Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Sanyasa and Agni

  1. #1
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    68
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    216

    Sanyasa and Agni

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste,

    Anyone care to assist me on this... with sanyas there is the notion of not using agni for ones service. We know by tradition a sanyasi is not expected to cook food lest it bind him to the needs of the body. Yet can anyone help me better understand the spiritual significance of this? That is, not of cooking, but of the relationship of the sanyasi to agni.


    And does the rules change for:
    • Deha Sanyasa
    • Mano Sanyasa
    • Atma Sanyasa
    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    Lisbon/Portugal
    Posts
    230
    Rep Power
    42

    Question Re: Sanyasa and Agni

    Namaste all

    • Deha Sanyasa
    • Mano Sanyasa
    • Atma Sanyasa


    Knowing the meaning of Sanyasa i would like to know what does this different types of sanyasa stand for?
    Last edited by Nuno Matos; 14 August 2007 at 05:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    Lisbon/Portugal
    Posts
    230
    Rep Power
    42

    Smile Re: Sanyasa and Agni

    Namaste Yajvan

    I have heard that each order has it's on rules in what respect cooking, for example Sri Vaishnava members are prohibited to eat other food than the one cooked by then selfs.
    Last edited by Nuno Matos; 14 August 2007 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    68
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    216

    Re: Sanyasa and Agni

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuno Matos View Post
    Namaste all


    • Deha Sanyasa
    • Mano Sanyasa
    • Atma Sanyasa

    Knowing the meaning of Sanyasa i would like to know what does this different types of sanyasa stand for?

    Namaste Matos,
    I will share what little I know, as my knowledge here is one legged, as the rishi's say. I look for all corrections and deeper understanding.
    • Deha Sanyasa - Deha is that of the body;
    • Mano Sanyasa - Mano is that of the mind;
    • Atma Sanyasa - Atma is that of the SELF, of Brahman
    So what does this infer?
    • With Deha, the sanyas is in the beginning states/stages - preparing the body, the mind; One has not realized Atman.
    • With Mano, the practices begin; there are restraints have been gained; that is, the mind has been tempered and progress of withdrawing the senses from the objects of the sense has been made.
    • Atma, the goal or unfoldment has been accomplished; If Krsna was talking ( BHagavad Gita Chapt 6.2) He would say - That which they call sanyasa, know it to be yoga, O son of Pandu; for no one becomes a yogi who has not relinquished the incentive of desire.- [ yoga is the Union with the Divine.]

      This occurs in the Atma sanyas state. He has conquered his self by his SELF alone ( Chapt 6.6). He sees the SELF in all beings and all beings in the SELF.(6.29); through this you will see all beings in your SELF and also in Me (Krsna) (4.35)
    That said, it is also suggested that the sanyasa is of two kinds:
    • vividisa sanyasa - renunciation preceded by a sense of detachment from the world;
    • vidvat sanyasa - renunciation just preceding the dawn of the realization of the SELF as this will bloom. If this where Pantanjai-muni's words he may say Dharma-mega or cloud pouring virtue is eminent
    What of this renunciation - what is one renouncing? niti-niti! say the wise. I am not that, that I see. I am not 'out there' in name (nama-rupa)and form that is not me, I am this SELF, this silence, this Atman, Brahman.

    Once this is realized one attains to perfect peace... and what else?
    To the realized brahmin all the veda's are of no more use then is a small well in a place flooded with water on every side.(2.46).
    What does this mean? the Realized sanyasi has accomplished Vedanta, the end of the veda, the fullness of Being, Brahman is he.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 14 August 2007 at 06:43 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Sahasrarkadyutirmatha
    Posts
    1,802
    Rep Power
    184

    Post Re: Sannyasa and Agni

    Namaste Yajvan (and Nuno),

    Regarding terminology (and cooking):

    deha-saMnyAsa is “renunciation of the body”, or the “appearance” of saMnyAsa.

    mano-saMnyAsa is “renunciation of the mind”, or “imaginary” saMnyAsa.

    Atma-saMnyAsa is “renunciation of the self”, or “abandonment of breath”.

    saMnyAsa is “putting or throwing down, laying aside, resignation, or abandonment”, particularly “renunciation of the world” or “the profession of asceticism”.

    saMnyAsa also has specific connotations, such as “abstinence from food”, and ultimately it is “giving up the body” or “sudden death”.

    The Atma-saMnyAsin is in samAdhi ~ and cooking dinner does not apply!

    The mano-saMnyAsin is fully resigned to unattachment (but may not appear as an ascetic) ~ in which case, cooking food should be no problem.

    The deha-saMnyAsin professes renunciation and appears as an ascetic (but has not necessarily abandoned all attachment) ~ in which case, the sAdhaka may indeed renounce cooking or contact with fire (although eating may still be on the menu).

    A vividiSu-saMnyAsin is “desirous of knowing or learning”, and vividiSu-saMnyAsa is “renunciation while living in the world”.

    A vidvat-saMnyAsin is “one who knows” (“a wise man, sage, or seer”), and vidvat-saMnyAsa is “renunciation due to paravairAgya”.

    The vidvat-saMnyAsin has totally exhausted all desires, including the desire for self-realization ~ and this is the highest order of saMnyAsa.

    The turIyAtIta does not use his hands at all while eating (like a cow), so I assume that cooking would be out of the question! And a turIyAtIta usually eats only fruit.

    saMnyAsa traditionally involves the renunciation of family and external fire ritual (i.e. yajña), and there are six stages of saMnyAsa.

    The kuTIcaka (“hut dweller”) usually cooks for himself, although in gurukula there may be others preparing the food.

    The bahUdaka renounces any attachment to dwelling, and such wandering ascetics collect alms and (generally) do not remain in one place for more than three days.

    The wandering haMsa, paramahaMsa and turIyAtIta also sustain themselves by collecting alms (or whatever nature provides).

    And the totally transcendent avadhUta consumes whatever is brought before him!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    68
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    216

    Re: Sannyasa and Agni

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Namaste Yajvan (and Nuno),

    Regarding terminology (and cooking):

    deha-saMnyAsa is “renunciation of the body”, or the “appearance” of saMnyAsa.

    mano-saMnyAsa is “renunciation of the mind”, or “imaginary” saMnyAsa.

    Atma-saMnyAsa is “renunciation of the self”, or “abandonment of breath”.

    saMnyAsa is “putting or throwing down, laying aside, resignation, or abandonment”, particularly “renunciation of the world” or “the profession of asceticism”.

    saMnyAsa also has specific connotations, such as “abstinence from food”, and ultimately it is “giving up the body” or “sudden death”.

    The Atma-saMnyAsin is in samAdhi ~ and cooking dinner does not apply!

    The mano-saMnyAsin is fully resigned to unattachment (but may not appear as an ascetic) ~ in which case, cooking food should be no problem.

    The deha-saMnyAsin professes renunciation and appears as an ascetic (but has not necessarily abandoned all attachment) ~ in which case, the sAdhaka may indeed renounce cooking or contact with fire (although eating may still be on the menu).

    A vividiSu-saMnyAsin is “desirous of knowing or learning”, and vividiSu-saMnyAsa is “renunciation while living in the world”.

    A vidvat-saMnyAsin is “one who knows” (“a wise man, sage, or seer”), and vidvat-saMnyAsa is “renunciation due to paravairAgya”.

    The vidvat-saMnyAsin has totally exhausted all desires, including the desire for self-realization ~ and this is the highest order of saMnyAsa.

    The turIyAtIta does not use his hands at all while eating (like a cow), so I assume that cooking would be out of the question! And a turIyAtIta usually eats only fruit.

    saMnyAsa traditionally involves the renunciation of family and external fire ritual (i.e. yajña), and there are six stages of saMnyAsa.

    The kuTIcaka (“hut dweller”) usually cooks for himself, although in gurukula there may be others preparing the food.

