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Thread: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

  1. #21

    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Hare Krsna

    when srimati radharani looks in the mirror she sees Krsna

    this is acintya bheda abeda tattva

    dandavats

  2. #22

    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Dandavats

    Shakti is reflecting parabrahaman through the rishis

    (Vaishesika Nyaya)
    Anuman
    Pratyakshya
    Samkhya
    Yoga
    Purva mimamsa
    Vedanta


    Ishwara wields the power of maya in the cosmos


    This is saguna Brahman


    They both create multiplicity or infinite Nama and rupa


    Maya is divine power of ishwara


    Both are nirguna or transcendent , they are one with infinite forms which ever expand, nirguna is formless meaning not fixed in one form



    Nirguna is shape shifting with the creative potency of shakti


    Shakti is nirguna


    Nirguna is changeless


    Shakti is creative potency of the changeless

    shakti is the divine artist

    she creates nirguna

    shakti creates unlimited forms of the uncreated formless


    This is acintya bheda abheda tattva


    Only rishi who are shakti can know this , citta which is also a shakti is now caught up and entangled in mind and senses and creates the idea of the individual


    By the power of ishwara yielding maya who is non different from him there is paradigm shift in the citta this is anugraha


    Citta wakes up and then expands into shakti realises that citta is not product of individual creation as separate self or the false idea that it is the body, a fixed identity. It’s expands into Union with shakti and reflects within its own being ishwara who is nath of the cosmos , all becomes one, this is the kevalaya or oneness of the citta with shakti and ishwara , kevalaya means acintya beda abheda tattva which is advaita not two all tattva's and vada's are inherent and inclusive in this realisation of divine union and the swarupa of Brahman which is identical in every way with paramatama , this is yoga , samadhi , all Acharya's, rishis, muni are absorbed in this wonder transcendental Prakash, and while these seems to be riddles and apparent complexity contradictions full of paradoxes it’s is the ultimate reality the eternal divine Lila of shiva and shakti laxmi narayana Radha Krsna who are always absorbed in acintya abheda bheda tattva through bhajan


    Hare Krsna
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 07 October 2020 at 03:24 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Namaste ji,

    Nice points, want to make sure we dont deviate this discussion.
    Sad Dharshana is different from the later philosophical schools that are based on Vedanta ( The end or culmination of all prior dharshanas are VedAnta). I am only talking about the Vendanta Schools and their differnces and what they lead the practioner to. (Acintya BedAbeda is one of the school based on Vedanta)

    Second, if anyone comes to this forum from a different faith, i would like to make sure, they get right information and not personal opinions alone.

    SanatanaDharma is univeral and includes everything good and bad - but still motivates the individual to reachthe better or ultimate of their individual destination. Its hard to explain everything to someone than individual themselves experiencing the right idea and in shortest possible time. Philosophies are like proven receipes - you cook the meal faster and with least mistakes if you follow the receipe. If you want to cook something with out any receipe but with pure experiment, its also fine - but you may or may not cook the right perfect tasting dish in one go. Then comes the impossible - how can just one individual experience everything with no idea, no exposure, no methods etc. Ordinary soul in its journey of elevation cannot immitate Rshis' and those are not practical. Its also not true that, philosophical schools came only in Kali Yug or last 2000 years etc. They all existed eternally - Bagavat Gita was not spoken first time in the battlefield of Kurukshetra.

    Philosophies are guides - with complete information and knowledge about the world, their nature, the objective and goals of everything and everyone. They are not without basis but built with Vedanta as their foundation and Upanishads etc as their references. So, someone with out any awareness of any of these can still experience few things in life due to their desire and blessing or simply karma. ( Your interest, hard work and dedication - as you rightly said Shraddha - Vishwasa is even better word). But, many experiences we go through will not help but leave us in more confusion and distress and this is the very reason, the idea of Guru exists. Guru is going to teach us what? Experience? No. Guru is going to teach the method to gain experience and also validate its authenticity and meaning of the same.

    Practising what we heave learnt is the right and never failing way for the actual experience and also grace.

    Hare Krshna

  4. #24

    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Hare Krsna

    citta is the mirror
    Radha is shakti
    krsna is parabrahman

    where is the difference

    dandavats

  5. #25
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    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Namaste,

    Krishna is independent
    Radha Rani is also independent

    The most challenging and inconceivable reality is, The RadhaKrishna.

    Experience when put into words becomes philosophy - so here is the philosophical version.

