Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 62

Thread: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

  1. #1
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    I have been blessed to start the complete 18 parvas (divisions) of the Mahabharata of Veda Vyasa [ Krsna-Dwaipayna]. It is said Vyasa's work took 3 years to complete, as a daily area of work for him. I thought from time to time we on HDF could discuss this great work & get to the meaning behind the words whenever possible.

    I have read the abridged version by C.Rajagopalcachari. I am now delighted to read Kisar Mohan Ganguli's complete translation. His translation project took 13 years (1883 to 1896) to complete; Before submitting the translation to print Ganguli-ji reviewed each sloka for accuracy.

    As with most great works many slokas were exceedingly difficult to construe in Sanskrit let alone convert to English, yet Ganguli-ji looked to others to insure the best renderings and comprehension on this matter.
    I would suggest posting a few ideas from this 5th veda will be rewarding as only good can come of this within a reasonable group of people on HDF. Please feel free to post your thoughts on this, and on parts that you have perhaps read that have merit for others to consider.

    I thought the first place to start was the lineage of this word भरत bharata . I ask sarabhanga to please add his thoughts on the etymology as he sees fit and correct me as needed, as I am not the final authority, yet only delight in the opportunity to offer some of this noble work to those that wish to read on.
    भरत bharata
    भारत bhārata
    भार bhāra
    bhArata =descended from Bharata or the Bharatas
    Bharata =to be or being maintained ; an actor , dancer , tumbler ;
    Bharata = son of King Dushyanta [ Dushmanta ] and Sakuntala - named as the cherished one, the supported
    Bharatha - a world-protector
    bhAratasattama - the best of the descendants of Bharata


    From The Mahabharata, Adi Parva, Sub Section Sambhava Parva, stitched together to tell the story.

    Its very interesting to consider the lineage of this child Bharata. His mother Sakuntala, was the child of great muni Viswamitra (friend of the universe) and Menaka, an apsara [अप्सरस्celestial nymph], was sent by Indra himself to entice Viswamitra to lose his focus during his tapas;
    Indra was intimidated by Viswamitra's intensity as he was gaining increase merit; Indra thought he himself would lose his seat to Viswamitra, so he sent Menaka to flirt and 'sport' with him to throw him off balance, thus pulling him of his tapas and break-up the strength being gained.

    Menaka was successful , and from their union a child was born. Yet Menaka left this daughter of hers along the banks of the river Malini, and departed. This child alone was protected by the vultures in the area, from harm (lions and tigers, rakshasa). This baby was found by the rishi Kanwa, of the kasyapa lineage (gotra).

    Due to finding the child unharmed and protected by the vultures, she was named Sakuntala [शकुन्तला]or bird protected [ from sakuntas or birds, and the root शकुनि śakuni or large bird]. Sakuntala was then raised by the muni in the forest with other rishi-s in a very Divine place.

    A King one day entered this forest and noticed its vibrancy, filled with flowers, saman hymns being chanted, brahmanas all around, chanting, japa, homam , etc. a very sacred retreat. This king was Dushamana, a descendent of Puru*, and he wanted to meet the rishi kanwa. At that time he was not at his residence, yet his daughter, Sakuntala, met him and honored him as a guest and as a monarch.

    The King was quite inquisitive as to how this great muni kanwa of high esthetic ranks and therefore a brahmacharin would have a child and break his celibacy. He asked Sakuntala, and she told the King the whole story of her past [Viswamitra + Menaka episode] and finally to the home of her father.

    The King, listening, became enchanted with Sakuntala, asked her [ after she completed the story] if she would be his wife. She suggested that he wait for Kanwa to return so it can be done properly, yet the King was adamant about this and convinced her to take his hand in marriage. Sakuntala said, under one condition: The King promise that when a son is born from this marriage that he would be the heir to the thrown. The King agreed, and in fact the marriage was consummated at that time.

    The King said he was now returning to his capitol, and in time would send for Sakuntala; That 'call' did not happen. Sakuntala gave birth to a boy with great virtue & strength. The rishi Kanwa's dwellers at his ashram seeing strength of this boy and his abilities called him Sarvadamana or the subduer of all. Rishi Kanwa said the time has come to go to the capitol, visit the King and for the boys installation of heir-apparent.

    When Sakuntala arrived at the palace and gained audience with the King, she said 'This is thy son O King! Let him be installed as the heir apparent'. The King said, I do not recall this... and who are you, this wicked woman in ascetic clothing? I do not remember having any connection with you , so go or stay or do as you please.

    Well , Sakuntala was aghast at this. Her anger rose as her eyes turned to copper and her lips quivered. for the next 2 1/2 pages Sakuntala states her argument to the King, and is very caustic to him to say the least. Yet the King continues to say I do not recall what you say and women generally speak untruths. He also goes out of his way to find fault with her mother Menaka.

    Sakuntala finishes her rational yet passionate speech, then left his presence. Upon that happening a voice came from the sky and said the following to the king, as his priests and ministers too were gathered: 'The mother is but a sheath of flesh, the son spring from the father is the father himself. Therefore Dushmana cherish thy son and insult not Sakuntala. You are the progenitor of this boy and Sakuntala has spoken the truth. Because this child is to be cherished by you let him be known as Bharata, the cherished.'

    As you would expect this puts a different spin on the existing condition, yes? Yet the King's logic is interesting. He said I knew all along this boy was my son. If I would have taken this son on Sakuntala's words alone, unknown to the people in my kingdom, they would have been suspicious of this event and would have seen Sarvadamana as impure. Yet having the celestial messenger arrive, he established the purity of the boy.

    To this, the King then welcomed Bharata with open arms, and had pacifying words for Sakuntala. He explained his concern of having his affair privately with her back when he first met her and had concerns of his people. That is, the kingdom may have supposed their union was only lustfully driven and would make , in the eyes of the kingdom an impure birth, thus affecting his heir-apparent rule on the throne. The King then formally installed Bharata as the heir.

    Bharata came to be known as Sarvadamana or the subduer of all & Cakravarti i.e. a ruler of whose chariot wheels roll everywhere without obstruction; emperor, sovereign of the world.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    * Puru descendent was Ilina . He married Rathantra had 5 sons - Dushmanta, Sura, Bhima, Pravasu and Vasu. Dusamantra was the eldest and became King. Ilina's father was Tansu; His father was Matinara; His father Anadhristi , his original name was Richeyu and in his day was the sole monarch of the earth; His father, Kaudraswa, wed an apsara named Misrakesi, and had 10 sons, Richeyu was 1 of the 10. This continues backwards until we arrive at Puru and his wife Paushti, that starts the family line. The Puru line can then be tracked back to the monarch Yayati a key ancestor, 10th from Prajapati:

    King Yayati had 1 wife and another, concubine. Yayati married the daughter of Sukra ( Venus) the Brahmana of the Asuras and had children Yadu and Turvasu. Yayati also had children with Sarmishtha, the daughter of the Asura King Vrishaparvan. This encounter produced Druhyu, Anu and Puru. Due to Yaytai's mischief ( even though he was enticed by Sarmishtha , as she wanted children but had no husband), Sukra inflicted a curse on Yayata and the King lost his youth. Yayati asked all 5 children if he could trade his old age for their youth and the only one that agreed as Puru. After 1000 years, Yayati returned the youth to Puru and gave him his kingdom, the youngest of all the brothers.

    So if one tracks back from Yayati, he is 10th removed from Daksha, the originator.
    [ Daksha -> Aditi->Vivaswat->Manu->Ili->Puruavas->Ayus->Nahusha->Yayati->Puru ]

    Aditi was wife of Kasyapa, and Kasyaspa was son of Marichi. Marichi was the one of 6 spiritual sons of Brahma. With Kashyap this group is referred to as saptrishi's or saptarşi , the 7 rishi's. I Have seen different lists of the 7. Most all agree on the 6 named as Angiras, Pulastya, Kratu, Marichi, Atri, Pulahu. Yet at times I see Vasisthta or Kashapa added to make the 7. This is the connection all the way back to the origin of creation.

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 22 November 2011 at 06:20 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Bishma - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    As we continue looking at the lineage of the personages in the Mahabharata, I thought the next person to consider is Bishma. We will look at others yet our next stop is the great bishma, as he plays a major strategic role in the Mahabharata.

    भीष्मbhīṣma terrible, effrayant , fearful
    Bishma's (beesh-mah) other names are Devavrata, Gangadatta and Dyu.
    He is one of the 8 Vasus, the celestials. How did he come to this earth and what was the circumstances?

    The 8 vasus* were wandering in the woods with their wives. They came upon a cow. This cow was the off-spring of Kashyapa and Surabhi ( the daughter of the great Daksha). Its name was Nandini ( We know her as Nandi). His is the cow of plenty with the ability of granting ones desires. The wife if Dyu said lets give this cow to an earth fiend of mine and by drinking Nandi's milk will not have to ever suffer disease and old age.m Dyu also said that this cow was in owned by a great rishi, yet Dyu wanted to please his wife.
    The owner of this cow is the rishi Vasishtha* ( वासिष्ठ vāsiṣṭha) and also known as rishi Apava. Upon his return to his hermitage he noted Nandi was missing and applying his 'vision' seen the offenders - the vasus. He was instantly beside himself and cursed them then to be born on earth.

    Once the vasus became aware of this, they came to Vasishtha-ji post haste. The vasus tried to pacify the rishi yet he would have none of it. He did though say, you will be all free of my curse less Dyu within one year after your birth's on earth. For Dyu he must stay longer. He will be virtuous and knowledgeable of the scriptures and an obedient son. Yet he will not have female companionship or children. Vasishtha then left.
    So now the vasus are thinking , we must be born of this earth. Yet we do not want to be children with any random mother. They approached the Queen of the Rivers, Ganga, and asked while she was on earth, they could be born of her.

    Why was Ganga to become human too? To fulfill another curse given to King Santanu while he was a royal sage named Mahabhisha. He was condemned to earth for looking upon Ganga when her garments were blown off and did not cast his eyes away. for this infraction, off to earth he goes, and Ganga is to be reborn there to, to give him infractions, repaying his insolence.

    So both Mahabhisha and Ganga are born here on tera-firma [earth]. Santanu is born son of a King (Pratipa) of the Puru line [ see the 1st posting on the Puru race ], and takes the throne in due course. While outhunting he ran across a beautiful woman, and this was Ganga in the flesh. There wasn't much dating I gather in those days, and King Santanu asked her to be his wife. Ganga said, yes, but under these conditions - 'you must not interfere with anything I do , agreeable or disagreeable. And you will not address me unkindly. If this should occur I will certainly leave you'. To this the King agreed.

    Both enjoyed each others company. Ganga started having children, the father, Santanu. The couple had 8 children ( as per the vasus agreement with Ganga). Yet each time one as born Ganga would take the babe to the river, throw the new babe in and say 'This is for thy good'. Since they were born on earth, they did not want to stay a minute longer then needed so Ganga did the honors, knowing full well the origin of these babes. The King was beside himself, yet was tied by his agreement to Ganga that he could not act without the liability of losing his lovely wife.
    Yet when they got to their 8th child, Santanu could not take it any more and said ' Kill it not!' Why do you kill your own children! Your sins are great!' As you can tell that broke the contract with Ganga. On that note Ganga tells the King who she really is, and the agreement she had with the 8 vasus.

    The one child left was named Gangadatta. In the original agreement with Ganga the 8 vasus agreed to each contribute 1/8th of their energies that would remain in the last vasu that remained on earth - this was Dyu who now became Gangadatta. Ganga then left, 'disappeared' and took Gangadatta. He was also given two other names - Devavrata and Gangeya ( short for Gangadatta).

    Now we have a sorrowful Santanu without a wife and without Devavrata. Santanu , really being Mahabhisha. a royal sage of the celestials was renown in all the worlds as Santanu. He was wise, spoke the truth ,of the highest virtues . He was the protector of the Bharata race and all human beings...e.g. a bull among men as the Vayasa would say. All the earths kings look to Santanu. During his reign all was good, peaceful, achievements occurred, proper religious acts occurred, all knew their dharma.

    On day as Santanu walked along the Ganges he saw a youth checking ( altering the flow) of the river. Santanu did not recognize him as he only seen him for minutes after his birth some years ago. Yet Devavrata new his father in an instant. He chose not to reveal himself and disappeared from sight. The King then addressed the river Ganges as the devi Ganga and said 'show me that child'. Ganga appeared holding the King's son. The King did not recognize Ganga as a devi. She spoke ' This is the 8th son. Know I have raised him with care. He has studied with Vasistha the Vedas and their branches. He has superior intelligence, he is conversant with and skilled with all weapons. Both the deva's and the asuras look upon him favorably - take him home.

    Now we have Santanu and his son back together. Four years pass and Santanu is out along the banks of the Yamuna river, he picks up a sweet sent in the air and wants to find out where it's coming from. He follows it, and ends up meeting the daughter of a fisherman - Satyavati ( we will talk fully of her later). As usual Santanu is possessed of her beauty and wants to take her as his wife. He goes to Satyavati's father and asks for his best wishes for this marriage to occur. The father, says if you agree to this condition… So one more time Santanu is has a condition he must meet. That is, the son born of him and Satyavati must be the heir to the throne, no other, no competition.
    The king pondered this and knew this would put in jeopardy Devavrata's assent to the throne. The king of wise merit did not make this promise and left, yet thinking of Satyavati's beauty, sweet looks and smell all the time.

    While at home Devavrata notes his father's grief and asks what is the issue. Santanu takes Devavrata through his dilemma and sorrow. Devavrata left and pondered this issue and chose on his own to go visit the fisherman and the father of Satyavati. They talk and the key blockage again is having the child born of Satyavati be heir. The father said Satyavati's virtue is worthy of the Kings marriage and comes from a celebrated race. He has rejected many Brahmariashi's looking for Satyavati hand in marriage.

    Devavrata then thought of what would be befitting for his father and said to the fisherman, let me remove then any obstacles for the marriage to occur. The son born of Satyavati and Santanu will be king. Devavratta said, 'there is not a man born that will take this vow that I relinquish my right to the throne and adopt the vow of brahmachara' that is, Devavrata says he will not have children let alone a wife.
    [ Note that this vow also fulfills the proclimation/curse of Vishista given to Dyu way back in the story].

    This ends all questions on the heir apparent that would be born of Santya vati and Santanu. The fisherman bestowed Satyavati to Devatavrata's care. Immediately after flowers came down from the heavens , from the apsaras, the devas and rishis upon the head of Devavratra and these celestials proclaimed ' This one is Bishma [ the terrible]' . And when Bishma delivered Satyavati to his father amongst the kings assembled in Hastinapura, and they heard of his vow, they too proclaimed 'He is really Bishma'.


    On that note his father , being really of celestial origin gave to his son death upon his will only saying, 'Death shall never come to thee as long as you have the desire to live'. Death will only approach you, upon your command'.
    And so we see how Bishma got his name, his origin and the boon of long life, as long as he wished it.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    According to Yâjyavalkya muni the 8 vasus are: Agni (fire), Prithivî (earth), Vâyu (air), Antariksha (sky), Âditya (sun), Dyu (heaven), Kandramas (moon), the Nakshatras (stars)

    Courtesy of sarabhanga's previous post in the etymology of the rishis:
    vasu means "excellent, good, beneficent, or sweet", particularly indicating "a ray of light".
    वासिष्ठ vasiSTha is the superlative of vasu ; vasiSTha is "most excellent, best, or most wealthy", and particularly "the illumination or light".
    vasiSTha is "the best of Gods" or "lord of the AdityA", and especially "the lord (or whole body) of eight vasava" or "the master of all 33 devA".


    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 October 2010 at 08:06 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast


    I continue my reading and study of this great work. For those that also are reading this or have read this in the past, here is one site that offers the MB's ( Mahabharata ) characters from a leadership point of view. Vyasa's work is so comprehensive it has multiple levels of learning.

    All insights are welcomed as I pursue unravelling the personalities of each character and player in the MB. you will find some interesting insights from this authors post.http://www.boloji.com/hinduism/043.htm

    I was pleasantly impressed by his insight on Bishma, let alone Draupadi, Kunti and Satyavati. He has captured more of a worldly view, yet it gives good insight.

    Any sites or books [definition consortium] that give the symbols to the characters ( Drona, Karna, Bishma, Draupada, Vidura, the King, etc) is greatly welcomed.

    Atma jeyah sada rajna tato jeyashca shatravah
    Ajitatma narapatirvijayeta katham ripun
    “First the raja shall conquer enemies.
    He who has not conquered himSELF, how will that raja succeed in conquering enemies?”

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 March 2013 at 09:20 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: The 5th Veda - Vishnu Sahasranamam

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Vishnuh -The term Vishnu is rooted in the sukta:Veveshti Vyaapnoti iti Vishnuh - That which pervades everywhere is Vishnu

    In the Mahabharata. Yudhisthira, the eldest of the Pandavas, apporaches Bishma the grandsire of the Kuru family. He is lying half-slain, on a bed of arrows ( in and through him). As he was gifted by his father with choosing his time of death,
    he awaits the proper muhurta to leave this earth.

    At this time Yudhisthira approaches him and with the proper permissions asks Bishma 6 questions [ see below]. The answer to the 6 questions manifests the Vishnu Sahasranamam or 1000 names of Visnu, and the proper approach of doing this vrata or sadhana .

    This site not only outlines the total Vishnu Sahasranamam, but gives important word meanings. A rare & excellent offer IMHO, for those that wish to get deeper then just the verbiage.
    http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivkuma/music/vishnu-sahasranamam-meanings.htm

    6 questions posed
    • Who is the greatest Lord in the world (lokas or all worlds) ?
    • Who is the one (ekam) refuge for all?
    • By glorifying whom can man reach the Auspiciousness (shubam or peace and prosperity)?
    • By worshipping whom can a man reach Auspiciousness (peace and prosperity)?
    • What is, in thy opinion, the Greatest Dharma?
    • By doing japa of what can "creatures" (jantu) go beyond the bonds (bandhanaath) of samsara?
    Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 October 2010 at 08:06 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: The 5th Veda - Krsna Describes Maheswara

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    I thought perhaps a few of you may enjoy reading how Krsna describes Maheswara. This is from the Anusadana Parva, Section CLXI (or section 161 if my Roman numerals are correct.)
    ________________________________________________________________
    Vasudeva (Krsna) said, 'O mighty-armed Yudhishthira, listen to me as I recite to thee the many names of Rudra as also the high blessedness of that high-souled one.

    The Rishis describe Mahadeva as Agni , and Sthanu, and Maheswara; as one-eyed, and three-eyed, of universal form, and Siva or highly auspicious. Brahmanas conversant with the Vedas say that that god has two forms.

    · One of these is terrible, and the other mild and auspicious. Those two forms again, are subdivided into many forms.
    · That form which is fierce and terrible is regarded as identical with Agni and Lightning and Surya. The other form which is mild and auspicious is identical with Righteousness and water and Chandramas.
    · Then, again, it is said that half his body is fire and half is Soma (or the moon). That form of his which is mild and auspicious is said to be engaged in the practice of the Brahmacharya vow. The other form of his which is supremely terrible is engaged in all operations of destruction in the universe.
    · Because he is great (Mahat) and the Supreme Lord of all (Iswara), therefore he is called Maheswara. And since he burns and oppresses, is keen and fierce, and endued with great energy, and is engaged in eating flesh and blood and marrow, he is said to be Rudra.
    · Since he is the foremost of all the deities, and since his dominion and acquisitions are very extensive, and since he protects the extensive universe, therefore he is called Mahadeva. Since he is of the form or colour of smoke, therefore he is called Dhurjati.
    · Since by all his acts he performs sacrifices for all and seeks the good of every creature, therefore he is called Siva or the auspicious one. Staying above (in the sky) he burns the lives of all creatures and is, besides, fixed in a particular route from which he does not deviate.
    · His emblem, again, is fixed and immovable for all time. He is, for these reasons, called Sthanu.
    · He is also of multiform aspect. He is present, past, and future. He is mobile and immobile. For this he is called Vahurupa (of multiform aspect).
    · The deities called Viswedevas reside in his body. He is, for this, called Viswarupa (or universal form). He is thousand-eyed; or, he is myriad-eyed; or, he has eyes on all sides and on every part of his body, His energy issues through his eyes. [We can see from this why rudraksha is of great importance. Also thousand eyes is another way of saying there is no place that He is not ]
    · There is no end of his eyes. Since he always nourishes all creatures and sports also with them, and since he is their lord or master, therefore he is called Pasupati (the lord of all creatures).
    · Since his emblem is always observant of the vow of Brahmacharya, all the worlds worship it accordingly. This act of worship is said to gratify him highly.
    · If there is one who worship him by creating his image, another who worships his emblem, the latter it is that attains to great prosperity for ever. The Rishis, the deities, the Gandharvas, and the Apsaras, worship that emblem of his which is ever erect and upraised [ i.e. siva-lingam ]. If his emblem is worshipped, Maheswara becomes highly gratified with the worshipper.
    · Affectionate towards his devotees, he bestows happiness upon them with a cheerful soul. This great god loves to reside in crematoria and there he burns and consumes all corpses. Those persons that perform sacrifices on such grounds attain at the end to those regions which have been set apart for heroes. Employed in his legitimate function, it is he That is regarded as the Death that resides in the bodies of all creatures.
    · He is, again, those breaths called Prana and Apana in the bodies of all embodied beings. He has many blazing and terrible forms. All those forms are worshipped in the world and are known to Brahmanas possessed of knowledge. Amongst the gods he has many names all of which are fraught with grave import. Verily, the meanings of those names are derived from either his greatness or vastness, or his feats, or his conduct.
    · The Brahmanas always recite the excellent Sata-rudriya in his honour, that occurs in the Vedas as also that which has been composed by Vyasa. Verily, the Brahmanas and Rishis call him the eldest of all beings. He is the first of all the deities, and it was from his mouth that he created Agni. That righteous-souled deity, ever willing to grant protection to all, never gives up his suppliants. He would much rather abandon his own life-breaths and incur all possible afflictions himself.
    Long life, health and freedom from disease, affluence, wealth, diverse kinds of pleasures and enjoyments, are conferred by him, and it is he also who snatches them away. The lordship and affluence that one sees in Sakra [Śakra = ‘powerful’, another name for Indra] and the other deities are, verily his. It is he who is always engaged in all that is good and evil in the three worlds. In consequence of his fullest control over all objects of enjoyment he is called Iswara (the Supreme Lord or Master). Since, again, he is the master of the vast universe, he is called Maheswara.

    The whole universe is pervaded by him in diverse forms. It is that deity whose mouth roars and burns the waters of the sea in the form of the huge mare's head!


    ॐनमःिशवाय


    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 03 November 2015 at 06:17 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata: this 18

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    As we look to the Mahabharata, the theme of 18 is repeated i.e.
    The total work is 18 paravas ( or books or divisions), there are 18 armies, the war is fought for 18 days, the Bhagavad gita is also made up of 18 chapters.
    Do you have an opinion on what Veda Vyasa [ Krsna-Dwaipayna] is teaching with this 18. The wise do not offer things by chance, and always save the breath.

    Any opinions on this matter?


    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 October 2010 at 08:07 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #7
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata: this 18

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    As we look to the Mahabharata, the theme of 18 is repeated i.e.
    The total work is 18 paravas ( or books or divisions), there are 18 armies, the war is fought for 18 days, the Bhagavad gita is also made up of 18 chapters.
    Do you have an opinion on what Veda Vyasa [ Krsna-Dwaipayna] is teaching with this 18.
    Here are my thoughts (conjecture) on this number 18. I am looking at this number through the 'optics' of Jyotish. Why so ?
    • Actions on this earth are greatly influenced by the grahas, that which binds; grAha ग्राह is seizing, holding, catching, receiving; seizure , grasping.
    • The sage Veda Vyasa [Krsna-Dwaipayna] is also the son of Parashara-muni. A rsi found in the Rig Veda and also the father of Jyotish; Veda Vyasa must be well aware of and adept applying jyotish principles.
    • And as mentioned in the post above - words, numbers, stories, sanketa (~symbols) are not random; the rsi's are mindful of their worlds and pregnant with meaning.
    From Jyotish
    Karaka कारक
    kAraka is the action making , doing , acting , who or what does or produces or creates. A kAraka is a significator or entity ( in this post a graha or ~ planet) that signifies various matters on this good earth.

    The number 18
    Note first that 18 is ashtadasa or 10 + 8. This 10 is therefore 1+0 = 1 and 8 is = 8. This points to the 1st and 8th houses.

    In jyotish, the 1st house is paramount; the kAraka of the first house is the Sun (Surya). The Sun is the king of all the Grahas. The Sun is the natural atmakarka , the indicator of the atma ( of soul, of Brahman, the SELF). It is also the indicator of power, of the king.

    In the Mahabharata it deals with royalty. If you look at the first post on this subject you will see this http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=21847#post21847.

    The Mahabharata also deals with Atman, the Universal SELF, and this is Krsna.

    The Sun is the kAraka of achievement, success, power, father ( as kAraka of the 10th house, 9th house, 5th house); The Mahabharata is deep in the success and progress overall, yet of power and who owns the kingdom. The notion of lineage, ones father (that of the past and the present) in the Mahabharata also plays a key role.

    Now this 8th house - It's significator is Saturn (Sani). He signifies troubles, losses, grief ( misery), ailments, imprisonment, gambling, association with cheats. We see this occur with the Pandava, yes? Losses ( at dice), their kingdom, their 12 years (imprisonment) in the forests, the war itself, and small wars gaining kingdoms, land, etc.

    Yet before we take the notion of Sani as being 'bad' this is not the case. Sani also is kAraka of working and following (service and livelihood), longevity ( or the lack there of), also renunciation and ascetics. We find these qualities in the Mahabharata lessons offered and the association with brahmana.

    We also note that Sani is opposed to Sun. So we have conditions of opposites in this number 18.

    Lets look a bit deeper
    This number 18 also = 9+9. This nine is significant in Jyotish because it is a Dharma house (bhava). A fiery house owned by Jupiter if we use Aries as the 1st sign the 9th there from is Sagittarius, owned by Jupiter, and Jupiter as the kAraka of the 9th house (bhava).

    What is at the core of Yudhishtrhira, also called Dharmaraj? Let us see...This 9th house has two kArakas , both Jupiter and the Sun. The 9th house owns: Dharma², fortune, wealth, religion, journeys, high minded wisdom, virture, gifts, sacrifices, charity, teachers and gurus. The Mahabharata Is filled with this as was Yudhishtrhira and the Pandava.

    Now this ninth house is Dhanu ( some write Dhanuh) or Sagittarius, owned by Jupiter. It is a place of royalty. How so? Each rasi or sign has a varNa ( वर्ण class; color;outward appearance , exterior , form , figure , shape) associated with it. We know them as brAhmana, kshatriya,vaishyas and sUdra. And in the Mahabhrata we talk of kings both past and present, the Pandhava, etc. this class is called out, that of kshatriya.

    In the Mahabharata what then is a one of the main themes we see? The dharma ( from dhr or that which upholds) of society and that duty the kshatriya needs to perform to uphold society overall.

    More can be said about this 9th house (bhava) that many hold in such high regard, but lets look at another rasi.

    The 9th from the 9th
    What is the 9th from the 9th ( that is jyotish speak for what house resides 9 houses away from the 9th house) - the 5th house. The 5th house is ( again) another dharma and kshatriya house. It's interesting to note that the natural 5th house ( Leo) Simha is owned by none other then the Sun. Yet the kAraka of the 5th bhava is Jupiter. When it comes to most excellent grahas in the heavens one points to the Sun and Jupiter.

    The 5th house indicates children - not only the Pandava , but King Dhritarashtra's101 sons and 1 daughter.

    The 5th house also indicates higher intelligence and wisdom. This can be seen with with examples from Yudhishtrhira's six¹ questions and Bishma's offer of Vishnu Sahasranamam or 1000 names of Visnu; Other examples point to the various teachings of Vidura to his King and the most notable 701 verses of the Bhagavad Gita, given by the Universal Atman, Krsna, to the child ( 5th house) of Indra, Arjuna.

    This 701 could be viewed as 7+0+1=8; 8th house is also a house of deeper truths, undisclosed knowledge, etc. Some opine that the Gita is 700 verses. I will leave it to the experts to solve.

    Another indicator of the 5th and Jupiter is the elder brother or the eldest child… this is quite interesting to me. The main character of the Mahabharata is Arjuna. Yet much of the 'motion and change' is due to his older brother, Yudhishtrhira³.

    And one could also make a point of Yudhishtrhira's older brother that he was not aware of, Karna. It was said that nobody, not even Arjuna, could equal Karna in archery. Is there more to the 5th house? Sure but lets leave it there for now.

    So, as I see it this 18, 10+8, or 9+9 was not a haphazard number selected by Krsna-Dwaipayna.

    Any additions, POV's or extentions to this matter is greatly welcomed.


    praṇām


    1. Six questions: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=16144&postcount=4
    2. The bhAghavataM says that there are only twelve men in the whole world who know the ins and outs of dharma in all its subtlety. These twelve are: BrahmA, the Creator; Narada, the roving sage; Lord Siva; Lord SubrahmaNya; the sage Kapila; Manu the law-giver; the boy-devotee Prahlada; King Janaka; Bishma; King Bali; the boy-sage Suka, the reciter of the bhAgavatam; and Yama, the Lord of Death and Dispenser of Justice.
    Thus Bishma happens to be one of the twelve most knowledgeable people on dharma. It was fitting therefore that when Yudhishtira, at the end of the mahabharata war wanted to know all the subtleties of all the different types of dharma, he was directed to go to Bhishma by Lord Krishna Himself.
    3. Yudhishtrhira was the eldest Pandava, son of King Pandu and Queen Kunti if we do not count Karna who was born first. His name is most excellent - it means yudhi or 'in battle' + sthira or 'steady, calm, unperturbed'; so Yudhishtrhira is he that is steady or unperturbed in battle.
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 October 2010 at 08:07 PM. Reason: spelling and arrangements
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #8
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I found this one section insightful, and also revealing...

    Yudhiṣṭhira (yudhishtrhira) is asking questions of bhīṣma (bishma) in the Anusasana Parva section of Mahābhārata.
    Yudhiṣṭhira asks bhīṣma numerous questions. Yet with a new round of conversation, bhīṣma tells yudhiṣṭhira, here comes bṛ́haspáti¹ (brihaspati or brahmanaspati, some also write Vrihaspati) - none else is better then explaining the matter that you have requested.

    Yudhiṣṭhira asks multiple questions - this begins with section CXI of the Anusasana Parva. Yet the one that is the intent of the post comes in section CXIII.
    Yudhiṣṭhira asks, 'absence of injury, the observance of yajya, meditation,etc. - which one of these are filled with the greatest merit for the individial?'

    Bṛ́haspáti talks of the merits of these virtues, yet says the following: One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one's own self. Where have we heard this before? He continues and says , this in brief is the rule of dharma.

    Just prior to this statement bṛ́haspáti says, that man who regards all creatures as his own self, and behaves towards them as towards one-self laying aside the rod of chastisement and completley subjugating his wrath, succeeds in attaining to happiness.

    praṇām


    1. bṛ́haspáti बृहस्पति - bṛ́has+ páti - lord of prayer or devotion; he is the chief offerer of prayers and sacrifices ; He is also Guru, the most benefical graha, Jupiter.
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 October 2010 at 08:07 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #9
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    218

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté

    In another post we refer to dice and it's application as a vehicle for wisdom. Many here are aware of the Mahābhārata and a game of dice; Yudhiṣṭhira loses his kingdom no less then twice.


    That said, lets take a look at at a most profound question:

    draupadī, who is dragged before the company by her hair, (an insult since a married woman’s hair is considered sacred) offers a profound question to the Kaurava-s: how can someone who has lost himself (Yudhiṣṭhira) wager someone else in a game? No one can answer her. Even bhīṣma¹ is confounded.

    What is being offered here? What is the wisdom? I must state I do not have the insight to reveal the light that is offered, but only have conjecture… what is your opinion on this matter?

    praṇām


    words
    • draupadī द्रौपदी - she is belonging to or descendant from drupada ; she is of kṛṣṇā - a noun of draupadī.
      • Some parts of her name offer the following: drā is to be in need - rooted in dru to run to.
      • pati is wife , yet pa is guarding , protecting - one would argue 'pa' is what is received from the wife's husband, no?
    • bhīṣma भीष्म - terrible, efferent , fearful; bhīṣma's (beesh-mah) other names are Devavrata, Gangadatta and Dyu. He is one of the 8 Vasus, the celestials. How did he come to this earth and what was the circumstances? More can be found at this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1882
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4723

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    draupad[/SIZE]ī[/FONT][/B], who is dragged before the company by her hair, (an insult since a married woman’s hair is considered sacred) offers a profound question to the Kaurava-s: how can someone who has lost himself (Yudhiṣṭhira) wager someone else in a game? No one can answer her. Even bhīṣma¹ is confounded.

    [FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3]What is being offered here? What is the wisdom?
    To me, there are many things to consider here :

    a) First of all, Yudhisthir has no right to use Draupadi as wager in the game of gambling, whether lost himself or not. Draupadi was his wife & not his property.
    b) If the above is true then how Yudhisthir allowed himself to behave in that manner. We cannot accept that he didn't know what he was doing .... Yudhisthir was incarnation of Dharma Himself. How can he commit this sin ? Not only this, this "sin" was not at all counted to his account. The only sin accrued to him was speaking of a half-truth on death of AswaththamA during war. Why this sin didn't accrue to him ?
    c) Even if Draupadi was lost to Kauravas in the gamble, she was still the respected daughter-in-law of DhritrAshtra & GAndhAri who were still alive & sitting in the court & witness to everything whatever was going on. Duryodhana's order to DuhshAshan to bring Draupadi by dragging her by hair to the court & also expression of his desire to make her sit on his lap was given in presence of both the parents-in-law. The matter becomes even more serious to think that when Draupadi was dragged to court in this manner, she was "rajswalA" (menstruating). Even BhIshma was a witness to all this. What were these people afraid of ? Can we accept that they were incapable of stopping this atrocity ? Let's not forget that even at that time, DhritrAstra was the King & not Duryodhana !
    ---------------------------------

    I think it was destined to happen to teach the coming generations a lesson.

    Draupadi faced this humiliation because of her sin of humiliating Duryodhna & others in Indraprashtha's palace when she had remarked, "They are blind like their father". Though it can be argued that she said this in jest being their "BhAbhi" (in Hindu families, the BhAbhi i.e. wife of one's elder brother & the "dewars" i.e. brothers of husband have a naughty relationship & it is considered ok to indulge in harmless provocation) but it did cross decency & for which she paid heavily.

    Gambling is bad & what can happen to a gambler was reflected in the sufferings of the PAndvAs. This was another lesson.

    The king must exercise his authority at the right opportunity & if he doesn't it would result in destruction. DhritrAshtra kept mum due to his love for his son & that caused the destruction of not only his kingdom but annihilation of all his 100 sons. This was another lesson.

    If the husband is weak in certain aspect, the wife must support him using her own wisdom & not become a handicapped & a meek follower of his husband. This lesson was learnt by GAndhAri who blindfolded herself fully knowing that her husband was blind ... She did it for her PAtivratya (devotion to her husband) but by doing this she couldn't give support to her husband what he needed most (seeing). If GAndhAri could see, perhaps she would have not allowed this heinous crime to happen. This was another lesson to be learnt.

    All the Kauravas learnt this lesson how much disastrous an act of humiliating a woman could be. They lost everything in the fire of vengeance. This was the biggest lesson to be learnt by all.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •