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Thread: Un-Complicating the SELF became complicated!

  1. #1

    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    Perhaps if you are interested in engaging in this conversation, we can take a look at un-cluttering this most simple SELF.
    Dear Yajvan:

    Thank you for bringing up this excellent point for discussion. I would venture to add few of my own thoughts. In fact, this is a good place to summarize all my previous discussions on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    One can realize the SELF, and it is pointed out that the SELF realizes it SELF by its SELF.

    It is a beautiful conception in theory and it is the ultimate truth also. Without taking away anything from what you have so beautifully said, I would like to add that in creation the duality of nature has come into being. Of this, one being the “lower self” and the other being the “higher self”. Many are of the opinion that the “self” is purest in nature but in creation the sensory web has clouded the pure-self.

    Devoid of such material impositions the self not just realizes but knows its true nature. Such is the state in which many Sages, Buddha, Krishna and Jesus Christ lived because they were capable of destroying the “ego” to become selfless. While for us, self abnegation leads to self-realization, they lived in that state all the time.

    While this has been the goal for every one, one cannot deny the sensory web that has clouded the pure-self (higher-self) and, therefore, in any discussion we should be aware and be careful in addressing that part, which makes the goal so elusive. For an inflated ego, Vedanta merely acts as an opium, so the best thing to do would be killing the ego that is masking the pure-self before realizing the true-self.

    In creation, because of this duality, two processes that I consider are important:

    1. The abnegation of the “lower self”: The process of self-abnegation that destroys or annihilates the lower-self.

    2. The realization of the higher-self: The process to awaken the soul to realize its true nature, which is the ultimate goal.

    I can safely assume that is the condition of large mass of people (including myself) where it is a constant struggle to reach that elusive goal. In view of this, a very practical question always remains for every one who is in this realm and that is: Can the “self” (I mean lower self) abnegate itself?

    Many in the past, while discussing with me on this, have alluded to various paths – jnana, yoga, self-purification etc, as a first step. I consider them as crutches that mind holds on to like a drunken monkey aimlessly wondering in the wilderness holding on to branches. I consider such efforts are very hard if not futile. No one has elaborated on this more than sage Ramana. According to Sri Ramana, giving a branch to a mind to discover it’s self is like dressing a thief in policeman’s clothing and asking him to catch the thief. Will the thief ever catch himself?

    Instead of providing with crutches of various concepts (Jnana, karma, yoga, self-purification etc), which only goes against self-abnegation, I do believe in a basic organic turning or surrendering to the “grace” as a first-step, which you have so beautifully described, It is said that the SELF can be realized via prapatti (complete surrender) to Isvara “ as pointed in Patanjali.

    Given the tenacious hold of the ego, one of the most efficient step I have been discussing in the past is about the complete child-like surrender to grace which then leads one to jnana or realization of the higher-self. Because, only with the assurance and holding of grace, our journey to reach that goal becomes ever so realistic.

    Blessings,








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    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu View Post
    Dear Yajvan:

    -------For an inflated ego, Vedanta merely acts as an opium, so the best thing to do would be killing the ego that is masking the pure-self before realizing the true-self.

    --------

    Namaste Nirotu,

    Vedanta will not be revealed to an inflated ego. Inflated egos will be directed to various Lokas or to christianity.

    I am just trying to match you Nirotu.

    Nama Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  3. #3

    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu View Post

    Instead of providing with crutches of various concepts (Jnana, karma, yoga, self-purification etc), which only goes against self-abnegation, I do believe in a basic organic turning or surrendering to the “grace” as a first-step, which you have so beautifully described...
    Blessings,
    ...
    Various things are suitable for various souls at various stages of evolution.

    You talk of ego of and then, and in the language of sanatana dharma (though not in the essence).

    What do make of your constant battering of self-inquiry, which I am sure u never practiced, and which many people here practice and have made progress there of. What is this? Ego perhaves? Or worse, moha and false belief ??

    As have been pointed 1000 times in other threads that surrender, grace of God are an integral part of Sandana Dharma, so is jnana, yoga, self-purification. They are always complimentary and you have to be in presence of a jnani to see his love and bhakti for God and in presence of a true Bhakta to get a feel of his knowledge. I must say I have witnessed some of it personally.

    Those who practice none have no right to comment on the topics. Period.

    Like science the proof of sanatana dharma comes from practice and results there of, not by creating arguments of the EGO.

    I try not to reply to your post which are wrapped up in self-indulgence, moha and ego; Which makes you think that by just knowing a few terms and having some conceptual ideas of sanatana dharma books gives you the ability to show the faults with it ~ a Christian syndrome.

    Please look back on your posts, EGO you are so scared of has been with you more than most of the others.

    If you want to preach Christianity, please do so from your own standpoint, the Bible and the belief you associate with it. This camouflage you put on is highly irritating and against Truth. I don't know about forum rules, but if preaching Christianity is your motive (which I am sure is) please do so honestly. That would be refreshing and save the posters here from wasting the precious vak on ashes.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  4. #4

    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee View Post
    Namaste Nirotu,

    Vedanta will not be revealed to an inflated ego. Inflated egos will be directed to various Lokas or to christianity.

    I am just trying to match you Nirotu.

    Nama Shivaya
    You are so much better with usage of Vak
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    namaste all,
    Here is someone with an inflated ego. Not sure if such a person existed to begin with or if the jew exactly said this but the John's quote has made him responsible for the murder of millions.

    John 14.6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Amazing...
    satay

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    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    namaste Nirotu,

    So, is God's grace available by surrendring to Jesus only?
    satay

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    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    John 14.6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    In the same (or earlier?) breath Jesus also says this, which is self explanatory of his real nature:

    (St. Luke)
    18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

  8. #8

    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    Namaste,

    Can we move the post from Nirotu onwards to the Abrahamic religions forum so that interested people of Sanatana Dharma can have useful discussion on the SELF as intended by the OP.

    Thanks for the efforts of the moderator.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  9. #9

    Re: Un-complicating the SELF

    Dear Satay, Sm78, Atanu and Saidevo:

    Friends, you have made some pointed criticisms but I would like to clarify them. Finding faults with Sanatana Dharma has never been my goal neither has been proselytizing. I have been repeatedly emphasizing that I am more interested in practical undertaking of spiritual journey of a man. When the goal has been “spirituality” all along, I just cannot understand why you are asserting religion in all this. In fact, there is not a hint of Christianity brought in my response to Yajavan! “Spiritual” by its very nature transcends all religions and rises above man made labels. You have to come out of that mindset of labeling(namarupa) for any meaningful discussions to occur.

    I would urge you, instead of reacting strongly to some terms and labels used to make a point, if you would calmly and deeply read and see the content of my post and see what I am saying then you would have a better appreciation. My response to Atanu and Yajavan has been the same. In simple terms, do not give any crutch to an ego in searching for the self! It is nothing but the eternal truth preached by all sages irrespective of cast, creed and religion. In this world that is full of deceit, telling truth like this or even discussing it should be considered not just revolutionary but a noble act!

    I am once again urging all to sit back and reread from a spiritual journey standpoint rather than reacting. Then, may be we can continue.


    Atanu:

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu
    Vedanta will not be revealed to an inflated ego. Inflated egos will be directed to various Lokas or to christianity.


    You seem to again and again help make my point! Yes, Vedanta will not be revealed to an inflated ego! That is why ego has to be deflated first! That can only happen through surrender and what I call the first step!

    Atanu, all I am trying to say is that the start of the journey is very crucial because of the tenacious hold of the ego. I am merely emphasizing the need for vigilance at that point and beware of the crutches. This is purely at a spiritual level that is far removed from any religion. Why you and others think any other way boggles my mind!

    Saidevo:
    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo
    Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
    Saidevo, that is not what it means at all. In fact, Jesus is asserting His deity by asking them to confirm what they are saying. Because, they knew correctly of what they were saying.

    Satay:
    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    So, is God's grace available by surrendring to Jesus only?


    Reread my previous posts. When you understand the definition of “grace” you will see the truth in what I am saying. The “grace” is an unmerited favor of God and as such, any one can avail of it where no qualifications required! It is there for the asking! No where in the Bible does it say “you have grace only through Jesus”.

    It is a sad commentary that Jesus Christ was crucified only once but in these days many Christians and Non-Chrsitians crucify Him daily with a corrupt understanding of His message!

    Blessings,

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    Re: Un-complicating the SELF



    Twin said:

    Being one with The Christ is being one with the Creator.
    The definition of a Christ is, a soul who knows they are one with the Creator.
    The teaching of the Essene is anathema to all whose intention is power.
    The teaching of the Essene is alive ,and after 1500 years of suppression is about to become the knowing of all who have chosen to manefest in this timeline.
    The Law of Manifestation is the ground of being of the Universe.
    When you know that your intention is the source of all that manifests in your experience,you too will be known as a Christ.
    The act of reincarnation is intentional and on purpose.



    I don't know from the Essene, myself, so please don't ask me for elaboration!

    FWIW (for what it's worth)


    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

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