Pleasing God by cleaning Toilets

[vcindiana]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste vcindiana,
You ask much - I am impressed that you have this interest. I will not address all this now..............Go past the first pages, and go into these... many have spent time actually thinking though these. You will see quickly on sifting out the diamonds from the rocks.

We will then address some of your questions as the month gets brighter...

pranams,

Thank you again for your reply.
In general we janitors are not well read like you learned people. We just need God to trust and revere and we know he some how takes care of us. All we care about is work ethics and service attitude.

It appears you have sifted the diamond out of rocks but unable to tell me in a few sentences what this diamond is? It is great to be philosophic but every day's life of mine depends on pragmatic things.

You still have not clealy defined the meaning of Cosciousness and how it has impacted your daily work.

[yajvan]

Hari OM
~~~~~

Thank you again for your reply

It appears you have sifted the diamond out of rocks but unable to tell me in a few sentences what this diamond is? It is great to be philosophic but every day's life of mine depends on pragmatic things.

You still have not clealy defined the meaning of Cosciousness and how it has impacted your daily work.

Namaste vcindiana,
If others wish to address this question in the next few days deeper and wider, please do not hesitate.
vcindiana, please read - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...38&postcount=3 to prepare for the conversation.

re: how it impacts my work - nothing can be done without this consciousness being engaged; the impact: no consciousness or awareness means no work, no recogntion of any activity. The impact is consciousness is the fabric of life. All of us cannot pursue one thing, take one step without this ability of awareness ( which is consciousness applied).

Perhaps the question is - how has the development of consciousness, to increase ones full potential impacted ones daily routine? Then that is a different discussion.

Last point for your kind consideration ... If you have interest in this whole matter of consciousness and the subjects at hand on HDF, may I recommend some reading - Please consider the Bhagavad Gita to start.
At least read the first 6 chapters. This will give you food for thought and for sharing... Why do I suggest this vcindiana? to gain some equal footing.

How so? at HDF the way we approach a subject or idea is that of playing tennis. One brings a ball ( an idea) and volleys to another. The volley back and forth is the sharing of ideas and a mutual respect for ones knowledge or ideas. Some times we play doubles or even triples - and even change out the players. That is, the community of HDF is welcomed on each discussion. Some may sit down and watch the game , others may join in.
What we (I) prefer is not playing fetch the ball. One comes and throws-out an idea or question, and HDF members are expected to go 'fetch' the answer and bringing it back. Another ball is thrown out , and again brought back. ONe does not know if the answer met the need, or if the next ball will be in the air, on the ground, etc. There is no mutual exchange of benefit, its all one way.

May I suggest and offer you to play tennis at HDF...

thank you,

[saidevo]

Namaste vcindiana.

In general we janitors are not well read like you learned people. We just need God to trust and revere and we know he some how takes care of us. All we care about is work ethics and service attitude.

It appears you have sifted the diamond out of rocks but unable to tell me in a few sentences what this diamond is? It is great to be philosophic but every day's life of mine depends on pragmatic things.

You still have not clealy defined the meaning of Cosciousness and how it has impacted your daily work.

From what you have written about your life and work, it is certain that you are already on the Karma Yoga path, which is the path of service to God. You believe in God, do your work well and honestly but do not look or have time to look beyond it presently. Fine.

Let me assure you that you don't have to read much to analyze and channelize your Consciousness. You only need to consider, think, brood over and when you are ready, meditate. This thinking process will channelize your reading so you obtain only the required information and not pour over entire philosophical works.

As you have defined using a dictionary (post #83), Consciousness is essentially awareness. Who has this awareness? The human soul. So Consciousness is the very Atma, Self or Soul itself. Now Atma or Soul is pure energy and has its origin in Brahman, the One God. This Atma is now embodied in a human body and it activates the body which has external and internal senses. These senses are there to experience the world within the limits of the current life of the Atma, right?

