Re: Who Can Learn the Veda's
Namaste IR.
Originally Posted by
Infinite Regress
Caste then would be more like race, right? If so, in what way is this different from racism? A black person cannot change his race, going by Kanchi Seer's idea, neither can a shudra. Isn't this unfair?
It is not Kanchi Seer's 'idea' that caste and varNa are decided only by birth and that they can't be changed. He has only given the correct interpretation of the relevant quotes in the Vedas and Bhagavad Gita. You may feel yourself to be competent to oppose what he has elaborated, but I am not.
Logically, a black person, even when he becomes a president, cannot change his race in this birth, can he? In the same way IMO, yes, a shUdra cannot change his varNa. This means that he can learn and study the Vedas, be a ruler or a business tycoon, but that does not alter his varNa in this birth.
Originally Posted by
Infinite Regress
Just because caste can be equated to class, it doesn't make either of them right. One can say they're both wrong, and the very system is aimed at oppressing poor people.
The varNa or caste or class system, per se is not wrong, only the exploitation of either by vested interests. It is this system that has has preserved the Hindu religious and cultural deversity and saved Hinduism from destruction by the western religions.
Originally Posted by
Infinite Regress
Kings in India were fighting and killing each other all the time. There's no difference between Indians and westerners in this respect, if at all there's any, westerners did this globally, whereas Indians were local.
Kings in India did not practice the system of human slavery, whereas in the European civilization even the rich and wealthy did it. The Indian kings might have fought among themselves killing each other, but only in wars, which were fought according to the kShatriya dharma. They never killed the civilians in wars nor fought their wars after sunset. It was the invading Muslims who violated these principles. Later, the British who ruled India, brought slyness and sophistry to those violations.
Originally Posted by
Infinite Regress
Maybe so, but even the poorest Black is better off than a dalit in India.
In what way? Does the poorest Black have the security and peace of life that a Dalit has in India? As a rule, the rich and wealthy of any religious community is never happy or peaceful because of more and more avarice (unless they seek to earn and spend their wealth dharmically), but the poor in India, left to themselves, are much more peaceful and satisfied than their counterparts in the West, and this is only because of their faith in the Hindu dharma.
Originally Posted by
Infinite Regress
All this is completely irrelevant in the 21st century. We must give up traditions which curtail our progress, and instead of focus on the important aspects of the Hindu religion alone, namely studying, meditation, yoga etc. Else, Hinduism will appear just as intolerant as Islam.
You cannot accuse a judicial system of being intolerant just because the law is becoming more and more of an ass, resulting in convictions of the criminal (and sometimes innocent) poor while the criminally rich and powerful always escape the clutches of the law. In the same way, Hinduism will never appear as intolerant to the right thinkers because of its varNa and caste system, which regulate the Hindu Dharma.
You are wrong in your view that 'traditions curtail our progress'. It is the Hindu traditions that have spread, fostered and sustained faith and dharma among all sections of the Hindu society and kept the influence of western materialism at bay. Similarly, study, meditation, yoga and such advanced methods of sAdhana are available in Hinduism to everyone without the requirement of an intermediate pastor.
On the other hand, while the Hindu paths of meditation and yoga are universal and generally welcomed in the West, some orthodox Muslim and Christian religious establishments seek to impose a ban on them to keep their followers enslaved to the precepts of their dogma. It is this tradition of imposed dogma of the western religions that stands in the way of the spiritual progress of the common person, and needs to be opposed.
A Hindu religious person, whether a brahmin or a dalit, might be required to adhere to the precepts of his varNa, but is never enslaved within its confines. He is always free to have his own independent inquiry towards the nature of his Self, and in this path he always has guidance, both by the scriptures and by gurus.
रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥
To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.
--viShNu purANam
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