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Thread: Does God really punish

  1. #1

    Does God really punish

    Does God really punishes or take revenge from humans? For eg- If someone asked something from God and took a vow that if he gets that thing, he will offer something to God. He gets that thing but he did not fulfil his vow to God. Now..will God punish really him or take revenge to him?

  2. #2

    Re: Does God really punish

    Namaste,

    Interesting and good question.

    Generally all beings have to follow their karma. The answer is usually given, even if one is a saint - one still follows karma.

    I.e., a good action will produce a good result, and likewise for harmful actions.

    However, God is the most forgiving . Ananta Bhava . . .

    SacChidAnanda, is God's nature. Blissful.

    Prem or love, is inherent in all...

    Sathya Sai's discourses are illuminating on the matter.

    (https://www.sathyasai.org/discour/2005/titles2005.html)

    Sri Swamiji once said, if you want to have God's energy, you have to think of God 24 hours a day. To have God's blessings fully and completely, you have to think of God always, and then you will.

    And so this means being very awake

    And peaceful, deeply meditating.

    And active, walking and chanting.

    This brings quickest progress..

    Pranam
    Gam Gam Ganapati
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXQjrK1bwQ

    Dattavani.org
    https://dattavani.org/pravachana-malika/datta-vaakya/

  3. #3

    Re: Does God really punish

    Hi,
    What will he the punishment for this scenario- If someone asked something from God and took a vow that if he gets that thing, he will offer something to God. He gets that thing but he did not fulfil his vow to God. What punishment will he get or what karma punishment will he has to face?

  4. #4

    Re: Does God really punish

    Namaste,

    The overall karma of the person would have to be foremost. And also, what were their intentions, and so forth.

    But let's look at the process. Normally, in almost all cases, almost always, the sacrifice is done before someone asks God for something.

    I'm doing a very poor job of expressing ...

    Let me jus let give some points:

    Whatever we get we should use for God.

    Asking, praying is really using your own energy, to try to affect the world.

    The most important thing is devoting ourselves to God, and when we do that, all good things happen.

    Of all things, in the whole universe, nothing satisfies the soul (we ourselves) as much as God's love.

    It is not wrong to ask for love and devotion.

    Purity, health, strength,. . . Wisdom ...

    All of these are good, and this itself is a meritorious prayer.

    Pranam.
    Gam Gam Ganapati
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXQjrK1bwQ

    Dattavani.org
    https://dattavani.org/pravachana-malika/datta-vaakya/

  5. #5

    Re: Does God really punish

    Namaste,

    I would say this as well; nothing God gives comes with strings attached. If we make a vow to complete some austerity or mantras, that's a separate issue, even if we have them connected in our mind.

    If you do break a vow of that kind, it isn't helpful to feel despair over it - simply begin from there.

    Dattatreya comes immediately, when we think of him. In the Datta Stavam it describes this.

    Now there is a further thought. -- when we think of God, even for a moment, this is a very good thing.

    I.e., the act of asking requires some meditation, and this itself is meritorious, it gives benefit. Nama Smarana -- remembering God's name -- is the path and the goal.

    It's all to get to get to the point, when we have perfect remembrance of God. This simple goal has an entire system around it. -- Yoga, meditation, and all of the practices lead to it.

    Nama Smarana is basically the most important thing, but all the system of yoga is there to enable it to grow. Divya Nama Sankirtana, Yoga, even giving to those who need it.

    Everything done in goodness helps. Annadana, which means giving food -- is a very important and good activity.

    Sri Ramana Maharishi for instance always practiced this completely. When someone, anyone, visited His ashrama, the very first thing before anything was to give prasad (food first offered to God), and this was the most important and first thing.

    So it's good to practice in the home and outside.
    Gam Gam Ganapati
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXQjrK1bwQ

    Dattavani.org
    https://dattavani.org/pravachana-malika/datta-vaakya/

  6. #6

    Re: Does God really punish

    Sir I still did not get the answer of this scenario- If someone asked something from God and took a vow that if he gets that thing, he will offer something to God. He gets that thing but he did not fulfil his vow to God. What punishment will he get or what karma punishment will he has to face?

  7. #7

    Re: Does God really punish

    Namaste,

    I've thought about this a lot but haven't been able to write til now.

    Believe me I've given it a lot of thought so please do think I'm passing over your question.

    But first, we have to say, and this had never been far from the start, that in many cases God does punish. This is unilaterally witnessed in thousands of shastras.

    Of course Hiranyakasipu and Nrsimhadeva come to mind, then there are countless other examples of this, in the Puranas, in the Ramayana, etc. Indeed, it is one of the main purposes of incarnating.

    Krishna, in the Mahabharata, advises the Pandavas, and does not pull a bow and arrow Himself; however he had countless times fought demons before this, such as Aghasura and Bakasura, etc.

    However this leads us to the second point, that God does not usually punish devotees.

    Bhagavatam has this verse (1.5.19)

    _My dear Vyāsa, even though a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa sometimes falls down somehow or other, he certainly does not undergo material existence like others [fruitive workers, etc.] because a person who has once relished the taste of the lotus feet of the Lord can do nothing but remember that ecstasy again and again._

    Gita says God would not usually do this. However, being limitless, surely it happens sometimes.

    But if a person does austerity and then really does evil, then definitely they are eligible for punishment.

    Mostly this has to do with conflicts between people.

    How that compares with breaking a vow to God, I cannot say.

    But as one last note, I also did want to say that I do not recall any case in the Bhagavatam where the boon came before the austerity. One always does tapas - penance - before asking for a boon.

    This is as thorough and best an explanation I can do, (not saying it's good.)

    Hopefully it was of some small good.

    At least I hope these are decent on the general topic, and you can have good scriptures to study from.
    Last edited by timetraveler; 08 October 2019 at 09:07 PM.
    Gam Gam Ganapati
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXQjrK1bwQ

    Dattavani.org
    https://dattavani.org/pravachana-malika/datta-vaakya/

  8. #8
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    Re: Does God really punish

    Namaste,

    If I may interject and provide a viewpoint,
    In Hinduism, God set in motion this universe and established the law of karma. So, every action good or bad will meet its karmic reaction either on the same day, or in that week/year/lifetime or in one of the other lifetimes. God is not sitting there watching your every move. It is all karmic reactions. Sometimes we bring our previous conditioning about God being loving/vengeful/kind/monitor of our activities and apply it to Hinduism. If whatever happens is the result of your karmic reactions, why drag God into the equation?

    Quote Originally Posted by rv2789 View Post
    If someone asked something from God and took a vow that if he gets that thing, he will offer something to God. He gets that thing but he did not fulfil his vow to God. What punishment will he get or what karma punishment will he has to face?
    Transactional business dealings are limited to the material world. Relationship with the Divine is for spiritual progress. At higher level, it appears that we should offer our love and devotion without the expectation of reward. In real life we do lower ourselves and try to make contracts with the Divine, which basically is making a contract with our own consciousness. We may or may not reach the desired situation per our karma. If we do and then break the contract, we would have skipped the penance or extra devotion. There will be a guilt in our consciousness. That itself will be a punishment or there might be some other karmic reaction somewhere along the line. Why is the focus on punishment rather than on devotion? How could we mortals imagine or define for you what precisely that punishment will be? Karmic reactions don't have to be one for one; it could be one big boulder for cumulative negatives.

    Please take this response as one opinion to ponder over and not as gospel truth, which i am not capable of providing.

    Peace.

    Pranam.

  9. #9

    Re: Does God really punish

    Hari Hara

    Namaste dear Believer, wonderful and pleasant to see your beautiful reply. I am really glad to see and it's well written and enhancing towards the topics.

    Above all, I would say the aspect of positivity, most important.

    As you say we should focus our thoughts towards the divine.

    But also, we can learn about all aspects of spiritual life. And how does God relate to us when we misstep, good topic.

    To learn about it we can look to shastras, such as the Gita or Ramayana, also there is a wealth of saint-poets or such, like Tyagaraja, Namadev, Ramprasad, Kabir, etc.

    For instance,

    'What good fortune is this? You are my refuge. Who is your equal in the three worlds?

    You came near me talked to me with your charming face and alleviated me of all my worries.

    Long ago, you did the same by protecting all the sages who realised you through the eight sidhdhis like Anima. You have done the same to me. Tyagaraja worships you.'

    Or Namdev

    55
    What can you lose
    if you sing
    Ram [God]?
    Sing that name
    sleeping or waking.
    The glory of that name saved Dhruv
    and Prahlad
    who meditated on the mantra
    Ram.
    Sanak and others
    cherished the name
    the name Ram
    which grants freedom.
    This is my message
    says Namdev
    ‘What you receive
    is what you desire’.
    56
    Sing the name
    Ram
    the state of nirvana.
    Your tongue lies idle
    what better can it do?
    Service.
    Worship.
    Remembrance.
    Meditation.
    All are false
    without God.
    Fasts
    pilgrimages
    serve worldly goals
    they are empty without faith.
    These regular fasts
    are worldly efforts
    they are like a ladder
    discarded
    when the citadel is scaled.
    My heart lies at Your feet
    You are my refuge
    says Namdev.