    The bahUdaka renounces any attachment to dwelling, and such wandering ascetics collect alms and (generally) do not remain in one place for more than three days.

    The wandering haMsa, paramahaMsa and turIyAtIta also sustain themselves by collecting alms (or whatever nature provides).

    And the totally transcendent avadhUta consumes whatever is brought before him!
    Namaste sarabhanga,
    Thank you for the post... yes I am comfortable with the notions given and you have added value.

    Yet something tells me there is more to this... this use of fire ( more then just cooking) then sustaining the body. As we know Agni is outside of us as flames, as homam, and inside of us for digestion, agni is associated with various senses and with agnir vag bhutva - agni becoming the speech in man (Aitareya Upanishad 2.4).

    I think there is something spiritually deeper. We know that ~ 2,000 mantras of the Rig Ved have hymns to agni. We also see Agni tattva reflected in Mars - then as Hanumanji ( the celibate & great devotee ) , Skanda as the Warrior Chief of protection, and he as Sanatkumara-ji.

    IMHO it is how the sanyas befriends this agni and respects this quality by non-use or only for spiritual intent. This is just my first blush idea and more needs to be considered.


    I will continue my research here as my 'itch still remains unscratched' on this matter.

    agner vayam prathamasya amrtanam
    Manamahe charu devasya nama
    Agni the first amoung immortals, his asupicious name we utter.

    sa no mahya aditaye punar dat pitaram
    cha drsheyam mnataram cha
    He will restore us to the mighty Aditi so that I may behold the Father and the Mother. .... Rig Veda 1.24.2 rshi Shunahshepah Ajugartih


    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 22 October 2007 at 01:25 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #7
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    68
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    216

    Re: Sanyasa and Agni

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste,

    the Sanayasa Upanishad for ones consideration....


    http://www.celextel.org/108upanishads/sannyasa.html
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #8
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Sahasrarkadyutirmatha
    Posts
    1,802
    Rep Power
    184

    Light Re: Sannyasa and Agni

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarabhanga

    saMnyAsa traditionally involves the renunciation of external fire ritual (i.e. yajña).
    The sacred fire is not extinguished, however, and an internal yajña continues until the mortal frame is finally discarded.


    पञ्चाहुति मन्त्रः
    || pañcāhuti mantraḥ ||


    ओं प्राणाय स्वाहा ।१।
    ओं अपानाय स्वाहा ।२।
    ओं समानाय स्वाहा ।३।
    ओं उदानाय स्वाहा ।४।
    ओं व्यानाय स्वाहा ।५।



    oṁ prāṇāya svāhā |1|

    oṁ apānāya svāhā |2|

    oṁ samānāya svāhā |3|

    oṁ udānāya svāhā |4|

    oṁ vyānāya svāhā |5|



    See also: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...33&postcount=4

  9. #9
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    68
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    216

    Re: Sannyasa and Agni: prana agnihotra

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Namaste Yajvan, The sacred fire is not extinguished, however, and an internal yaja continues until the mortal frame is finally discarded.
    पञ्चाहुति मन्त्रः
    || pacāhuti mantraḥ ||


    ओं प्राणाय स्वाहा ।१।
    ओं अपानाय स्वाहा ।२।
    ओं समानाय स्वाहा ।३।
    ओं उदानाय स्वाहा ।४।
    ओं व्यानाय स्वाहा ।५।

    oṁ prāṇāya svāhā |1|
    oṁ apānāya svāhā |2|
    oṁ samānāya svāhā |3|
    oṁ udānāya svāhā |4|
    oṁ vyānāya svāhā |5|
    See also: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...33&postcount=4
    Namaste sarabhanga,
    yes I see your point. External - no tajas, internally tapas and agni.

    From the Chandogya Upanishad we find the prana agnihotra also called panchagni vidya. Just as we find an external yajya with swaha, there is the internal counterpart and the agni of Virat inside ourselves.

