Let's kick into Ajapa Japa!

[Viraja]

Namaste all,

I am not sure how many feel the music still echoing in your ears, long after you stop listening to it. To me, this has always been the case..... so much that in the past, I have had problems concentrating on academic learning because of this after-effect.

Now the more I read into Ajapa Japa, I come to appreciate this set-up.

Well, the above situation of music echoing in your ears long after stopping to listen to any particular music, may not be Ajapa Japa after all!

Nevertheless, you get the idea!

Japa or prayer, done intermittently, without any effort on the native's part constitutes 'Ajapa Japa'.

It is said Ajapa Japa purifies the chakras (7-fold chakras from Muladhara to Sahasrara) over time and betters one personality, taking away personality flaws gradually (and rather effortlessly) and thus results in spiritual advancement.

As much as I learnt about it, the process needs to be built by a native with some effort.... initially, one might need to practice constant internal chanting to kick-in the process. But after a time period, this is said to stabilize to the point, the chanting happens involuntarily and continuously.

This process is said to yield the same result as the breathing meditation techniques, in other words, known as SOHAM meditation. (Here, a sadhaka focuses on breath moving through the Sushumna Nadi, in an upward movement, starting at Muladhara and stopping at all chakras until the Sahasrara, during inhale. A specific Bija is meant for each chakra on the way........ VAM, HUM, LAM, RUM, etc. An exact opposite process marks the exhale).

Interested in learning about your Ajapa Japa experience, and your insights, if readers have any!

Thanks and regards,

Viraja

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Hare Krsna Viraj Ji,


Thank you again for such a nice post


There are a few of things which come to the surface in your post.

First one is that the echo type reverberating of music or sounds is when mantra or kirtan is within the mind, this can also form as part of meditation and can override the fickle nature of minds wandering chancala ( although laxmi is also known as chanchala but this is divine movement of shakti) , minds wandering which is there only to be let go of and not attached to. One can internally within the mind repeat the mantra or kirtan, sutra or whatever, the effect of this will bring the mind into one point as a platform for minds consciousness to go into transcendence. As the mind wanders bring it back to the object of meditation.

Also what jumps out is that this internal process requires a different form of concentration, for academic concentration a certain type of concentration is needed, if it lacks then people need stimulants like tea , coffee and so on, better sleep, improved diet and other types of adjustments, a quite place so concentration is not disturbed, these are all superficial aids.

The inner concentration has its own source of power and may have the effect of losing consciousness with the outside world, there maybe no interest in reading or even listening, i have found in some states that even listening to talks, reading texts is a hindrance to the mind state which just wants to flow within its own source but still has a concentrated power of its own and is not reliant on any outside cause or stimulation, its independent free and spontaneous .

Haridasa Thakur came to mind and he was said to chant 3 laks 300,000 rounds or hari nam every day. I came upon this quote

Ṭhākura Haridāsa would not even accept prasādam nor even sleep for a moment without finishing his daily routine of chanting with his beads three hundred thousand names

This is far more profound than it first seems to be. Haridasa would first start his japa externally, verbally chanting for 100,000 times recitation of hari nam. Then he would do his recitation within the mind manas japa for 100,000 and the third is final state of prajna, so within the last 100,000 rounds of hari nam he was in samadhi and was thus is deep sleep by power of prasade. Within that third state of absorption there is total unity with Brahman.

Hare Krsna

[Viraja]

The inner concentration has its own source of power and may have the effect of losing consciousness with the outside world, there maybe no interest in reading or even listening, i have found in some states that even listening to talks, reading texts is a hindrance to the mind state which just wants to flow within its own source but still has a concentrated power of its own and is not reliant on any outside cause or stimulation, its independent free and spontaneous .

Haridasa Thakur came to mind and he was said to chant 3 laks 300,000 rounds or hari nam every day. I came upon this quote



This is far more profound than it first seems to be. Haridasa would first start his japa externally, verbally chanting for 100,000 times recitation of hari nam. Then he would do his recitation within the mind manas japa for 100,000 and the third is final state of prajna, so within the last 100,000 rounds of hari nam he was in samadhi and was thus is deep sleep by power of prasade. Within that third state of absorption there is total unity with Brahman.

Hare Krsna

Namaste ji,

I am yet to feel that concentrated inner power, while doing japa. Of course, I try only audible/vocal japa at this point, but in the past I have seriously done some ajapa japa (with some materialistic goals). I can say that towards the end of ajapa japa, I really did achieve my materialistic goals, the prayer was indeed answered.

These days I intend to get rid of some nuisance personality defects.... addictions (mainly to the internet), brooding (about people, conversations I have had with them, emotional upsets), anger, etc.

Not sure if 1 hr of japa (or ajapa japa) every single day will help with this, and if it does, after how much of prayer.... but hoping I will have a turning point indeed with continued effort.

Wow, Swami Haridasa Thakur did have patience. I know from his tale how he was beaten in 22 different public places with whiplash by tyrant rulers, in an effort to convert him away from Krishna marga and how miraculously he endured them without pain whatsoever. I truly believe this is the gift of his japa.

Pranam.

Thanks for the reply.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Hare Krsna Viraj Ji,

I have found the external japa can only take the mind so far, at some point it needs to be internalized, there are practices where japa is in rhythm with the breathing, like ajapa japa. Breathing helps to give stability to mind in mediation practice and associating the breathing with a mantra gives more effect to stabilize the internal chatter, this naturally leads to mind being absorbed for different amounts of times and the right type of energy of mind virya becomes part of how the mind is concentrated.


As you have said intention and purpose can work, and each person can be aware of what they want from it, my intentions maybe different or another's different, it just depends on the person and situation. Personally i think that the personality view is a major hindrance, can brahman have a stereotype, can personality be solid or fixed, we are multidimensional beings, the more we know this the more infinite and unbounded we become, i think mostly people are suffering due to having some ideal mode of being or for the world to be a utopia and were supposed to fit into it, the highly religious angel like being figure or so called perfect role models in society for me is a bit sugary and can often miss part of being human and in fact could be a symbol of evil because if others dont fit into this high minded state then they are less, sinners or fallen, outcastes, its all systems of control and has little to do with freedom that others impose and some try to adopt it to fit into society, groups and so on just to feel accepted. Sadhana may help with these things but its not the goal.


Part of Krsna lila and the gopis is that they still have so called faults, can show symptoms of klesha anger, jealously, pride but they are purified into rasa. Vamsi dasa babaji maharaja (avadhuta) and many ancient sadhus dont live in normal society, dont hardly care for it because its run by fools and materialists who only have limited self interests. Vamsi dasa would argue with his murtis and not cook for them because he was not happy with them , jad bharata was considered as dumb and stupid, so what exactly is the personality we try to create, the creation or destruction of the personality is a cause of dukkha. How Brahman enters each Jiva and acts is dependant on samskaras and iccha shakti.

Hare Krsna

[Indialover]

Namaste Viraja,

you use two terms ‚ajapa japa‘ and ‚prayer‘ in one line of thought.

… in the past I have seriously done some ajapa japa (with some materialistic goals). I can say that towards the end of ajapa japa, I really did achieve my materialistic goals, the prayer was indeed answered.

Japa ajapa I combine with a mantra leading to a higher state of consciousness step by step, with the final goal, the union with the ultimate.
300,000 repetitions give an idea of the dimension!!!

A prayer is a kind of conversation with one's Ishtadevata. Mostly attached with an expectation from the gross level.

Japa ajapa at the end is also attached with an expactation but it‘s an expectation from the subtle level, it‘s a ‚let it flow‘.

Haridasa did not pray, he did japa ajapa.

These are my thoughts.

Pranam

[Viraja]

Hare Krsna Viraj Ji,

I have found the external japa can only take the mind so far, at some point it needs to be internalized, there are practices where japa is in rhythm with the breathing, like ajapa japa. Breathing helps to give stability to mind in mediation practice and associating the breathing with a mantra gives more effect to stabilize the internal chatter, this naturally leads to mind being absorbed for different amounts of times and the right type of energy of mind virya becomes part of how the mind is concentrated.


As you have said intention and purpose can work, and each person can be aware of what they want from it, my intentions maybe different or another's different, it just depends on the person and situation. Personally i think that the personality view is a major hindrance, can brahman have a stereotype, can personality be solid or fixed, we are multidimensional beings, the more we know this the more infinite and unbounded we become, i think mostly people are suffering due to having some ideal mode of being or for the world to be a utopia and were supposed to fit into it, the highly religious angel like being figure or so called perfect role models in society for me is a bit sugary and can often miss part of being human and in fact could be a symbol of evil because if others dont fit into this high minded state then they are less, sinners or fallen, outcastes, its all systems of control and has little to do with freedom that others impose and some try to adopt it to fit into society, groups and so on just to feel accepted. Sadhana may help with these things but its not the goal.


Part of Krsna lila and the gopis is that they still have so called faults, can show symptoms of klesha anger, jealously, pride but they are purified into rasa. Vamsi dasa babaji maharaja (avadhuta) and many ancient sadhus dont live in normal society, dont hardly care for it because its run by fools and materialists who only have limited self interests. Vamsi dasa would argue with his murtis and not cook for them because he was not happy with them , jad bharata was considered as dumb and stupid, so what exactly is the personality we try to create, the creation or destruction of the personality is a cause of dukkha. How Brahman enters each Jiva and acts is dependant on samskaras and iccha shakti.