    To learn about anything, we should study it in detail. So if we learn about tapas, we find it's mental and physical.

    Seva can be mental or physical. The physical is important because we use a physical body. So physical devotion and yaga such as dancing, playing musical instruments, singing, clapping hands, all of these purify us, our physical and mental bodies. These resonate the holy name in us, and this is the best practice in existence.

    We should learn very early, that tapas extends life. Austerity is not something to shun, but to practice. Yoga helps us with peace, happiness, health, awareness or consciousness.

    Yoga or is very simple because basically it is just meditation, anywhere in nature. For example, Valmiki who wrote the Ramayana, before he did, (and also transformed with a change of heart), meditated for years until anthills formed over him.

    Others in the shastras have sometimes done this. But we should learn very soon in life, yoga makes us healthy.

    Indeed yoga, tapas, and meditation, are all if not synonymous, are closely connected, interweaving aspects. Body and mind are equally aided by each of these.

    Harih om

    Shiva Bhava Pada
    Gam Gam Ganapati
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXQjrK1bwQ

    Dattavani.org
    https://dattavani.org/pravachana-malika/datta-vaakya/

  10. #10

    Re: Does God really punish

    Quote Originally Posted by rv2789 View Post
    Does God really punishes or take revenge from humans? For eg- If someone asked something from God and took a vow that if he gets that thing, he will offer something to God. He gets that thing but he did not fulfil his vow to God. Now..will God punish really him or take revenge to him?
    Namaste

    There is no rule that fits each situation, however, if a person did participate in a kAmya-worship (to gain something specific in the world), making a vrat, vow, then forgetting the vow is ingratitude and indifference to the Parameshwar or the Deity.

    However, it is never too late to accept the mistake and express this to Him sincerely. Then, always remember Him going forward.

    Why not communicate openly with Parameshwar? If someone said they will do something, and forgot, but have remembered now, and for some reason cannot keep the promise they made in the first place, what they can do is show there sincerity towards Him, that they are aware of what happened (perhaps years ago) , and are willing to rectify that now.

    If what was promised is not possible, then approaching Bhagvan with humility saying I was wrong, I overestimated myself, I should not have promised something I cannot do.... and that is the best beginning of sincere bhakti towards ParaBrahman, Parameshwar, BhagavAn -- resulting in detachment from world or reducing attachment.


    Satyanarayan Katha says Kalavati (who was attending the SatyanArAyaN puja) ran out to receive her husband when the ship arrived after a long journey, without taking the prasAd and this is showing indifference or disrespect for SatyaNarayan who is taking such care of the beings on earth. Ignoring divine prasad or undermining its divinity is ingratitude. She did see a consequence of that but as soon as she realized her mistake it was forgiven.

    Kalavati's father made a vow that he will do a Satyanarayan Puja if they have a child. He had a daughter, became a prosperous merchant and forgot Bhagvan altogether. He saw some consequence. It was only when he was in deep trouble, life was stuck , that he / or his wife remembered that they had forgotten all about the vow. So they performed the puja, and the father was freed from the problem.
    Long-term effect of this was that the family realized the importance of gratitude to ParaBrahman' , for which you have to first be aware of His presence and His compassion.


    Now regarding prasad you may say -- I am allergic to ingredient X in prasAd - you can still honour it by taking a dot-grain , touching your head etc.


    So the bottom line is open communication with ParamAtmA, gratitude and devotion as others have mentioned above. Although a consequence may appear as punishment in the short term, it is actually for the individual's long-term good - setting them on the path of bhakti. Shift of Focus. (purpose of SatyanarayaN katha is not to scare us).

    If a person is a devotee, the intimate bhakta-bhagvAn relationship is like child-parent when it comes to consequence. In fact, BhagvAn protects devotee from making wrong decisions or from sorrow. He looks out for the devotee just as a mother will look out for the stumbling 3-year old.

    ----
    *[Para]Brahman, ParamAtmA, BhagvAn, Parameshwar are referring to God in Hindu Dharma.
    Last edited by ameyAtmA; 21 October 2019 at 04:25 PM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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