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Thread: What I Find to be 'Maya'

  1. #11
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    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~


    Namaste,
    I Have added another item to my list of maya. This notion of suffering as a driver and cornerstone of spiritual development. Some take 'tapas' as spiritual hardship to suffering. Tapas , is that of heating up, of purification. Like the blacksmith as he heats up and fires gold and the impurities are removed by this process and the pure gold remains.

    One sisya asked my teacher, 'did Christ suffer ?' - He responded 'anyone that says I and my Father are One does not suffer.'

    For me this whole sufferng thing has distorted ones view of spiritual progress. For the native on the path, is suffering possible ? - sure. Yet its ala carte, its on the side. How much of the suffering is that of ones own making from past actions? To this I do not know, as ones actions over eons is unfathomable ( so says Krsna, Bhagavad Gita 4.17)


    So adding to the list: [ please add to the list your ideas and assumptions]
    • That suffering is needed for spiritual advancement;
    • That the earth is rotating at over 1,000 mph and I do not feel the wind in my face. That I cannot, though my senses, feel this movement.
    • That I see the sun go from east to west, yet one tells me it is me that is moving.
    • That I have grown over time but cannot point to any one moment to measure the difference.
    • That my nature is Infinite, yet I would have never discovered this notion on my own, without the help of the Tradition as a guide.
    • That people are genuinely good and satvic, yet will kill their own kind when provoked.
    • That we love dogs and cats and invite them in our homes, but will eat a cow for supper.
    • That we are compelled to pursue happiness, yet it is within us, and look elsewhere for this miracle.
    • That many on this earth will kill in the name of the Lord
    • That some on this good earth think that the 'truth' (satyam) can be measured with numbers and by science.
    • That we are Whole and Full yet we feel incomplete.
    • That we acquire finite things to bring us joy and it only burdens us with more things to take care of.
    • That one group believes their God is better then another's and that He/She is qualitatively and quantitively different.
    • That we are told we have been here before, yet we cannot remember the occasion or the time spent.
    • That some think the veda's are book and should be read as such , as if it was written by man And - that the world is as we are... if one is having a good day , then all is well. If one is having a bad day, then the world is dark, yet the only thing that changed was the persons view of life.
    • That many may think actions we perform on our own perhaps even in our own home, behind closed doors only impact and travel no further then the doer of that action. As if a bell was rung, and the vibrations stay secluded to ones property (ether of the body or the home).
    • In the Mahabharata, a Yaksha asks Yudhishthira (also known as Dharmaraj) , What is the most unbelievable thing in this world?Yudhishthira answers, That people perpetually die in this world, but man acts and lives as though he will never die.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
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    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    Namaste,

    One sisya asked my teacher, 'did Christ suffer ?' - He responded 'anyone that says I and my Father are One does not suffer.'

    For me this whole sufferng thing has distorted ones view of spiritual progress. For the native on the path, is suffering possible ? - sure. Yet its ala carte, its on the side. How much of the suffering is that of ones own making from past actions? To this I do not know, as ones actions over eons is unfathomable ( so says Krsna, Bhagavad Gita 4.17)
    • That suffering is needed for spiritual advancement;
    • That the earth is rotating at over 1,000 mph and I do not feel the wind in my face. That I cannot, though my senses, feel this movement.
    • That I see the sun go from east to west, yet one tells me it is me that is moving.
    • That I have grown over time but cannot point to any one moment to measure the difference.
    • That my nature is Infinite, yet I would have never discovered this notion on my own, without the help of the Tradition as a guide.
    • That people are genuinely good and satvic, yet will kill their own kind when provoked.
    • That we love dogs and cats and invite them in our homes, but will eat a cow for supper.
    • That we are compelled to pursue happiness, yet it is within us, and look elsewhere for this miracle.
    • That many on this earth will kill in the name of the Lord
    • That some on this good earth think that the 'truth' (satyam) can be measured with numbers and by science.
    • That we are Whole and Full yet we feel incomplete.
    • That we acquire finite things to bring us joy and it only burdens us with more things to take care of.
    • That one group believes their God is better then another's and that He/She is qualitatively and quantitatively different.
    • That we are told we have been here before, yet we cannot remember the occasion or the time spent.
    • That some think the veda are books and should be read as such , as if it was written by man
    • That the world is as we are... if one is having a good day , then all is well. If one is having a bad day, then the world is dark, yet the only thing that changed was the persons view of life.
    • That many may think actions we perform on our own perhaps even in our own home, behind closed doors only impact and travel no further then the doer of that action. As if a bell was rung, and the vibrations stay secluded to ones property (either of the body or the home).
    • In the Mahabharata, a Yaksha asks Yudhishthira (also known as Dharmaraj) , What is the most unbelievable thing in this world?Yudhishthira answers, That people perpetually die in this world, but man acts and lives as though he will never die.
    Adding to my list above:
    • That on this earth we can produce a saint that brings the wisdom and glory of the Divine to the earth he walks on; on the same dirt being walked, there are those that want to bring evil to the family of man.
    • That one can do good deeds and take a life-time to accompish this and another can take that life, in one second with a bad deed.
    • That we talk of time, and zillions and billions of years² that this creation has been in place but what matters is only now.
    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
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    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    I need the following answers. To me these vrittas are manifestations of one Maya.

    What is there in curves and flesh? Why orgasmic bliss is mistakenly related to symmetry or oomph etc of another? What is there in sensuality?

    All other otherness are easy to tackle. God is one who killed Kama yet nourished the essence in His own heart.


    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 30 September 2007 at 08:09 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  4. #14

    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    What of this death is it too maya? And who rules death Yama. And if we take Yama's name, and reverse it we get Maya.