So the Shakti or the power or energy of Consciousness is channelized right down to the senses to experience the world. All these senses have three primary channels at their root through which these other channels branch off, as with the human nervous system. The three primary channels through which Consciousness or the Atma expresses itself and flows through are the Will, Wisdom and Activity.

The Will, Wisdom and Activity are the three root Shaktis or powers of a human soul. The Will is the IcchA Shakti or the power of Desire, Wisdom is the JnAna Shakti or the power of knowledge and Activity is the KriyA Shakti or the power of creation. (In Sanskrit terms, as you are aware, any captilized letter after the first letter represent the longer vowels, A for aa, ah, au and so on. Incidentally, the English term 'itch' perhaps has its root in this term IcchA and 'create' has its root in KriyA).

All your activities comprise these three Shaktis: desire, knowledge and action. And the right combinations of them decide whether what you do is good or bad, spiritually helpful or not, and whether you are applying your Consciousness to your benefit or not. It may not be exactly an yes-or-no situation, but it certainly is a more-or-less situation.

This more-or-less situation arises when you don't properly employ or apply your Consciousness using all these three channels: desire, knowledge, action. There are situations where these three channels are not employed in full. Using the numbers 0 and 1 for yes and no, and representing them in the order d(esire)-k(nowledge)-a(ction) you have these eight combinations:

0-0-0, 0-0-1, 0-1-0, 0-1-1, 1-0-0, 1-0-1, 1-1-0, 1-1-1 or
0-0-0, 0-0-a, 0-k-0, 0-k-a, d-0=0, d-0-a, d-k-0, d-k-a

Notice that only in the last case you have full application of the three channels. The first case is what you experience in your deep sleep. The other cases arise in your wakeful and dream states of life.

What are the results of these partial combinations? That depends on the life and situation an Atma is placed in its current birth. And then there is the question of Right or Wrong. How do you know the right and wrong of a combination? It is right if it helps you to grow spiritually, wrong if it does not. But then it need not be this rigid as right and wrong; it is actually a case of more or less.

Why should you grow and mature spiritually just as you grow and mature physically? It is in the very nature of Atma to get back to its Source, just like a waterfall gushes into a river and traces its way down to the ocean. The very purpose of human birth is to experience the world, get the knowledge and grow spiritually.

Is material life totally wrong then? No, not at all. Until you have the three basic necessities of life (bread, clothes and house) fulfilled for you and your family members who are dependent on you. These three basic necessities are like potholes in a riverbed. Once they are full, the river must flow through towards the ocean. Dig them deep with your desire and ambition, the river gets stuck and stagnates and only trickles towards the ocean.

Once you have the potholes filled up in your waking life, think about your dream life. Dreams are channels of action for desires that are not fulfilled in waking life. They are great indicators for the scum that has accumulated on the Soul. The way to clean the scum are through thinking, meditating and praying--in other words, increasing the amount of Wisdom.

If you had noticed, the Will and Activity are closely coupled. Wisdom always lurks behind the scenes. The Will is the freest of the three, hence the faculty of Freewill, which is the desire towards anything. Activity follows Freewill but is far restricted than the Freewill. But Activity flows through three channels: Mano, VAkku, KAyam (mind, word and deed). The right admixure of Wisdom with Will and Activity creates situations that help spiritual growth.

How are three channels of Will-Wisdom-Activity connected to Brahman, the One God? Since the human Atma is essentially Brahman, they always stay connected. Right combinations of them reveal the underlying, self-luminous Brahman and help us realize our Self. Improper or inadequate combinations create layers of scum over the underlying Brahman and cloud its self-luminosity.

Just like the human consciousness, Brahman's Cosmic Consciousness manifests in three channels: IcchA Shakti or Will, JnAna Shakti or Wisdom and KriyA Shakti or Activity. These three Shaktis are represented by the Trinity Shiva-Vishnu-Brahma in Hinduism, and Father-Son-Holy Spirit in Christianity. Since the entire Trinity (not just the Holy Spirit) is always with us, we can set up our own ways to seek their help and guidance: through service, prayer or meditation--practically a combination of the three (to be on the safe side!).

[vcindiana]

Hari OM
~~~~~


