Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 36 of 36

Thread: For Proper Understanding of Srila Prabhupada's Books

  1. #31
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,028
    Rep Power
    2595

    Re: For Proper Understanding of Srila Prabhupada's Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Humbleseeker View Post
    Hare Krishna!


    When Lord Shiva is described as a an exalted person in Brahma Samhita (https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs/5/45/), even as per Vaishnava philosophy can we group Him under the general term of Demi-god, which seems to be more fitting for a deva/post?
    May be in English there are not many synonyms for demi-gods to make this differentiation.. ??

    (Understanding of Lord Shiva's position is much better in Gaudiya sampradaya compared to Sri Vaishnavism where it is considered as a person like any other deva.)
    The above quoted line describes it all very well, and I agree.

    Before trying to answer, I tried to search for the video by HH Sri Indradyumna Swami Maharaj of ISKCON wherein he describes the role of Shiva as Gopeshwar Mahadev in Vrindavan. Alas, there are far too many videos under his channel 'Indradyumna Swami Official ENG' in Youtube, and I am unable to locate it.

    I think at this point, it would be wiser for someone to clarify with monks like him, as to me, it seems acceptable for the term demi-god, for someone of lesser importance as per the sect.

    Regarding the rest,


    I am interested to knw more about two important points you have made. If you wish kindly share more on these two aspects.

    1. You had indicated that "the position of 9th lord, Atmakaraka and similar factors in Navamsa decide our attraction to a specific form of deity, therefore there is no real threat to one's devotion" Can you guide some references where i can learn more about this to evaluate my own case?
    2. So based on this horoscope, even if one is in a different sampradaya , rather than the one indicated by horsocope as favorable, then one cannot attain perfection in that path?
    3."Nothing happens without Krishna or Shiva's grace. I think we can at least be assured those ever souls, destined for the right path, will be found by Shiva or Krishna at the right moment, without fail and that this would happen even if they originally take to a different path."
    So are you referring here that even those who are engaged sincerely in Devotional service to Krishna, if their path is towards Shiva , they will be picked up at some time to another path? ( I am not sure if any Acharya would accept this , but though i feel intuitively that it is possible). can you explain a bit more. Thanks.
    1. Kindly refer to posts by @Yajvan here, he gives precise pointers about jyotish and Ishta-devata. I am not astrologically trained, just an enthusiast, and made casual remarks.
    2. I guess so, however if you could open this up as a separate thread, it might give opportunity for experts to conclusively opine on it, now or later. Also this thread is derailed from the OP very much already.
    3. There have been several examples, memory has it that there is an azhwar who was formerly as Shiva devotee, and also an nayanmar who was a Vishnu devotee to begin with. Besides, there are also numerous examples of both Shaivite and Vaishnavite devotees converted from Jainism and Buddhism. To find the names out, it needs some time as I am unable to locate too quickly. May be, a reader who knows can help.

    When the soul is ripe, the right intervention happens, as in the case of saint Arunagirinathar, who was a total non-devotee taken over by Murugan.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  2. #32
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,028
    Rep Power
    2595

    Re: For Proper Understanding of Srila Prabhupada's Books

    -deleted the duplicate submission-
    Last edited by Viraja; 04 August 2021 at 04:00 PM. Reason: duplicate, deleting
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  3. Re: For Proper Understanding of Srila Prabhupada's Books

    HAre Krishna!

    Thanks Viraja Ji for your thoughts.

    Yes I would not worry too much into the english word used , as what one feels internally is more important than the choice of words.. and we can only judge our internal thoughts and not others, esp great saintly persons. (Assuming it was not edited by anybody else)

    Regarding the rest
    1. I would search for Yajvan 's post.. i could not see any working link in your post.
    2. Ok Will open a new thread
    3. Yes i have heard of Thirumizhai alwar who went through many religions including Shaivism before becoming an Alwaar. he is still in Jeeva Samadhi at Kumabakonam.
    Another example is Govinda (Embar) cousin of Raamanujar. I have heard of Nayanmaars coming back from jainism (i think Appar ). But i have not heard of a nayanmaar who was worshipping Vishnu before becoming a Saivaite.

    Thanks
    Regards

  4. #34
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    561
    Rep Power
    815

    Re: For Proper Understanding of Srila Prabhupada's Books

    Namaste,

    Again twisting and this is not fair.
    Regardless of Samprayda or even religion, God must be One - Its also a philosophical stand point of most known philosophies of the world.

    My God, your God etc is still ignorance - given the funamental agreement that God is one. So, when you talk to newbies, the quarrel of my God, your God is the stepping stone or starting point.
    Fortunately, all the major sampradaya or schools of thoughts from India have same fundamentals - but different "models" of understanding the unltimate reality. When the fundamentals are not same, they have their own ultimate God - as a subject mostly and as a notion in few thoughts. But, its neverthless you have one God and i have another God.

    Shaivasim identified Lord Shiva as THAT ultimate One - keeps Lord Vishnu with the status of DEmi-God ( now you should ponder and disagree and start another argument cos of your disagreement).
    Vaishnavaism identifies the ultimate ONE as Lord Vishnu - and thus keeps Lord Shiva as a demi-god.

    So, until you dont try to reconsile, you are left with only ONE GOD - as per your following. If you really mess up your mind assuming you can follow both - with a reconsilation - you are LOST. Someone who is lost cannot have any conviction or arguments on why they have lost.

    I fear, we fundamentally going in circle here... GOd is one - not Two. Question is, is it Shiva or Vishu or even these two names refers to same entity/vastu/subject? Answers from Sri Vaishnava is, Yes GOD IS ONE and HE IS LORD VISHNU. So, no one else can substitute or take that role - thus Lord Shiva is not on par and will never be on par regardless of your wish, desire and dictation - Lord Shiva will be always a demi-god. Calling or considering this belittling - is our belittling of the great saints like Sri Ramanujuna.

    If you dont have rational backing for such disagreement, your disagreement itself is not valid.

    Hare Krshna

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Namaste,

    I absolutely agree with this view. Each sampradaya views his god as the only GOD.

    The other sampradaya need not worry about how a particular sampradaya views his god, every sampradaya pays little or no attention to the god of a different sampradaya.

    (As per Jyotish, the position of 9th lord, Atmakaraka and similar factors in Navamsa decide our attraction to a specific form of deity, therefore there is no real threat to one's devotion).

    (That Srimad Ramanujacharya called Shiva a 'demigod' is from a certain lecture by Sri Velukkudi Krishnan Swami dating back to at least 10 years ago. In that lecture, Swami said Shiva is a position to be held, more like a temporary title.

    Because of the reason that Sri Vaishnava scriptures as much as I know, do not state this, I thought Ramanujacharya's stand in calling Shiva a demigod is slightly belittling of Shiva.

    I could be wrong, I am not an expert in Sri Vaishnava scriptures.

    ISKCON calling Shiva a demigod, is because to ISKCON only Krishna is GOD, just like to a Shaivite, only Shiva is GOD).

    The role of a guru is to be emphasized at this juncture, he is the only one who we can consult when facing moral dilemmas as involved when choosing one's Ishta devata and dispells the darkness and clears the doubts so that the tender sapling of devotion can grow. It is better to not ever consult the texts pertaining to other sampradayas at this stage, in my humble opinion.

    Pranam.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    561
    Rep Power
    815

    Re: For Proper Understanding of Srila Prabhupada's Books

    @Grames: I think more better analogy to use would be president and prime minister instead of home minister and Prime minister.. as in Prime minister and president the hierarchy is not very clear.

    President and Prime minsters arent one and same - Still two. They have gradation among them - as no two never be on same plane or with same powers. ( In fac,t no dharshanas gives same power or position to two entities - except some not so sound philisophical followings). So, if the disagreement is only due to the word "Demi-God", take it as the language limitation or exposure limitation of the Indian Guru's and not the actuals ascribed to the Paramatma to Deva/Devathas.

    Intereting point is, every soul ( Satvik, rajasik or Tamasmik) picks their ista Devata - and such ista devata worship aka faith is also enabled by the very same Lord ( Krishna).
    The "Release" is the ultimate destinty for all the souls = Azwar - Who enabled that "release" ? Sriman Narayana - This is also the very same azwars conviction.

    Hare Krshna

  6. #36
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,028
    Rep Power
    2595

    Re: For Proper Understanding of Srila Prabhupada's Books

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Namaste,

    Again twisting and this is not fair.
    Regardless of Samprayda or even religion, God must be One - Its also a philosophical stand point of most known philosophies of the world.

    My God, your God etc is still ignorance - given the funamental agreement that God is one. So, when you talk to newbies, the quarrel of my God, your God is the stepping stone or starting point.
    Fortunately, all the major sampradaya or schools of thoughts from India have same fundamentals - but different "models" of understanding the unltimate reality. When the fundamentals are not same, they have their own ultimate God - as a subject mostly and as a notion in few thoughts. But, its neverthless you have one God and i have another God.

    Shaivasim identified Lord Shiva as THAT ultimate One - keeps Lord Vishnu with the status of DEmi-God ( now you should ponder and disagree and start another argument cos of your disagreement).
    Vaishnavaism identifies the ultimate ONE as Lord Vishnu - and thus keeps Lord Shiva as a demi-god.

    So, until you dont try to reconsile, you are left with only ONE GOD - as per your following. If you really mess up your mind assuming you can follow both - with a reconsilation - you are LOST. Someone who is lost cannot have any conviction or arguments on why they have lost.

    I fear, we fundamentally going in circle here... GOd is one - not Two. Question is, is it Shiva or Vishu or even these two names refers to same entity/vastu/subject? Answers from Sri Vaishnava is, Yes GOD IS ONE and HE IS LORD VISHNU. So, no one else can substitute or take that role - thus Lord Shiva is not on par and will never be on par regardless of your wish, desire and dictation - Lord Shiva will be always a demi-god. Calling or considering this belittling - is our belittling of the great saints like Sri Ramanujuna.

    If you dont have rational backing for such disagreement, your disagreement itself is not valid.

    Hare Krshna
    Namaste ji

    Yes I agree with the stand and in fact, that is what I told in my replies to IndiaLover. Thanks for this clarification.

    Thanks and regards.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Srila Prabhupada's Commentarie upon SB.
    By Mana in forum Puranas
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 13 August 2013, 11:54 AM
  2. Srila Prabhupada
    By JayaRadhe in forum Hot Topics
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 13 February 2013, 10:29 PM
  3. Recommended Books of A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada
    By jnana777 in forum Hare Krishna (ISKCON)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 27 April 2012, 01:26 AM
  4. Srila Prabhupada's Final Words
    By satay in forum Hare Krishna (ISKCON)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 20 April 2011, 03:14 PM
  5. SRILA PRABHUPADA SPEAKS OUT
    By satay in forum Hare Krishna (ISKCON)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06 July 2006, 09:30 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •