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Thread: New questions?

  1. Re: New questions?

    You have been hateful and harassing to me.

    Gam Gam Ganapati
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXQjrK1bwQ

    Dattavani.org
    https://dattavani.org/pravachana-malika/datta-vaakya/

  2. #42

    Re: New questions?

    Considering all your comments were removed and your comments were put on hold, its about time you showed some honesty. But I think self honesty is not in your dna.

    But I am glad you have started your own thread. Maybe now this thread can develop

    Good luck with that.

  3. Re: New questions?

    Stop with the hate --

    You have been very hateful and unrelentingly hostile, and you are not showing any signs of stopping. You have been aggressive, personal and extremely rude, for absolutely no reason.

    Stop.

    I have done nothing to do this and the endless, eternal and baseless aggression and hostility must stop.
    Gam Gam Ganapati
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXQjrK1bwQ

    Dattavani.org
    https://dattavani.org/pravachana-malika/datta-vaakya/

  4. #44

    Re: New questions?

    Hare Krishna timetraveler and markandeya 108 dasa

    I think we have to go "back" to this:

    https://iskcondesiretree.com/profile...romapada-swami


    But not all of them go back to Godhead. Even Lord Brahma himself doesn’t always go back to Godhead. In the 9th canto Srila Prabhupada says: “Both the Lord and the living entity, being qualitatively spirit soul, have the tendency for peaceful enjoyment, but when the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead unfortunately wants to enjoy independently, without Krsna, he is put into the material world, where he begins his life as Brahma and is gradually degraded to the status of an ant or a worm in stool.” (SB 9.24.58 ppt) So it appears we have all been Brahmas, but have fallen down.

    How can we all begin as Brahma? Lets say 10 soul falls, then, according to this, there would be 10 Brahmas. Each with their own universe to govern. But it would be an empty universe = there would only be Brahma because the other souls or Brahmas are in their own universe facing the same problem. Or am I misunderstanding what is being said? What do they mean when they say: "he begins his life as Brahma"?

    This seems to be another answer than the one I got from krishna.com? I am confused.

  5. #45

    Re: New questions?

    Hare Krsna,

    But not all of them go back to Godhead. Even Lord Brahma himself doesn’t always go back to Godhead. In the 9th canto Srila Prabhupada says: “Both the Lord and the living entity, being qualitatively spirit soul, have the tendency for peaceful enjoyment, but when the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead unfortunately wants to enjoy independently, without Krsna, he is put into the material world, where he begins his life as Brahma and is gradually degraded to the status of an ant or a worm in stool.” (SB 9.24.58 ppt) So it appears we have all been Brahmas, but have fallen down.



    As said previously BrahmA is citta or the mind the original jiva, creation in the dharma traditions comes from the mind, not from an outer force a big bang in science or an external creator God controlling all living beings, both of these theories ultimately deny free will , which is quite fashionable at the moment and are man made ideas, and subsequently quite dangerous the way its being propagated, mind creates either conditions that bind it to material existence or mind becomes liberated, you can see some slokas in Bhagavad Gita. 6.6 and 6.7 .

    BrahmA the original Jiva , atomic individual consciousness is described as marginal, it can go up or down or be liberated, on the gross level its said the jiva atomic soul transmigrates from one body to another, on the more subtle level mind states are in constant flux, enjoying or suffering the results of material nature which is always unsteady and uncertain and based on conditions.

    What is the worm in the stool, different analogies are given by Srila Prabhupada which describe states of consciousness within the human being, a worm in the stool is when consciousness identifies with the body, bodily identification is what causes all the suffering, exploitation and division in the world ( although SOME think they are excluded from this, which is just another form of elitism) .

    The worm is the mind consciousness trapped in bodily
    identifications, creating identifications such as I belong to a certain race, caste, country, religion and creed, this creates me and you, us and them, self and other, higher and lower, complete opposite direction, and is the lowest state. bodily identification which the worm ( mind) moves around in is of two kinds, gross and subtle, gross is the external body which the condition soul decorates, the external body is made up of gross elements, skin, bones , veins, blood, sweat, mucus, urine and excrement, in total 32 parts of the body are contemplated and rejected as gross. The worm type consciousness moves around in this body and thinks it is very nice, adorns it and works hard for it and tries to attract other bodies it likes and get rid of the ones its dislikes and exploits the ones it can lord over for its own profits, if one is attached to the bodily identification then the jiva is like a worm in the stool, to be free from the body idea is first part of liberation.

