments, but there are quite a few issues around these types of talks that I do like to address due to seeing the importance but maybe unskilled to do it with wisdom, plus typing is very mechanical and I am still not very fluid to connect my thoughts with typing. If there is any disagreement its more to do with views.

    No one has the potential to see the whole, we all see merely parts,
    Everyone does have the full potential to see the Whole, and then see how Brahman reflects in the parts, but the seeing is Brahman and what it see's is only its own nature, in one sense nobody can fully see the whole because Brahman is always expanding infinitely and is not an object, but that essence of Brahman is one and undivided in the appearances of parts external created objects, the seeing is Brahman and is whole complete and not divided and of One nature which is Self sufficient within its own Being.

    The practice of sadhanas is to first notice consciously that wholeness in oneself and by that union it naturally expands into seeing within all created objects the same Oneness of Brahman.

    Creation in the Dharma traditions is to see how creation of beings or types of consciousness arise within the chitta or mind states, beings being states of mind, not different jivas. JIvas is one entity, one atomic principle, were the subtle consciousness is acting either through the modes or gunas of nature or through the divine will iccha , to understand what conditions create different states within chitta~conscious centre of the jiva. The picture of Maha vishnu with unlimited universes coming from his pores are these atomic parts, unlimited individual jivas, we as individual consciousness beings, weather a human, animal, plant or insect is the expansion of one of these original atoms the shudastika. Sadhana is to shrink that atom back to its original size via conscious means for it to be reprogrammed by the divine and then can expand back out as a liberated being, that is jivatma and has the same power and potency of ishvara. Brahmans does not mix with matter, its always free, it gets covered.

    There is something far more profound behind this understanding of the original atom that comes from Maha Vishnu in the purified state and I am working on ways to try and at least explain it and simplify to some degree, but its quite difficult due my limitations in language and typing skills. But for a start all these BrahmA's that Create different universes is not the same as outside multiple universes in physics that extend in the outside space that we perceive with the senses, we are all universes but language and perception of universe is causing some key misunderstandings, its not that we are all the external universe, thats is completely impossible and boarding on ridiculous to think so, but some do. Give me more time, I would say 5 or 10 years I will be able to explain these things much clearer, I understand it very clearly but find it hard to write it out.

    So the practice of the conscious sadhanas is self reflective and not so concerned with the outer creation of the physical universe, which both science and religion seems obsessed by and misses the point of the creation in the context of the conscious sciences, I dont think the ancient rishis and awakened spent any great of time trying to understand that in the way modern science or the religions that deals with the outer creation of the universe, what they mean by universe and what the shastras means by universe are two different things, in the outer physical universe they simple didn't know, they just saw the wonder of maya as a principle in nature in conscious terms that reflective the unlimited nature of the Absolute within the field of creation as a way to notice the divine in nature. Modern and scientific methods cut up nature, break it into parts and try to see how the physical elements interact for final manifestation, where as the rishis and awakened see the outside creation as a carrier of a divine Absolute conscious principle that has no parts. It becomes very complicated to mix the the two and explain, but quite easy when one has evolved conscious sadhana practices, which is far more important, all this external empirical explanation should help to educate people in the right way and fight off corruptions in the empirical method and bring one ultimately to doing sadhanas which will eventually promote automatic states guided and empowered by divine conscious subtle forces that have no trace of evil only auspiciousness. Unfortunately we have to engage in these sparring debates to just bring our level of being to a very simplistic but profound state.

    I will attempt to explain the BrahmA principle as conscious creator acting as or within the Chitta the conscious mind in the next post at a later time.

    These are just how I see it and would also be grateful if others can put it into a better form.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 03 April 2019 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post

    I deleted the post ... a simple nice story, told by a Krishna devotee after singing and playing music on a joyful Sunday feast.

    It is degrading what is made of it. Have fun with brain train, but be careful that your head does not shatter.
    Wishing you peace.

    Pranam.

  6. #26
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,



    Wishing you peace.

    Pranam.
    I don't think either of us (me or MDji) is screaming here! And besides, there is a conversation going on which shows at least 2 of us are interested!