    Radha is Krisha and Krishna is Radha. Radhakrishna is also real. When all three are thought and meditated upon, what explains them to your PremAtma is "Acintya BedAbeda".
    Are they three different and independent? Answer is YES
    Are they not one and the same? Answer is YES
    How come they are independent and also the same at the same time? That is the idea of "Acintya BedAbeda" - That is the philosophy.

    Is the philosophy going to help you to experience this Truth as reality? Yes.
    Can we just have such experience but don't care about the explanation? Probably not everyone will say YES - and this is why "Gaudiya School" itself is existing.

    Retiring from this thread and thank you Markandeya Dasa and others for your valuable contribution.

    Hare Krishna

  6. #26

    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    (ii) AmeyAtma ji: I'm sorry for delayed response, as I failed to come here the past several days. You have added so much value to the conversation. One observation of yours - Yes, it is indeed correct to not try to delineate or decipher the divine bliss in words. But on 2 occasions this is permissible, I feel. One, when the shastra or anubhava is questioned and untrue words are interpreted, totally out of context. I'm referring to a local politician of TN state misrepresenting Rasa Leela in something that it is not. .
    Namaste Virajaji,
    Yes, I know why you brought up Raas Leela as example of achintya bhedAbhed. I think creating this thread was a noble gesture - it shows your love and respect for BhagvAn Shri KRshNa.

    My point was for seekers trying to figure out achintya bhedAbhed.

    This is why I did say that both of you are doing a great service explaining the philosophy behind Raas Leela "to keep the misunderstanders at bay". By misunderstanders I meant people like the politician you mentioned, and a whille ago some high court case brought up a grave misunderstanding too, referencing puranas wrongly.

    It is sad though, and this is why Shri KRshNa instructs :
    BG18.67 DO NOT explain this Yog to anyone who
    (i) is not a devotee or not devoted enough
    (ii) is not austere enough so that they will not understant it
    (iii) is not interested in hearing about it
    (iv) is envious of Me

    because He knew people will do this. KRshNa was 8! The Gopis were much older, they had family responsibilities. They adored Him, worshipped Him. KRshNa, along with His friends, tugged at their chunri and stopped them in their way, demanding the dahi-makhan they were going to sell. Since He was very close to their heart, they gave Him the maakhan (butter). KRshNa collected it for His sakhas and the monkey friends.

    KRshNa is lokAdhyaksha, surAdhyakshya, dharmAdhyakshya, a sannyAsi, bramhachAri and ParaBramha'.
    Adhyakshya (president and care-taker) of all loka, gods (sur), all Dharma (VishNusahasranaam)
    Last edited by ameyAtmA; 09 October 2020 at 09:43 AM. Reason: (iii) is not interested in hearing about it
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  7. #27

    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Hare Krsna Grames,



    I understand what you mean by differences, we are saying the same thing but choosing different words, Bedha Abedha is Radha Krsna, how can there be any differences, if its words we using then diversity is better, oneness with diversity, consciousness( chaitanya) and its power ( shakti), Nirguna Brahman as two combined into one is sri chaitanya, this is Advaita Bhakti Jnana, we just cant separate Parabrahman and Adi Parashakti, it is inconceivable, the philosophical advaita seems to deny Bhakti in the Ultimate reality and claim there is only Jnana and that Bhakti is somehow a preliminary and conclude that nirakar Brahman, is some sort of infinite attributeless void due to the material elements being impermanent and born from conditions and causality, so how can Ultimate reality have attributes, this is a mundane projection , it is impossible to separate sunrays from the sun. Inherently there is no difference between bhakti and jnana, sadly and through to many of my experiences a lot of current vaishnavas focus far more on the differences than the similarities, which is also the other end of the spectrum of philosophical problems, based purely on man made ideas. Acintya Bheda Abheda is the medium which unifies all siddhantas, its is pure vedanta, only the vassana is made up of differences.

    Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, was initiated both from Kesava Bharati who was from Adi Shankara Sampradaya and Ishvara Puri from Madhava Sampradaya, he unified them all, he unified all the varieties and unlimited manifestations of dharma all round India, acintya bheda abheda is the unification of siddhanta, not to find differences like they do today with competing philosophies in the guise of siddhantas, and a disturbed obsession against Advaita and fanatical sectarianism.