    Subtle stool or mental defilement kilesha, is I am from this country, this race, this creed, religion, caste, as different and better than the other types of identification of country, race, creed, religion, caste, i believe in this ism or that ism which is better and different from other isms created from other worms ( limited minds states) attached to their own forms of mental defilement and creates divisions and the materialists begins their tactics of divide and rule, gain and fight for supremacy, for name fame at the expense of others, this is the worm in stool consciousness and are insignificant as ants, they try to make Brahman in his divine aspects their servant for their material desires and Lord over material nature as superior beings and blame Brahman for injustice in the world as his creation and divine plan, like the poor and suffering is their own karma and is predestined, when it is the desires of the mind that creates injustice, division and materialism.

    To see the causes of bondage is the first stage, this takes honesty, which is a rare commodity, due to attachment........


    When BrahmA wakes up from his delusion of stoolism and see's that he is creating only suffering and division, with lies and deception in the world he then starts to inquire what is the real purpose of life, beyond the body idea and seeks refuge in Brahman. By association of Brahman, Brahman descends into the mind and BrahmA then is the medium for Brahman or the Absolute to enter in the cosmic being of his creation, and destroy all states of beings good and bad and thus gradually transforms as non different from Brahman.






    SB 3.12.48


    śabda-brahmātmanas tasya
     vyaktāvyaktātmanaḥ paraḥ
    brahmāvabhāti vitato
     nānā-śakty-upabṛṁhitaḥ


    Synonyms:

    śabda-brahma — transcendental sound; ātmanaḥ — of the Supreme Lord; tasya — His; vyakta — manifested; avyakta-ātmanaḥ — of the unmanifested; paraḥ — transcendental; brahmā — the Absolute; avabhāti — completely manifested; vitataḥ — distributing; nānā — multifarious; śakti — energies; upabṛṁhitaḥ — invested with.


    Translation:
    Brahmā is the personal representation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the source of transcendental sound and is therefore above the conception of manifested and unmanifested. Brahmā is the complete form of the Absolute Truth and is invested with multifarious energies.



    As Srila Prabhupada said keep the iron rod in the fire long enough and the iron rode becomes fire, this is acintya beda abeda tattva of Bhagavata Dharma which is an advaita tradition in it purest form,in the human condition. Iskcon while it has many good parts was an experiment and a modification, and thats why there is some confusion in understanding krsna consciousness and cosmology. And those that come from monotheistic Christian backgrounds just have sever problems to understand cosmology of Vedanta and dharma traditions.

    This Chapter deals with mostly what I have been posting, throughout this thread.



    https://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/3/12









    Personally i dont think the translations in this text is very good, it can provide more problems that solve, but it can also provide a platform for deeper enquiry, and is where others have a problem with the general institutional iskcon translations, and many problems today is that everything is taken literally, people with low discernment powers can only see in black and white, this is a big problem in todays world or programmed brainwashed cittas by external media and authority, religious and modern materialistic education and conditioning, its seems among so called educated people this problem of two way
    bilateral brainwashing is very deep.






    As said before universe in the Dharma version is not the outside universe, it is ontological, we all have a unique individual design slightly different from each other, our own puzzle, what we observe outside is just matter, product of mind in its lowest form, body is a product of mind, and is manifesting as the last product of mind, before the last product of manifestation of mind or the present moment awareness of the external subtle and gross there are subtle causes. Dharma Shastras and Sutras deal only with the subtle causes or the root cause of both bondage and liberation where BrahmA plays a central role, central to BrahmA in his waking up is paramatma/antariyami~indweller and his unlimited forms and qualities, which are always transcendent nirguna and beyond all duality.

    I am confused


    The texts and teachings are not meant to confuse, if you feel confused dont think it about it to much, in time things will reveal themselves in their own time or when you are ready, i added a few things which I find important to the discussion at the moment in the current discussion on cosmology.


    Many things I have not understood in the past and still do not understand, but it never bothers me, in fact it only increases investigation, i dont even feel rushed to understand, its best just to put any confusion on the shelf, its not a mental exercise to work with like a subject in modern education, its a discovery, BrahmA has two cycles when he is waking up, day and night sun and moon, sun brings instant insight and moon things are cooled down and work and digest at slower pace, when something is realised in oneself then that is the true discovery. And lets not forget this is the highest form of understanding, higher than any science, sociology, psychology, religion, it has no comparison.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 17 July 2019 at 05:10 AM.

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