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    It wont be the first or last time that SOME,MOST CERTAINLY NOT ALL INDIANS THAT TREAT FOREIGNERS WORSE THAN THEY TREAT DOGS IN THE STREET.
    What do you know! To some Indians, foreign people with their page-length links devoid of explanations make them wiser just as foreign travels make them happier! To them it does not matter even if fellow Indians are treated like dogs, as long as foreign nationals are involved.

    Pranam.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  7. #27

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post


    What do you know! To some Indians, foreign people with their page-length links devoid of explanations make them wiser just as foreign travels make them happier! To them it does not matter even if fellow Indians are treated like dogs, as long as foreign nationals are involved.

    Pranam.

    Could you explain more please, as I am not sure what you saying


    Namaste

    I am certainly not screaming nor do I have anything against Indialover, but what he posts sometimes even if its innocent, is part of the problem and often has bad ramifications in the world. I am quite socially active also off line and meet many people from all walks of life in the street and can see how things influence people and cause division on a day t day basis. I also grew up in areas with high ethic tension, where the British government threw Irish, Jamaicans, East Indians deported from Uganda, Sikhs, Pakistanis all together in one hotspot, that was my introduction to the world and the environment I grew up in and I could tell many stories about very bad accounts of violence between all of them on a daily basis where people were brainwashed by their parents to hate everyone apart from their own people. People started waking up and getting along and then the media created all this man made concocted division again with Muslims, Throw in some old History and it again fuels all the hate and people start fighting again, often with people being killed and hospitalized and whole communities destroyed. When are people going to wake up.

    I recently was at Goverdhan and in India apart from long journeys I travel by walking or hitchiking and meet and talk to people along the way and will sleep at anyones place kind enough to offer me shelter for the night, which is always plenty, I have never been robbed or attacked, I will stop and talk with anyone, rich or poor Hindu or Muslim and I met one very beautiful Muslim man, who said he fears everyday for his life, when his Father and his Hindu neighbours used to get along and help each other, now they are sharpening their knives waiting for the red light to kill every Muslim in sight. Do you really want India to become like Palestine, it wont bring back the original culture or solve any problems or change what happened in the past.

    Like most the good youths in India, they want to be accepted in the international world, they dont want to give up their identity as Hindu or Muslim, they just want to be like everyone else, travel and be friends with everyone, have a nice life and enjoy, these good people are being suppressed by always bringing up old historical accounts, past is past, have some faith that these people will move things forward in a nice way positive, and brainwashing people into Nationalism, which is the first way to start a war has to stop, my experience of India is that they naturally love India, they dont need to be forced into Nationalism to love their own people, culture and country, it comes naturally.

    Dont people realize that the recent attacks in Kashmir is being engineered by secret services from corrupt governments. I am sure the arms dealers made a good profit and brings that area under under stricter control with higher tensions, and its always the innocent public that pays the bills in often the harshest way. While elitist live in the their temporary sick twisted world


    Due to anti West propaganda that Many Indians love to keep going on about in a very unbalanced way, often highlighting the very worst aspects of the West and then comparing it to the highest ideals of India has such a negative impact when they travel to India looking for that idealistic spirituality they often get treated like animals, thinking western people are all unclean, uncultured, all western women are like prostitutes, that they are all rich so its justifiable to rip them off for money. I meet many people from the west or hear from others complete horror stories that happen to them in india, and if it ever happens to Indians in the west there is such a fuss made, but for some reason its ok do what they hell tey like with them when they come to India, Ignorance is ignorance and its neither a western or an eastern thing.

    As I said only some and certainly not all, personally for me I am used to India and can deal with all the extremes and most times have a very good experience and meet some amazing people. When I am India I live and stay much closer to native India and seldom have problems, in fact the total opposite.

    Yes many Western people are often naive to Indians cultural ways, but so are other Indians to each others cultures. I met Two Tamil Yatri's dressed in Black in Ram Jhula and they left very disappointed because nobody ( locals) understood what they were doing and hardly anyone had even heard of Sri Ayyappan, and they were surprised that I knew what they were doing as fellow yatri's, and walked off thanking me but also thinking how can an westerner know more about what they are doing and sri Ayyappan more than the locals.

    A lot of this division is caused online and through the media, which always seems to want cause a bigger division between east and west, when as you say most love to see international people taking interest in their culture and country. Its these extremes and the sources that I oppose, not regular people either from the east and the west.

    I fell out recently with one person because for the last 2 years all he does is demonize the west and turn all the people that follow him against the West, he denied it but and said he is working towards synthesis, His history is aweful, worse than an camels and his pathetic replies saying he is working for my benefit and other westerns which was a total cop out, but even in his comments the majority of his mindless followers who have no ability to think for themselves do not ridicule the problems in the modern world which is not just coming from western sources, they personlaize it and generalise it to all western people, that has a domino effect, it maybe a few hundred that follow him dedicatedly, but that few hundred people will then influence all the people around them, add all the media hype and you left with a serious problem which has serious consequences. Which then amounts to thousands in time and ends up with SOME people in India and Indians in the West thinking that all western people are lower than animals. Where foreigners get treated very harshly and leave not such with a great picture that they had first landed, do you really want that perception of such a beautiful country. This simply has to stop and everyone needs to understand that its protagonist outside sources of common normal people both east and west that want to cause division between us and most people in all places are just simple people who want to just be happy, pay the bills and live in peace and live a relatively simple happy life.

    Whats needed is positive and balanced dialogue and a greater sense of unity without all the bias and it starts with personal responsibility, my suggestion is to not read the media, not give them any notice because they dont fill people with news, they brainwash people into negativity.

    The solution is very simple, be simple. Myself and people like just work towards awakening people and in the background live very simple lives and avoid extremes in materialism where everyone is treated like the donkey dangling the magic carrot on a string just to motivate them. The donkey never really gets the carrot, and even if he does it satisfies his senses for a minute amount of time before he wants another one and becomes a total slave.

    Hare Krsna
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 04 April 2019 at 02:19 AM.

  8. #28
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    MD ji,

    True! Many, many people are swayed by external appearances. Even in this forum, people who are sadhakas are expected by some to prove the might of their intellectual prowess everyday, sadhakas have no such instincts, in fact, they want to do the opposite, stay away and keep quiet and practice sadhana so as to get rid of this bothersome ego further more!

    Ithihasa Ramayana has earned lasting fame until there are Sun and Moon on the sky. Sage Valmiki got the spark of inspiration to write this mahakavya in 1 instant when formerly he did not even know as much as to pronounce 'Rama' properly...

    What started here as a simple 1 line casual reply as grown into a profound conversation. I'll inbox you with my email id. If interested, we can communicate sometimes via that medium.

    I salute your seva, your wide array of experiences and your enriched soul (not to mention the sharp, witty and keen intellect).

    Thanks for a great conversation! __/\__
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  9. #29
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Namaste

    I deleted the post ... a simple nice story, told by a Krishna devotee after singing and playing music on a joyful Sunday feast.

    It is degrading what is made of it. Have fun with brain train, but be careful that your head does not shatter.

    Pranam
    I find this post to be so rude!

    The OP said this -

    Columbus heard Krishna’s flute, thus he set out to find India, to find Him.
    Krishna led him astray to save His Indians from extermination.
    But Krishna became curious of the West and asked Srila Prabhupada zu bring Him there


    What other implication does the above make than saying in plain and simple words, that Krishna and Indians are making it to America these days..... a pure racist connotion!

    And to call it, 'simple, innocent remark of a devotee of Krishna'!!

    And to call people who protest the above notions with haughty exclamations......... who endows a mere poster of links with such an air of authority to ridicule others?!!!

    I wonder.... may be it is time for me to stay away from this forum.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  10. #30

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Namaste Viraja Ji,
    And also I am far from perfect and have much work to do on myself. Thank you so much for your time and patience

    its very nice what you said about quiet sadhakas, I too feel its enough of worldly issues and its time for me to increase my concentration back to more time with sadhanas, which are so beautiful and yield real results that we can share the blessings in life with each other in online communities and more importantly in real life around the ones we see day to day.

    I also came from an amazing 4 month yatra in India, totally mind blowing and was so fortunate to meet so many great sadhus and lovely people and had some amazing experiences in wonderful India, they will always live my heart and I in theirs

    Om Shanti
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 05 April 2019 at 03:52 PM.

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