    I accept most of what you saying although we may have different view on what is philosophy, for me philosophy is a way of explaining something and is mostly based on mental ideas and proliferation, siddhanta is somehow a divine technology passed down through shadba pramanas or oral traditions, bhakti yoga is very much based in sound nada brahman, shabda brahman , bhajan is mature refined level of Nada Brahman or Ultimate Reality in sound, where the ultimate reality is illuminated through Vak ~ sound speech, such is the importance of pravachana, thus it is stressed that one should only hear tattva from shuddhi bhakta or one who is at least pure in heart and has heard and been transformed via that insight passed through Vak, directly from a sadhu, Vak comes at 4 levels, this internal Vak is always present in the heart of the Devotee.


    Which then confirms what AmeyAtmA Prabhu is saying from Bhagavad Gita 18.67, and personally i have never really gone to much into some of the lila of Vrndavana due to all the misinterpretation's, even when i am India , i spend the least amount of time in Vrndavan, i will take the dust, do parikrama and then go, although last year i was fortunate enough to spend a full seven days at Radhakunda at the time of shivratri, its a magical place....... the physical manifestation of Vraj Dham is just the tip.

    One really needs to realize not as an automated mental process that one is not the body to understand divine lila, just as the moon comes in cycles, through universal movement and arrangement the rasa of bhakti will manifest itself by its own power, i dont think there is any recipe or process that the individual can do, mind does not possess by its own energy the ability to transcend its own limitation, there are many sadhakas stuck in process.

    Dandavats
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 07 October 2020 at 05:04 AM.

  8. #28

    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Hare Krsna,

    I just wanted to add another comment for consideration on what is lila, as that which is transcendent activity between Krsna and Shakti. At some point it maybe worth trying to understand what Rishi's ( Seers ) are which in the most basic way to explain are the nadis opening within each chakra and the illumination and knowledge which is seen and realized, often they are depicted as historical personalities and philosopher's or belonging to a geographical location, with varying discoveries on the absolute nature of existence and consciousness and are somehow competing or proving supremacy to mundane logic , when in fact they are all expansions of shakti that sit on the edge of multiple levels and dimensions of the chakras, where these psychic points awaken and bring knowledge and experience to our being of the ultimate reality and its potential, which is vast unlimited and beyond any way we can really describe, few will even grasp what becoming liberated really is, its not just freedom from individual suffering, or a way to improve ones outward personality, these are not even really considered as they involve desire and attachment to the outside world. This in itself is hard to grasp for most people are aiming at these two as the goal of liberation, these are mundane goals, why would one strive for things related to the impermanence of the body, this is only surrendering to mirage in the desert.

    There is so much to cover, unlimited amount of ways to speak about this process of awakening to the origin and substratum of existence and consciousness.

    In the lila of dwarkadish , Sri Krsna liberates the 16108 wives, a few other numbers are given but that's a technicality. Did this really happen, was there a historical person called Sri Krsna who defeated Narakasura and rescued and then married all these ladies, who were taken by force by the asura. As soon as you start believing this then thats the way to open the doors to mundane translations, same as with vrdavana lila, it is said in the lila of 16108 shaktis are being liberated and married to krsna is the lila of the rishis, they purposely create these lokas of being captured and experience narak ( hellish condition) for a short period of time just to experience the bliss of being liberated and being in union again, its their play, its all the play of consciousness and its power to create. All these rishis in the form of ladies are shaktis, and the lila of these rishis is to experience the bliss of liberation and union with the divine again and again. There is nothing mundane when the gopis leave their husbands in the middle of the night to dance with Bhagavan Sri Krsna under the moonlight, these are the evolved rishis who are expansions of shakti experiencing divine union on the edge of the subtle mystical chakras.

    Dandavats

  9. #29

    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Hare Krsna

    I was going to post this in inspirations, as it came up on my timeline memory today. I thought it maybe better used here, due to the nature of the discussion, which i learned a lot from and gave me so much food for thought ( ahara ) . I wont add any translation because translation while it may help at times spoils the flow of the sloka a little bit. If one wants they may do independent study for translation.

    ādi-madhyāvasāneṣu
    vairāgyākhyāna-saḿyutam
    hari-līlā-kathā-vrātā-
    mṛtānandita-sat-suram
    sarva-vedānta-sāraḿ yad
    brahmātmaikatva-lakṣaṇam
    vastv advitīyaḿ tan-niṣṭhaḿ
    kaivalyaika-prayojanam

    SB 12.13.11-12

    Jai Sri krsna

  10. #30
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    Re: Raasa Leela and Achintya Bedhabedha tattwa

    Hare Krsna ji,

    MD ji, I thank you for all golden wisdom shared in this thread. I personally benefited a lot from posting my thoughts on the subject and learning from you and others who participated in this thread.

    Thanks and regards,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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