Namaste vcindiana,
............................again brought back. ONe does not know if the answer met the need, or if the next ball will be in the air, on the ground, etc. There is no mutual exchange of benefit, its all one way.

May I suggest and offer you to play tennis at HDF...

thank you,

OK, you want to play a ball game here. In the game each player 's strong motivation is to win only and to see the opponent beaten. I guess it is clear that you have positioned yourself as all knowing Guru and it is only your opinion that will be counted. As you mentioned here, there is no mutual exchange of benefit, it is all the matter of who has the supreme knowledge of whatever the sacred books say. Is that your 'conscious ' thinking?

[sarabhanga]

Dear VC,

Most children would understand that playing a game does not require both a winner and a loser. All players can be winners if there is good will and a spirit of cooperation. Constructive discussion is not the same thing as an argument merely for the sake of winning against perceived opposition.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

OK, you want to play a ball game here. In the game each player 's strong motivation is to win only and to see the opponent beaten. I guess it is clear that you have positioned yourself as all knowing Guru and it is only your opinion that will be counted. As you mentioned here, there is no mutual exchange of benefit, it is all the matter of who has the supreme knowledge of whatever the sacred books say. Is that your 'conscious ' thinking?

Namate vcindiana,

Sarabhanga speaks wisely... the notion given was that of an example, a metaphor, simple as that. Please do not read any more into it then needed. Perhaps you overlooked the veribage 'sharing of ideas and a mutual respect for ones knowledge or ideas'. Why do you think this was offered? So that you are seen as equal - that you have something of value too, and it is not one way. that is the wisdom here.

I am not your guru nor anyone elses. HDF Is a place of sharing, that is the offer.

That said, many of the Upanishads speak in metaphors , parables and the like. I will leave it at that and not engage in any more conversations on this matter.

As I have mentioned previously - this time of the month is not auspiciuous and this exchange shows once again the wise are correct about this tithi.

May God bless and you , and you achive all you your are willing to expend effort on. I leave it to your good naure to find your way on this matter.


dhanyaavad,

[vcindiana]

Namaste everyone.

Now that we are at it, what are your opinions about Conscience vis-�-vis Consciousness? Conscience is the mana shAksi, the witness born by the mind to our activities. I remember to have read an advice by Kanchi Paramacharya that the mind should only remain a witness and not try to judge, hence the term mana shAksi.

Since the mind itself comprises manas, chit and ahamkAra, where does this conscience fit in? When we do something wrong, the conscience pricks us. Morally upright and wise people are called the conscience keepers.

Please let me have your opinions about this faculty of conscience and its connection to consciousness.

I am not a learned people like you. But let me state my understanding of consciousness and conscience.
Consciousness is the basic thing we humans are gifted unlike animals. As all of you know it is a matter of self awareness. The fact that most of us are basically shy because of this awareness. But it also makes us to look at and feel the good and evil in our world. Consciousness is not a natural thing. Some do not want to face the difficulty and they would rather take alcohol or drugs to forget the world. Being conscious makes us to think what is good and what is bad and there is continuous growth.
Conscience is a further step in being conscious and makes to act, or do right thing.
Using public toilet is a great example. We are conscious when we use it. But many public toilets are awful, we just want to relieve ourselves as quickly as possible and get out not paying attention to the trash or mess we created. Do we really think soon after we use the toilet that there will be another person just like us using it? Many times toilets do not get flushed well. Men do not put the seat down after they use. Men tend to dribble out of the toilet and forget to wipe away their droplets over the commode. After they use the sink they do not wipe it clean and dry. Used paper towels are not put in the trash properly. These are just some examples people do all the time even though they may be conscious about these. Being conscience makes the person to act; he or she will make sure the toilet is clean after it is used. It is a simple act but it pleases God.

[atanu]

----Consciousness is the basic thing we humans are gifted unlike animals. ------Consciousness is not a natural thing. Some do not want to face the difficulty and they would rather take alcohol or drugs to forget the world. Being conscious makes us to think what is good and what is bad and there is continuous growth.

Conscience is a further step in being conscious and makes to act, or do right thing.

Using public toilet is a great example. ------

Namaskar VC,

About conscience what you say, exemplified with public toilet example is OK. In respect of consciousness, I quote a part of definitions that you had cited earlier.

Consciousness according to dictionary.com:1.the state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, -------

Do you mean to say that being aware of oneself existing is not natural? It is the most natural thing. Animals also do have consciousness.

As per our scriptures, there is no place where consciousness is not there, since it its absence that place would be unknown. If you are a devotee of Jesus or Krishna or Shiva, that also is in consciousness. To summarise, the very intelligence that is helping you here to debate and discuss, weigh pros and cons, is the God we are talking about. Think about it and you will find that it had to be there before anything else. Otherwise, if anything that had existed before this consciousness would have been non-intelligent. And this brings us to materialism.

Hope it helps.

Om

[sarabhanga]

Men do not put the seat down after they use.

Those who would prefer the toilet-seat up have to lift it by themselves when some “inconsiderate” person has left it down (and vice versa). In a public toilet, how can the decision be a matter of conscience? Since it is “men” who leave the seat up, who is being offended when the seat is left up in a public toilet? Do other males really care either way? Why does a professional janitor care whether anyone leaves the seat up or down in a public toilet? And why would God be “pleased” or “displeased” either way?

[Znanna]

Those who would prefer the toilet-seat up have to lift it by themselves when some �inconsiderate� person has left it down (and vice versa). In a public toilet, how can the decision be a matter of conscience? Since it is �men� who leave the seat up, who is being offended when the seat is left up in a public toilet? Do other males really care either way? Why does a professional janitor care whether anyone leaves the seat up or down in a public toilet? And why would God be �pleased� or �displeased� either way?

LOL

Realizing the divine in what might be considered profane is perhaps a condition of consciousness?




Namaste,
ZN