    Its a most wonderful knowledge to consider -Chandogyopaniṣhad Chapt 5.19.1 to 5.23 and its view of Vaisvanara as Cosmic prana. Per your outline above we have the following from the stotra ( in the order shown in the valli ).
    • oṁ prāṇāya svāhā |1| prana becoming satisfied, the eye (caksu) beomes satisfied; the eye being satisfied the sun (surya yet this mantra correctly calls out as aditya) becomes satisfied; the sun being satisfied, heaven becomes satisfied; having heaven being satisfied its satisfaction is accompanied by the offerer becoming satisfied with good progeny, cattle, food, and the like and with with brightness and lustre of wisdom.
    • oṁ vyānāya svāhā |2|vyana been satisfied, ears (srotra) become satisfied; ears satisfied the moon (chandra) becomes satisfied; with moon satisfied the directions (dig or dik) on the compass become satisfied; Directions being satisfied that which underlies the directions and the moon become satisfied; Its satisfaction is accompanied by the offerer becoming satiefied with good progeny, cattle, food, and the like and with with brightness and lustre of wisdom.
    • oṁ apānāya svāhā |3| apanaya been satisfied, speech (vac or vak) beomes satisfied; speech satisfied agni becomes satisfied; with agni satisfied the earth become satisfied; Earth being satisfied that which underlies agni become satisfied; Its satisfaction is accompanied by the offerer becoming satisfied with good progeny, cattle, food, and the like and with with brightness and lustre of wisdom.
    • oṁ samānāya svāhā |4|apanaya been satisfied, mind (manas) beomes satisfied; mind satisfied Parjanya [ some call rain cloud as the rain devata], becomes satisfied; with Parjanya satisfied lightening becomes satisfied; Lightening being satisfied that which underlies lightening and Parjanya beomes satisfied; Its satisfaction is accompanied by the offerer becoming satisfied with good progeny, cattle, food, and the like and with with brightness and lustre of wisdom become satisfied.
    • oṁ udānāya svāhā |5|Now the 5th. With udanaya been satisfied, skin (tvak) becomes satisfied; Skin being satisfied air (vayu) becomes satisfied; with vayu satisfied akasha (pure space) becomes satisfied; what underlies akasha and vayu become satisfied; Its satisfaction is accompanied by the offerer becoming satisfied with good progeny, cattle, food, and the like and with with brightness and lustre of wisdom
    The implication is with each food stuff we take in , we can be making this offer/yajya to each. Swami Krishnananda says ' as every river is connected to the ocean every prana is connected to the Cosmic Force ; we invoke the Universal Being'. This can be done other ways, yet offering of food to agni internally is something we can do daily.


    This continues to remind me of Swami Krshnananda's insight - every action produces an effect ( apurva). This we know. And there is no such thing as a local event - everything is all things, and anything is everywhere. This comes with the understanding of consciousness pervading everything. With prana agnihotra we can touch the sun, the moon, and other places and influence for the good.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 August 2008 at 05:53 PM. Reason: spelling correction
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    68
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    216

    Re: Sannyasa and Agni: prana agnihotra

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    • Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
      oṁ prāṇāya svāhā |1| prana becoming satisfied, the eye (caksu) beomes satisfied; the eye being satisfied the sun (surya yet this mantra correctly calls out as aditya)
    • oṁ vyānāya svāhā |2|vyana been satisfied, ears (srotra) become satisfied; ears satisfied the moon (chandra) becomes satisfied;
    • oṁ apānāya svāhā |3| apanaya been satisfied, speech (vac or vak) beomes satisfied; speech satisfied agni becomes satisfied;
    • oṁ samānāya svāhā |4|apanaya been satisfied, mind (manas) beomes satisfied; mind satisfied Parjanya [ some call rain cloud as the rain devata], becomes satisfied;
    • oṁ udānāya svāhā |5|Now the 5th. With udanaya been satisfied, skin (tvak) becomes satisfied; Skin being satisfied air (vayu) becomes satisfied; with vayu satisfied akasha (pure space) becomes satisfied;
  11. Namaste,
    I thought to make a few comments on the above from the Chandogya Upanishad.
    The verse above says prana becoming satisfied, the eye (caksu) beomes satisfied; It's intersting to note that the verse says 'eye' as singular vs. eyes, as plural, as we have 2 eyes.
    The notion is our vision is one vision, yet done with 2 eyes. As with ear or srotra. We have 2 ears, but we hear singularly. I have written ears in the post so it sounds gramatically correct, yet it should be ear, singular.

    These organs are part of the 5 (panca) jnanendriyas or organs of knowledge-cognition. They allow us to take in the environement and things that are presented to us. The jnanendriyas are coonnected to the 5 tanmatras of the 5 elements of smell, taste , form, touch and sound a.k.a. gandha, rasa, rupa, sparsa and sabda.

    So if one says smell tanmatra one thinks of smell, but as a tanmatra it is the abode of smell, where smell resides. Same with rasa or taste it is the residence of taste; this applies for rupa ( form) , sparsa ( touch) and sound (sabda). These tanmatras are the expressions of the subtler main elements or panca mahabhutas ( or 5 great elements).
    We know them as:
    Prithvi or earth, material or physical levels
    Jala or water, fluid levels
    Tejas or fire, combustion, energy, conflagration levels
    Vayu or air, gaseous, wind levels
    Akasha or pure space ( my favorite).

    As we go up the 'food chain' the mahabhutas unfold and manifest to other elements as the tanmatras and these unfold to the jnendriyas
    Mahabhutas_________ Tanmatras_____________ Jnanendriyas
    __prithvi -----------> abode of smell----------> experience of smell; nose
    __jala--------------> abode of taste ---------> experience of taste; tongue
    __tejas ------------> abode of form ----------> experience of sight; eye
    __vayu ------------> abode of touch ---------> experience of touch; skin
    __akasha ----------> abode of sound ---------> experience of sound; ear


    As you already know this is how we interact with the world and how we are connected with the world. We are an extention of the enviroment. FYI - I have not added the antahkaranas or manas, buddhi, ahamkara or mind, intellect and ego, just to keep this post easy and simple.

    Its interesting to note that these mahabhutas also have their counterparts in the sky.
    Prithvi is connected to Mercury
    Jala is connected to Venus and moon
    Tejas is connected to Mars and sun
    Vayu is connected to Saturn
    Akasha is connected to Jupiter, and provides the space for all these elements and grahas to reside in, their abodes.
    Jupiter (Guru, Brihaspiti) plays a key role for creation. No space, no place for creation to reside in.

    So here's the deal, here is the connection points with the grahas and the human condition. Because these grahas influence and many say own these Mahabhutas, their positions, movements, etc affect this bhu loka. That is the connection between us and them. The human condition and the graha influence rs.

    With this stotra from the Chandogya Upanishad it suggests in each valli , when the sun or moon, or directions, etc being satisfied, heaven becomes satisfied these satisfactions carry to various parts of our local universe. We are making friends with our enviroment.

    With this satisfiaction the offerer becoming satisfied with good progeny, cattle, food, and the like and with with brightness and lustre of wisdom. This is the notion of sacrifice or yajya and the native doing things that support his world, and supporting the universe at the same time.

    This is the wisdom found in this Upanishad, yet is it found anywhere else? Yep , pleanty of places, but let me give you one for your consideration.

    Chapt 3 of the Bhagavad Gita starting with verse 9, Krsna points out the value of yajya. In verse 3.11 He says, through yajya you sustain the gods and those gods will sustain you. By sustaining one another you will attain the hightest good.

    This notion suggests we are able to bring ourselves in the harmony that this creation offers. This whole creation is managed by all the devatata, the creastive impulses of this universe, at the core of the indryas, tanmatras, etc.

    Understanding and working with the knowledge of the Gita and the Chandogya Upanishad one has the opportuity to bring more harmony into ones life, for the mutual benefit of both parties... the human condition and the Universe.


    ...make friends with the sky- Frank Sinatra (the American singer of the 50's and 60's)

    pranams
Last edited by yajvan; 25 October 2007 at 05:31 PM.
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva

_
Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •