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Thread: How Krishna came to the West

  1. #31
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    ......many good people do not come here because of him and its not Indialover, even good intelligent hindus with such nice insights that we are denied to hear anymore cause he bullied them so much, one who was particular close to me. And also I am far from perfect and have much work to do on myself. Thank you so much for your time and patience
    Yes, I too have sadly watched so many innocent hearts being shot point-blank by this person. But too chicken to address it up until now. Ah, the cry for peace!
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  2. #32
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    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    I am in deep regret and I apologize for my excitement at this thread, which is supposed to be a mere funny musing on how people see things so very differently.

    I realize it is not a racist connotion but just the OP revealed the beauty of creating a purpose where there was none in the first place.... it gave the opportunity to everyone to realize the hidden potential in every situation.

    I deeply regret my behavior accusing IndiaLover of posting links and such. My contribution to this site, I admit, is just very minimal. After all, I have posted very simple and basic things alone.

    I will observe silence until relevant people will accept my apology. I know not how to make further amends.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  3. #33

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Namaste Viraja Ji,

    I wouldnt worry to much

    May it be a lesson to Indialover to mindlessly repeat things by the power of the limited external word and just copy and paste links without even thinking or going deeper to what is said and the implications it has, . Which is a product of religion and the way modern forms of education install. There are to many things that he posts that totally contradict each other. anyone can do a google search and just post the results.

    The puranas are far from myths, which he wont back down from saying and is more harmful than good. In India people are slowly looking back on the culture as if these stories are not really real, and intellectuals are trying to make them to empirical, these are both outside Influences, and its far from a culture where every Mother wanted their sons to be Like Raja Ram, and the average illiterate are natural Vedantists, all of this profound knowledge is actually very very simple, sometimes far to simple for many to grasp.

    Obviously things have to move with the times but to include things that lay damage right at the heart of dharma and the whole natural psyche of a nation, has to be stood up against or explained in the right way, Indialover is not open to either if he post these things.

    If he is sincere enough he will take it as a lesson and learn and grow, if he is stuck then he wont change and will just defend his comments, and will only react angrily to defend wrong concepts.

    Unfortunately ISKCON is being used by and polluted by to much Christian theology, there are those that are innocently conditioned by their upbringing, which is where the real appeal is directed and are victims which is why most of them felt so dissatisfied with that type of upbringing and are now confused in Krsna consciousness, and those who will purposely manipulate those sentiments and keep that same theology going to keep up external control and people in confusion, these things are real.

    Gaudiya Vaishnava Bhakti is just so profound and so beautiful if its discovered in its original form, it doesnt need these debilitating and limiting conditions to be made into dogmas. The original intent by the wise and enlightened rishis of Bengal used the vaishnava model because it can synthesis the sentiments of the Christian religion and align that with Bhakti, and Vaishnavas lay more emphasis on Bhakti, the founder of this system was Bhaktivinoda Thakur, He was a Shakta, not different to Shiva, maybe only natives understand whats between the lines here. Sri Chaitanya was also initiated in Adi Shankaras Math ( math as in adhikara which is the original meaning,not an institution)and his mood was synthesis, harmony, unity in diversity, that was his shakti.

    These things have to be slowly rooted out and the sincere will slowly give up their previous conditioning and just concentrate on sadhana and the others will try to keep pushing Christian Monotheistic man made dogmas to further keep people stuck in-outward perception that makes them more easy to control. These are very real matters, that have inhibited and suppressed Western Civilisation and is a major threat to the eastern more well preserved traditions, and are naturally more introspective. And there are more waiting for this but are trapped in fear, many devotees were formally in bliss and now in deep negative mental states, because after a certain amount of time the two things dont mix at all , Krsna Consciousness is about improving the quality of universal spirituality and removing all the negative attributes in man made forceful religions and materialism. This in the long term will improve all cultures and gradually shift the power back to the people who all inherently know how to survive and live, rather than be conditioned by institutionalisation, being controlled by external man made forces and systems. The second diseases and probable one of more importance to address is being controlled by governments, politicians and global materialism.

    We need more brave balanced people to root these things out, even face things about our own race and cultures due to being more on the bodily and external appearance only, which are ultimately damaging. We live in a very open international world and are more interdependent in this regard than we ever was before. This knowledge is not based upon the body, even the word jiva has nothing to do with the body, jiva is the sense and mind dynamic.

    like i read some comments that Modi is even showing support for backward illiterates and dalits, what a way to talk about the majority of people and often the minority in terms of learning Modern Education or being gross materialist and mundane intellectuals subconsciously promote western values which they are supposed to be against, these so called backward illiterates, dalits and sudras are still the heart of the country and know the true essence of the culture. Let me tell these so called middle class media driven intellectuals, these backward and dalit people are much closer to shiva than most, and these media driven fanatics are the biggest threat to the sanatana dharma culture and but have no self awareness. For my comments in this regard I will never apologise or feel bad, maybe only the way it comes across.


    So dont feel bad, you just got caught in the crossfire

    If Indialover wants to take this any further, let him talk from his own insights, according with siddhanta without relying on external quotes to do the thinking for him. Otherwise lets give it time to digest, which maybe be better. I am more open to personal insights.

    Hare Krsna
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 06 April 2019 at 01:50 AM.

  4. #34

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Yes, I too have sadly watched so many innocent hearts being shot point-blank by this person. But too chicken to address it up until now. Ah, the cry for peace!
    i really do wish this person will enter an open debate with me, I will be fair and objective, so I can easily point to him that he is actually promoting Hinduism which is killing sanatana dharma, but I fear that all he can do is get quotes from the BBC and India Times, and all his so called intellect is just superficial and brainwashed, his wallet can only get him so far in life, then the elements separate from consciousness and he will be left alone to face up to things

    But I am here waiting for him to back up what he thinks he knows in an open debate, I already gave him one chance, but it seems he prefers to do a drive by shoot in and then hide, its him that is the chicken not you, sorry to offend any chickens, they are more useful.

    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 06 April 2019 at 01:09 AM.

  5. #35

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Namaste Viraja Ji,

    Ithihasa Ramayana has earned lasting fame until there are Sun and Moon on the sky. Sage Valmiki got the spark of inspiration to write this mahakavya in 1 instant when formerly he did not even know as much as to pronounce 'Rama' properly.
    This is such an important point, while its good to learn and memorise the good parts in bhajans, texts and other good sources, the actual method is very simple and we can learn everything we need to know even if we dont build up that type of learning or have the memory power. We dont pass the real tests in life by having outward education exams with a couple of hours to answer questions on texts, in fact it can be a major hindrance or a complete waste of time if approached solely in that way.

    Often times, people are judged if they dont know sanskrit, or the right etymology of sanskrit, or know all the pastimes in ramayana, mahabharata and the others texts, or they are not born in to a brahmin family or a particular part of the world, or some even think born in a womens body is a disqualification. Devotees/sadhakas/practitioners/from heart maybe be outwardly not perfect but non of these are disqualifications for higher knowledge ~ brahmjnana, which cools the heart and opens up the simplicity of profoundness , all it requires is inner sincerity, unwavering devotion, purity of mind, not in a moralistic way but with genuine desire to be connected to a higher source. When that connection happens something else opens up in the citta~chitta conscious mind centre, and then understanding comes and even if one reads just small amounts of the texts it has enough ahara shakti that it fills one chitta, conscious mind centre with divyajnana divine awareness.

    The aggi-vacchagotta sutta is very important, its not a religious buddhism text, its the essence that Brahma cannot be approached by intelllect and speculation, or the dristi~ sight in general, because its beyond dristii and brahma is not an object. I discovered that Aham Brahmasmi is not to realize any particular thing as a soul or as an object Aham in ancient vak was not limited to individual, and Brahmasmi was way, a principle a true code of being, not something to realise on the outside but the deepest interior of ones being which is not different from that which is the deepest essence and being residing in all created forms but has no form that is created.

    Even if one has the natural quality to study it will not bear fruit unless there is active chitta~citta bhavana, culturing the citta through ways give by the previous enlightened, who in real life are very simple hearted and just want to serve, shraddha or faith is not an outward perception but a curing of the heart centre, thats why its sometimes so simple that it often gets missed.

    Outside of all the worldly concerns where we try to fight for justice, freedom and equality, the inner essence is simplicity, being simple and then the profound opens by its own means, the grips that bond us in the outer nature become lessened, there is more internal space and freedom, doesnt matter if one is rich or poor, educated with letters or numbers. This is the inner essence that many externalist are just not aware of, if one then opens this simple way then everything becomes profound.

    Most the sanskrit texts are not usually written by the people who had the realisations of the divine, they were not even spoken always in whats classical sanskirt, they are realised in sandhya or sandhi, avadhutas are often backwards like jad bharata, apparently Paramhamsa Nityananda who was an avadhuta would speak and nobody wold understand what he said immediately, he was absorbed in the middle way~madhyamika in Buddhi, which is not the empirical intellect, it cant be communicated through the usual methods of empirical expression and can often take a long time to be translated and only done by qualified devotees that these people inspire. The methods also to reach these states are also quite simple, the simplicity is often ignored or seen as to simple and claim it cant be that simple.

    There is one nice story of Ajahn Chah when he came to England, he addressed the English and said that many of you are very intelligent but also quite complicated, if I was in Thailand my message to Thais is very simple, I always remind them to just keep letting go, but in England the people want very intellectual and complex ways to explain the Buddhist way, so I came here to give you Ajahn Sumedho ( an American Monk ) ..... whose teachings are actually very profound, he plays an important role for many at deconditioning the conceptual mind, his retreats are very good, although he spend most his time now in Thailand and is a very well respected and a great human being.

    There is a beautiful story about Shantidev who slept and ate all day, would not take part in the studies or the outward practices and was ridiculed for years by the externalists, and his guru knew his was liberated, the others wanted him out, he was then given the challenge to prove his worth or get out, and he spoke the way of the bodhisattva which remains a classic and a true guide for chittabhavana.

    Sri Chaitanya once saw a brahmin reading Bhagavad Gita upside down and was always in tears and he approached him to ask why he was crying reading it upside down, and he replied that when he saw Bhagavan Krsna being the driver of Arjuna's chariot it made him weep with love for Krsna. These are not ordinary sentiments by backward illiterates that these mundane intellectuals seem to want to say, these are the jewels of this culture, not these outward judging materialists who are corrupted by mass of information and false certificates with silly letters after their names.

    Jai Sri Krsna
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 06 April 2019 at 06:05 AM.

  6. #36

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Namaste

    Stumbled upon this morning, which seems to capitulate some of the points mentioned above and throw a bit more light on the subject, by Dr David Frawley, above mosts budget unfortunately, but if one only opens their eyes by karuna within sadhana , true heart opens without sentiment and over identification of bodily consciousness, it becomes clearly obvious whats going on.

    A short history lesson. When the Monotheistic Materialists were plotting global rule,as the saying goes, all roads lead to Rome. Christopher Columbus was given the western regions and India was preserved for the British rulers ( which were not always British), its a elitists regime, it was part of a bigger plan.

    If one knows anything about ancient Maps these geographical locations were already known via age old trading routes.

    https://www.amazon.in/Arise-Arjuna-H...N3sQTOGfJSeaQw

  7. #37

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Double post deleted.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 04 May 2019 at 10:55 PM.

  8. #38

    Re: How Krishna came to the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Namaste Jaynarayan

    All what happens in the universe is the will of the Almighty … Krishna.

    Krishna says in Bhagaved Gita

    10.34: I am the all-devouring Death, and I am the origin of those things that are yet to be. Amongst feminine qualities I am fame, prosperity, fine speech, memory, intelligence, courage, and forgiveness.

    11.32: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist.

    11.33: Therefore, arise and attain honor! Conquer your foes and enjoy prosperous rulership. These warriors stand already slain by Me, and you will only be an instrument of My work, O expert archer.

    BG 11.34: Dronacharya, Bhishma, Jayadratha, Karna, and other brave warriors have already been killed by Me. So slay them without being disturbed.

    Arjuna was His instrument … why should not Columbus have been His instrument alike? His next instrument was Prabhupada. At the end we are all His instruments in His marvelous cosmic play, only allowed to see the manifest part, not allowed to see behind the curtain.

    BG 2.28: O scion of Bharat, all created beings are unmanifest before birth, manifest in life, and again unmanifest on death. So why grieve?

    Thus do not grieve too. All is right the way it is.

    Pranam
    Sri Krsna has nothing to with the mundane religious teaching of Church based Christianity and their theological preaching and converting. There is practically no relation to the man made idea of this almighty God, to the inner discovery of Ishvara and Bhagavan, practically no alignment at all, only via some diplomacy in language and basic concepts of a Supreme Being.

    His iccha is not that of willing evil or the savage acts of columbus, who was gold greedy to fund more invasions of Christian based rule, across the Globe, who have been massacring and destroying all naturally arsing forms of spirituality around the world, where if their views are challenged go into uncontrolled fits if there mundane sentimental ideas are not accepted, no strength of mind or logic and concentration powers of a goldfish

    Krsna consciousness does not support war and crime.

    Sri Krsna is Bhagavan, The word bhagavān is explained thus by Parāśara Muni: One who is full in six opulences, who has full strength, full fame, wealth, knowledge, beauty and renunciation, is Bhagavān

    Bhagavān is non different to Ishwara, Ishwara is vishwarupa

    vi~inner
    isha~saguna Brahman with all divine opulence and attributes of Bhagavan
    Rupa~ His divine form

    He rules the inner cosmos and empowers his devotees to go against man made religions, and intellectual ideas based on bodily concepts and desires, materialistic politics, distortion in the scientific enquiry and Christianity who model their faith on a human being battered and nailed to a cross, what about all the wood, think of all the trees , and forced belief and emotional control based on fear, and is a warring religion, based on principles of Jihad, this has nothing to do with Krsna Consciousness. As Srila Prabhupada said, Christianity has failed the people, and him and other sadhus have offered a way out, to keep holding onto that former man made theology is detrimental both to ones own sadhana and a disruption in the dharma traditions, which are many as we can see from all the translated divisions, which again are based on not accepting the Monotheistic Godhead Ruler of the Universe, and have doe untold damage to communities up to this present day.

    There is not one naturally occurring recognised Christian sadhu anywhere in Asia, they are all imported, or self installed.

    Sure there is some attempt at synthesis, but due to veda being the nature of brahmavada, which can take a form for a limited amount or time and then grow out of that from, to something greater more expansive, common synthesis is supposed to expand and shatter all man made ideas, such as Christianity, and there mundane morality and beliefs, such as all evil is somehow connected and controlled by the divinities of the dharma traditions., this simple does not apply.

    Cultural baggage" is an important contaminant to be aware of

    Practically all Church based ideology is man made, mind is full of desires, even the concept of charity is a system of control and part invasion policy to establish rule, same as sin is to pap, to hold someone under sin is to control their emotions, Sant as saint, to quote a perfect example from Thomas Merton

    Even saints cannot live with saints on this earth without some anguish.” ~ Thomas Merton refering to the killing of previous sadhus by Christian missionaries, real sadhus can live in total harmony with other real sadhus.

    Kirpa (Grace) Narak (hell) Swarga (heaven) do not hold the same meaning in the dharma traditions as they do with man made oppressive religions such a Christianity

    citta the main central particle of consciousness is whats bound and overcome by desires, ravana man made desires steal citta for his own pleasure. Raja Ram is not controlling this, Ravana did shiva puja for his own desires, there are many hidden tattvas in this, that apply today to mans use of religion for worldly powers. Citta is the minute atom molecule more subtle by a billion times of any physical property, thats a very large difference measurement, inconceivable, but also has much more power, because it breaks dependency on outside phenomenon, Christian Religion breeds outside dependency, prayer to an outside force is also not much mentioned in any shastra. Arjuna goes within, not without to seek Sri Krsna, who is antariyami, inner controller as paramatma.

    So to say all is good in the outside world is not a dharmic thought. If one agrees or not is just subjective perception and will have little to do with the rishis of the Upanishads and all the naturally arising dharma sadhus

    Basically Church based Christianity is a plague.

    Hare Krsna
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 05 May 2019 at 12:43 AM.

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