Hare Krsna

Namaste MD ji,

Seems like you are saying praying with some goal in mind is not all that bad.... or to put what you said in the right perspective, goal-seeking is in itself the right goal! Correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

As usual profound wisdom filled in your post. The readers will truly appreciate the knowledge they glean from your replies.

Thanks and regards.

[Viraja]

Namaste Viraja,

you use two terms ‚ajapa japa‘ and ‚prayer‘ in one line of thought.

… in the past I have seriously done some ajapa japa (with some materialistic goals). I can say that towards the end of ajapa japa, I really did achieve my materialistic goals, the prayer was indeed answered.

Japa ajapa I combine with a mantra leading to a higher state of consciousness step by step, with the final goal, the union with the ultimate.
300,000 repetitions give an idea of the dimension!!!

A prayer is a kind of conversation with one's Ishtadevata. Mostly attached with an expectation from the gross level.

Japa ajapa at the end is also attached with an expactation but it‘s an expectation from the subtle level, it‘s a ‚let it flow‘.

Haridasa did not pray, he did japa ajapa.

These are my thoughts.

Pranam

True, IndiaLover ji. I have used the terms prayer and ajapa japa interchangeably, and that is quite not correct, as you say.

But the only clarification I have to offer is that my prayer as in the above context, is seeking for that end-result of purifying my personality,, gradually, step-by-step, resulting in the personality that ajapa japa would yield.

But your observation is remarkable. I thank you for that.

Thanks and regards,

Viraja.

*Thanks to all who participated in this thread.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Hare Krsna Viraja Ji,

Seems like you are saying praying with some goal in mind is not all that bad.... or to put what you said in the right perspective, goal-seeking is in itself the right goal! Correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

In BG Krsna says that in whatever capacity he is approached, that person is udhara or magnanimous, prayer i dont know what the equivalent would be in yoga practice, maybe its closer to desire which is natural for each person to desire things which bring what they want or need in any circumstance, if one gets what they desire or prayer for is uncertain. The main point i was trying to say was about intention and each different persons intention will vary, their goals per say will be different, goal seeking is also natural to us , for one seeking liberation from whatever is goal seeking but to attain that goal all desires from attachment to goal is let go of, it then becomes a upaya or skilful technique, a yukti a yogic trick for the mind, to surrender to a conscious intellect above the nature of mind and its conditioned limitations, gradually life and the reciprocation within sadhana with the Ultimate Reality will purify the desire and totally be inline ( at One, without difference ) with the Supreme Will, what that is nobody can say because its nirguna, independent and free.

With any kind of sadhana ones mind should be fixed on the object of meditation, this was the other type of concentration that is needed which becomes the focus or goal and object, which helps to rest the mind, bring the mind into shunya and new situation is created within the mind, mind is reborn in a slightly different way, over time this process will transform the mind through the alchemic process of yoga sadhana.

Hare Krsna

[Indialover]

Namaste Viraja,

You (and we all) can pray and wish whatever you want, you will get always what karma has foreseen. A prayer precedes what would have happened anyway.

To have the mindset, that a prayer helps is a gift of Bhakti. But it is also karma - you pray because you are destined to do.

Same with precautionary measures - you cannot change the predestined, but if it is your fate, you will take precautions and thus avert adversity.

Pranam

[Viraja]

Hare Krsna Viraja Ji,



In BG Krsna says that in whatever capacity he is approached, that person is udhara or magnanimous, prayer i dont know what the equivalent would be in yoga practice, maybe its closer to desire which is natural for each person to desire things which bring what they want or need in any circumstance, if one gets what they desire or prayer for is uncertain. The main point i was trying to say was about intention and each different persons intention will vary, their goals per say will be different, goal seeking is also natural to us , for one seeking liberation from whatever is goal seeking but to attain that goal all desires from attachment to goal is let go of, it then becomes a upaya or skilful technique, a yukti a yogic trick for the mind, to surrender to a conscious intellect above the nature of mind and its conditioned limitations, gradually life and the reciprocation within sadhana with the Ultimate Reality will purify the desire and totally be inline ( at One, without difference ) with the Supreme Will, what that is nobody can say because its nirguna, independent and free.

With any kind of sadhana ones mind should be fixed on the object of meditation, this was the other type of concentration that is needed which becomes the focus or goal and object, which helps to rest the mind, bring the mind into shunya and new situation is created within the mind, mind is reborn in a slightly different way, over time this process will transform the mind through the alchemic process of yoga sadhana.

Hare Krsna

Namaste ji,

Profound words. Dealing with right intentions and seeking divine help during japa does purify the native over the time period and puts him in line with the Supreme Will.

Thanks and regards.