    Could this death be maya also? For many this brings fear...the fear of dying. Could it be we have done it before and we have an iniate feeling of what happens? Or could it be we know that death also means rebirth and we start again?
    yama reversed is maya, and not mAyA.

    maya means a vikAra(transformation) or prAcurya(abundance) as in Anandamaya.

    mAyA means something supernatural(power), or an illusion.
    In advaita tradition, mAyA is typically read as mA yA meaning "not there".

    When you call dvaita as mAyA, it means dvaita is "not there" though you think it is there. How far the "not there" can be interpreted is not uniform for all advaitic traditions and even followers of Shankara are not fully agreed.

    In the view of some advaitins, the world of name and form should be considered as modifications of Brahman, like different gold objects are made from gold, and jnAna consists of intuting Brahman in all names and forms. This view also holds that the names and forms are eternal(in as much as it is realized that their substrate is Brahman), and the ajAti vAda is used to justify that these were never created.

    However, mANDukya kArikas of gauDapAda would tell us that, all names and forms of temporary, and are actually sublated in jnAna, and that the jnAni has no knowledge other than Brahman, the reality. In the mAndUkya upanishad nAntaH prajnam mantra all types of prajna is negated totally including the simultaneous awareness of all the objects.

    The second proposition runs into some logical problems because no perfect teacher of advaita can be found if the perfect jnAnin no longer percieves any dualty. That would also render Ishvara and avataras as "non perfect jnAnins" because they percieve dualty. Infact, the kind of dualty percieved by an avatAra is of the former type - all names and forms are seen through their Brahman substratum.

    There is thus, no uniform view regarding the scope of mAyA.
    He is the one on whom our hope depends. For if Hanuman survives, all we though dead are yet alive. But if his precious life be lost though living still we are but dead: He is our hope and sure relief -Jambavan (Yuddha Kanda. 74). Impossibility=Hanuman

  5. #15
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    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Madhavan View Post
    yama reversed is maya, and not mAyA.
    maya means a vikAra(transformation) or prAcurya(abundance) as in Anandamaya.
    mAyA means something supernatural(power), or an illusion.
    In advaita tradition, mAyA is typically read as mA yA meaning "not there".

    Namaste Madhavan,
    and this mAyA माय as used in the posts are that of what some deem illusion. I see a pure definition of this mAyA as the infinite measured out , from mA, to measure.

    As if the Infinite can be divy'ed up that is the illusion. As if one can cut up Brahman into parts. As if we look up and see the sun pass overhead and one tells you it is the earth that is moving not the suun.

    I do not see this as 'supernatural' as that is considered conventional wisdom and in vogue as of late. What is supernatural about the very core of life? I do not see this. [ no need to answer as this is asked rhetorically ]

    I appreciate your input , yet my intent on its use is clear in my application and in my mind.


    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16

    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    From the Para-Brahma Upanishad:

    With distinctions like teacher and disciples (also), Brahman alone
    appears.
    From the point of view of truth, pure Brahman alone is.



    It seems to me, that, since Brahman alone is, distinctions, i.e., creation is maya.
    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate.
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih!

  7. #17
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    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaos View Post
    From the Para-Brahma Upanishad:

    With distinctions like teacher and disciples (also), Brahman alone
    appears.
    From the point of view of truth, pure Brahman alone is.

    It seems to me, that, since Brahman alone is, distinctions, i.e., creation is maya.
    Namaste Kaos,
    and Welcome back. Thank you for your post! Yes I see your point on this maya. The truth is, as I have been taught and now begin to see-appreciate day-by-day, each and every particle of creation is THAT also.

    So in the final-final analysis, This is THAT, and even This that we thought was maya, is THAT infinity, that fullness some like to call samasta or wholeness Brahman. So say the wise.

    This allows me to wake evey day with a new vision, that all is good.


    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 October 2007 at 09:39 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18

    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Namaste yajvan,

    Thank you for your response.



    Tat Avam Asi (Thou Art That).

    Brahman is All. Brahman alone thou art and Brahman alone exists.
    True, even maya is of Brahman.


    Could it be for the same reason that Buddhists, pay homage, respect, gratitude, pray? to their own true nature.





    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~



    Namaste Kaos,
    and Welcome back. Thank you for your post! Yes I see your point on this maya. The truth is, as I have been taught and now begin to see-appreciate day-by-day, each and every particle of creation is THAT also.

    So in the final-final analysis, This is THAT, and even This that we thought was maya, is THAT infinity, that fullness some like to call samasta or wholeness Brahman. So say the wise.

    This allows me to wake evey day with a new vision, that all is good.


    pranams,
    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate.
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih!

  9. #19
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    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Namaste Madhavan,
    and this mAyA माय as used in the posts are that of what some deem illusion. I see a pure definition of this mAyA as the infinite measured out , from mA, to measure.

    As if the Infinite can be divy'ed up that is the illusion. ---
    I do not see this as 'supernatural' as that is considered conventional wisdom and in vogue as of late. ----
    pranams,
    Pranam to all,

    There is Jaganmaya -- which indeed is supernatural. That is the instantaneous power of consciousness to conjure objects (the world).

    But this leads to Avidya for Jiva (who may see 'Me and World') and measuring out for Vishnu (who spans the full and knows and resides in the highest).

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  10. #20

    Re: What I Find to be 'Maya'

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post

    There is Jaganmaya -- which indeed is supernatural. That is the instantaneous power of consciousness to conjure objects (the world).


    Namaste Atanu,

    Yes, I agree.
    Therefore, it can be said that for humans, the world around us (creation?) is based on the power of human consciousness to conjure objects.

    As a human being perceives and divides the world differently than that of a frog or a bat.
    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate.
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih!

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