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Thread: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

  1. #31
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~


    namast VC,

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post
    I wonder what Bhishma says about fear.
    Bhīṣma-ji talks of fear and I will post at another time. That said, here is what the taittirīya upaniṣad offers on fear :
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...8&postcount=32

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #32
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
     
    namast�

    In post number 7 above I offered my view on why 18 is a significant number in the mahābhārata i.e. 18 chapters, 18 days of fighting, etc. Let me extend this idea just a bit more:

    I wrote on another post:
    • the pāṇḍva army lost 7 akśauhini-s�
    • the kaurava army lost 11 akśauhini-s
    • Total 18 akśauhini-s lost ; total kṣatriya deaths at ~ 3.54 million in 18 days


    Note that 1 akśauhini = 21,870 chariots ; 21,870 elephants; 65,610 horse-mounted warriors and 109,350 infantry, as per the mahābhārata;

    Now if we add each number :
    21,870 or 2+1+8+7+0 = 18
    65,610 or 6+5+6+1+0 = 18
    109,350 or 1+0+9+3+5+0 =18
     
    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 03 November 2015 at 05:10 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #33
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
     
    namasté

    Have you ever wondered what becomes of the pāṇḍava-s? We know of their decent to various regions ~ heaven/hell ~ ; yet I wondered their final position in creation.
    I read this dialog in the mahābhārata (śanti parvan) where yudhiṣṭhira asks bhīṣma, with regards to ourselves (the pāṇḍava) we are afflicted and attached to the objects that are productive of sorrow, indifference or joy ( the 3 guna-s). What will be the end to which we shall attain?

    bhīṣma -ji says the following - you are the pāṇḍava-s. You have been born in a stainless race. Having sported in the regions of the deva-s¹ you will come back to the world of men. Living happily as long as creation lasts at the next new creation you will be admitted among the deva-s and enjoy all kinds of felicities and will be at last numbered ( attainment) among the siddha-s¹. Let no fear be yours, be cheerful.

    Now I am not certain of the final outcome of draupadī ( kṛṣṇā draupadī ), but will be looking out for this as I continue to study the mahābhārata.

    praṇām

    words
    • deva-s - the heavenly or shining ones. Many talk of the víśve-devā́s or all all the gods collectively .
      • Some talk of a class of deities often counted as 33 i.e. 11 for each of the 3 worlds or tri-daśa.hey are counted as the 8 vasus , 11 rudras , and 12 ādityas + 2 aśvins are added.
      • Another view of the viśve-deva-s or is the following: According to the viṣṇu purāṇas they were sons of viśvā , daughter of dakṣa , and their names are : 1. vasu , 2. satya , 3. kratu , 4. dakṣa , 5. kāla , 6. kāma , 7. dhṛti , 8. kuru , 9. purū-ravas , 10. mādravas ; two others are added by some 11. rocaka or locana and 12. dhvani or dhūri . They are particularly worshipped at śrāddhas and at the vaiśvadeva ceremony.
      • ** I am unclear on how to descern whether the expression viśve devāḥ refers to all the gods or to the particular group of deities mentioned above
    • A siddha on earth is considered a being of great purity and perfection and said to possess the eight supernatural faculties, Yet there are others.
      • The siddha-s inhabit, together with the muni-s, bhuvar-loka between the earth and heaven. The viṣṇu purāṇas suggest that 88,000 of them occupy the regions of the sky north of the sun and south of the seven ṛṣis ; they are regarded as immortal , but only as living to the end of a kalpa sometimes this notion of a siddha is
      • sometimes siddha-s are confused with the sādhya-s or take their place when mentioning divine beings.
      • sādhyas are ' they that are to be propitiated' . A class of celestial beings belonging to the gaṇa-devatā sometimes mentioned in the veda; Their world is said to be above the sphere of the gods ; according to yāska their locality is the bhuvar-loka between the earth and sun ; The sādhyas are described as created after the gods with natures exquisitely refined. In the purāṇas they are sons of sādhyā , and their number varie between twelve and seventeen.
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 May 2011 at 08:31 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #34
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Here is some information for your consideration. An early reference i.e. itihāsapurāṇaṃ pacamaṃ vedānāṃ is called out in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad (7.1.2); It reads like this (Nārada is speaking to Sanatkumāra-ji); Revered sir I have learned the ṛgveda, yajurveda, samāveda, the atharvaveda the 4th, the itihāsa-s and purāṇa-s as the 5th veda, etc. etc.


    The Mahābhārata is classified as itihāsa (history) , and hence Nārada's reference to it as the 5th.


    Another reference is in the Mahābhārata itself. Ādi (first) Parva (division or section) , says the following: The learned man who recites to others this veda of Vyāsa (Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana) reaps advantage.

    Hence the epithet of it considered a 5th veda.



    "Whatever is here ( in the Mahābhārata) is found elsewhere. But whatever is not here (in the Mahābhārata) is nowhere else."


    praṇām

    Do you think section 98 of the adi Parva also has relevance to this where it is stated that, "This [Bharata] is equal unto the Vedas: it is holy and excellent. It bestoweth wealth, fame, and life. Therefore, it should be listened to by men with rapt attention."
    The Vedas declared that the son rescueth the father from a hell called Put. ~ Celestials [Sec. 231 of Adi Parva - Mahabharata]

  5. #35
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    We know veda vyāsa muni is a very special being. He authored the mahābhārata along with 18 major puraṇa-s , succinctly arranged the veda's into a 4 book structure and is said to be the author of the brahma sūtra-s.
    Veda vyāsa is more of a title then actual name. Vyāsa means 'arranger, compiler'. Hence the 'arranger, compiler' of the veda-s.
    But there is more to this muni then meets the eye. Let me offer a few ideas for your review.

    Vyāsa's name is kṛṣṇa dvaipāyana.
    • Kṛṣṇa= dark in complexion and dvaipāyana suggests where vyāsa was born in the following place:
      • dvi द्वि is 2 ;
      • pāya पाय is water
      • dvipa द्विप is drinking twice and dvīpa द्वीप an island , peninsula , sandbank.
    • Hence born on an island where two rivers join or meet.
    But there is more. Vyāsa's father was the great muni we find in the ṛg veda , mahāṛṣi parāśar ( some just say parāśara), and the father of jyotish. His mother was satyavatī . Her name means truthful or speaking the truth , yet too it also means 'of a river'. Note vyāsa's name 'dvaipāyana' also means between two rivers. Yet too there is more 'water' to follow.

    So this vyāsa is not only prolific when it comes to 'arranging and compiling', he is also a blessed being on this good earth. How so? According to vyāsa¹, when his students asked him of his origin he tells them that brahama the creator asked for help from hari (nārāyaa) to take on his role as creator. Hari continues to talk of times when He will incarnate to rescue the world from time-to-time. Upon His talk he uttered the sound bhū and the whole atmosphere resounded (vibrated) with it.
    From that sound arose the ṛṣi sarasvat - the son born of speech of nārāyaṇa . We once more note that this name sarasvat means abounding in or connected with ponds, a river, a sea. This ṛṣi sarasvat is also called apāntaratamas --> apān+tara+tamas = to breathe out, expire + surpassing, conquering + darkness,ignorance.
    This ṛṣi could see past, present and future events. He was assigned by nārāyaṇa Himself to be the distributor of the veda-s .


    He informs apāntaratamas that in the age of kali he will take birth from the congress of mahāṛṣi parāśar and satyavatī . Because it is the dark age ( kali) he too will be dark complected (kṛṣṇa).

    The Lord tells ṛṣi apāntaratamas that with each manvantara (the period or age of a manu which comprises about 71 mahā-yugas )
    it will be his actions to distribute and arrange the veda-s i.e. be a vyāsa. He says much-much more, but this gives you the lineage of kṛṣṇa dvaipāyana to veda vyāsa to Lord nārāyaṇa.

    If we look to another pace - the brahma sūtra-s (3.3.33) says,
    as long as the mission is not completed/fulfilled there is existence of those that have a mission.

    That is, even for those that are completely realized beings, they can be re-born i.e. perfected beings may be reborn for the fulfillment of some Divine mission.

    This is the rationale behind ṛṣi apāntaratamas who is vyāsa-ji eon after eon. It is also sanatkumāra-ji we find as skanda. Are there others ? No doubt.


    Back to water ...
    Note the connection with water, rivers ocean i.e. sarasvat, dvaipāyana, satyavatī and finally nārāyaṇa .


    • नार nāra is water ( also relating to or proceeding from man)
    • āyana is approaching and ayana is a path, way, or progress.
    Let me ask the HDF reader for your POV - what is this connection to water? Is there a meaning or is it just coincidence?

    o namo nārāyaaya
    नमोनारायणय


    praṇām

    reference : Mahābhārata , śanti parvan II, section CCCL (150)
    Last edited by yajvan; 15 May 2012 at 11:09 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #36
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    During the day, one can be considered engaged in or at kurukṣhetra. We know this word to mean the field ( kṣetra) of the kuru's¹. We know that the 18 day war outlined in the mahābhārata occurred here.

    Yet with further inspection on this word kuru it also means kartāras or 'doers' and this is rooted in (√) kṛ ( or kri) . This kṛ is quite a profound an robust root sound in saṃskṛtam, ( properly saṃskṛtā ). Yet in its simplest definition it means to do , make , perform , accomplish , cause , effect , prepare , undertake . Hence on 1st inspection this word is viewed as the field of the kuru's, yet it also means the field ( kṣetra ) of doing (kṛ).

    We as humanbeings are engaged in the field of doing both internally and externally to our bodies. That is, we engage in work, play, family, fun, thoughts,finances, worry, happiness, good behaviors, bad behaviors, etc. etc. on a daily basis. We reside in the field of action (kurukṣhetra). This is one of many lessons the mahābhārata teaches us.

    So, when one comes home for the day and is about to retire for the night, is there any reflection on what one did during the day? Did your actions promote clarity of mind, or retard it? Did one practice their sādhana ? Did one engage in the 'game of dice' i.e. delusion, of what is real and unreal? Did one spend time with any of king dhritarāshtra's (some write dhṛtarāṣṭra) 100 sons?

    Who are some of these sons? Material desire, anger, rath, lust, dis-honesty, harshness of speech, arrogance, selfishness, etc. Did you meet with any of the sons of pāṇḍu¹ ( purity , from pāṇḍ, suggesting white).

    Who then is this king dhritarāshtra ( as a symbol) and his first born son, duryodhana, then ? And pāṇḍu and his sons the pāṇḍavas ?
    We will discuss some of these notions in the upcoming posts.

    Yet when you are home is there reflection of where you spent your time ? Was the day a maze of activity and you finally end up in bed ? When you look back on the battle of the day ( kurukṣhetra ) who won? Who gained?

    The whole of the mahābhārata by vyāsa-ji¹ is quite profound and teaches by symbolism, analogies, hints (saṃketa),etc. with various esoteric meanings for one's learning .
    Every now and then a door of insight opens and lets the light ( meaning) come in. This light has been revealed by many authors from different disciplines. Yet new insights have been offered by the writings of svāmī paramahaṃsa yogānaṃda-ji ( some write paramahansa yogananda). For this I am blessed to read some of his work that was delivered via a friend. Any blemishes regarding some of the ideas and definitions, symbols and the like are fully mine.

    praṇām

    words
    • kurukṣhetra
    kuru - of a people of India and of their country situated near the country of the pañcāla-s ; hence often connected with pañcāla or pañcāla ; The uttara-kuravaḥ , (or uttarāḥ kuravaḥ) are the northern kurus , the most northerly of the four mahā-dvīpas or principal divisions of the known world, distinguished from the dakṣiṇāḥ kuravaḥ or southern kurus.
    • pāṇḍu - a son of vyāsa by the wife of vicitra-vīrya and brother of dhṛta-rāṣṭra and vidura - he was father of the five pāṇḍavas.
    • Veda Vyāsa is the one who compiled the veda-s and is also known as Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana ;
      • Kṛṣṇa= dark in complexion and Dvaipāyana suggests where Vyāsa was born:
      • dvi द्वि is 2 ; pāya पाय is water dvipa द्विप is drinking twice and dvīpa द्वीप an island , peninsula , sandbank.
      • Hence born on an island where two rivers join or meet
    Last edited by yajvan; 03 October 2010 at 07:43 PM. Reason: spelling corrections ( oooops)
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #37
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Who then is this king dhritarāshtra ( as a symbol) and his first born son, duryodhana, then ? And pāṇḍu and his sons the pāṇḍavas ?
    We will discuss some of these notions in the upcoming posts.

    The whole of the mahābhārata by vyāsa-ji is quite profound and teaches by symbolism, analogies, hints (saṃketa),etc. with various esoteric meanings for one's learning .


    The continuation of these ideas will be offered at this HDF post site: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=51777#post51777


    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #38

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~
     
    namasté

    In post number 7 above I offered my view on why 18 is a significant number in the mahābhārata i.e. 18 chapters, 18 days of fighting, etc. Let me extend this idea just a bit more:

    I wrote on another post:
    • the pāṇḍva army lost 7 akśauhini-s¹
    • the kaurava army lost 11 akśauhini-s
    • Total 18 akśauhini-s lost ; total kṣatriya deaths at ~ 3.54 million in 18 days

    Note that 1 akśauhini = 21,870 chariots ; 21,870 elephants; 65,610 horse-mounted warriors and 109,350 infantry, as per the mahābhārata;

    Now if we add each number :
    21,870 or 2+1+8+7+0 = 18
    65,610 or 6+5+6+1+0 = 18
    109,350 or 1+0+9+3+5+0 =18
     
    praām
    Excellent analysis yajvan-ji, I'm so grateful to you for bringing to light this number 18 pattern.

    The Mahabharata has 1.8 million words altogether and 18 episodes

    the Bhagavad Gita has 18 chapters

    Barbarika, son of Ghatotghaj or also written as Ghatotkacha witnessed the 18 days of action at Kurukshetra

    The authorized Upanishads are considered to be 108 in number - 1+0+8 = 18

    The Mahapuranas and Upapuranas are also said to be 18 each

    It is said that Veda Vyasa is the author of Mahabharata, Brahma Sutras and Puranas.

    So also what about the Brahma Sutras?

    as for 18

    Brahma Sutras contain 555 aphorisms

    5 + 5 + 5 = 15 + (5 is added together 3 times) 3 = 18

    or alternatively

    5 x 5 x 5 = 125

    1 + 2 + 5 = 8

    (5 is multiplied against itself 2 times) 10

    8 + 10 = 18

    yet I am not satisfied

    For me I calculated a pattern relating to 31 showing up (just trial)



    Brahma Sutras contain 555 aphorisms in all

    in total 4 chapters each further divided into 4 phalas

    4 chapters x 4 padas = 16

    18 can be 6 x 3 or 9 x 2

    6 : 3
    9 : 2

    15 : 5

    4 x 5 = 20 x 5 = 100 x 5 = 500

    620

    16 x 5 = 80 x 5 = 400 x 5 = 2000

    2480

    2480
    620
    3100

    5+5+5 = 15 + 16 (4 chapters x 4 padas) = 31

    *EDIT* (I was reading my post again, and it just suddenly dawned upon me)

    interestingly if you reverse "31", you get "13"

    and if you substract 13 from 31, you get 18

    wow I was wondering why I decided to keep this number 31 calculation, even though its not "18" and possibly could not have any relation to it, deriving that number.

    Om Namo Narayana!
    Last edited by Kumar_Das; 09 October 2010 at 09:48 AM. Reason: added spelling, huh I was supposed to type "pada" instead of "phala", why did I do that?

  9. #39

    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    or alternatively

    5 x 5 x 5 = 125

    1 + 2 + 5 = 8

    (5 is multiplied against itself 2 times) 10


    ...
    5 x 5 x 5 = 125

    another way would be

    1 x 2 x 5 = 10 + [1 + 2 + 5] 8 = 18

  10. #40
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata: the number 12

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Another number that appears in the mahābhārata is 12.
    • The pāṇḍava-s are exiled for 12 years + 1 year in hiding. If recognized while in hiding then they were to return for another 12 years to the forest.
    • There is the 'touch sacrifice' - If vāsava ( indra) does not pour rain for these twelve years, I shall then perform the Touch-sacrifice.
    • in 12 days one becomes cleansed of all sin
    • the 12 year sacrifice , one becomes cleansed of sin , being so efficacious
    There are many more we can list out and the one that is top of mind is from the rāmāyaṇa : śrī rām and sīta have been married for twelve years rāmaḥ is then to become king, yet this does not occur and
    and He is exiled ( for him 14 years).

    What is it about this number 12? Here are my views on this matter.
    • The 12th house is that of mokṣa.
    • The 12 house has multiple kāraka-s¹ that indicate confinement or seclusion, knowledge, mokṣa, foreign travels, sorrows or the loss of sorrows.
    • Yet there is more. Who owns the 12th house in the natural zodiac ? It is Jupiter, bṛ́has-páti बृहस्पति bráhmanas-páti - lord of prayer , chief offerer of prayer and yajya (worship). It is he that is the natural owner.
    • How many earth years does it take for Jupiter to orbit the sun? 11.86 years or ~12 years~. How many days does that equal? 4332.
      4+3+3+2= 12.
    This 12 as Jupiter, known as guru, a grāhaka - one who seizes or takes captive, is the one that brings meaningful change to the person, to the aspirant, the sādhu.
    And this improvement comes in twelve's, a full cycle for guru to transit all the houses , all areas of life.

    Svāmī paramahaṃsa yogānaṃda-ji says¹ the following: Once bad sense habits are well established in the body the free will of wisdom is banished ( exiled, my word not svāmī-ji's ) for at least 12 years. Firm establishment of good new habits are often only possible in 12 years. In 12 year cycles man slowly advances his spiritual evolution.

    There is much much more we can discuss . This 12 is 1+2 = 3 and the 3 is found throughout vedic literature. This 12 = 4 x 3 and one's birth chart is made up of 3 cycles of the 4 area's of life, puruṣārtha¹.

    But what of the pāṇḍava-s, exiled for 12 years + 1 year in hiding. What of this 1 year of 'hiding' , what is the significance?

    praṇām

    words & references
    • kāraka - doer, indicator, some like to call significator.
    • Svāmī paramahaṃsa yogānaṃda - from his bhāgavad gītā translation pg. xli
    • puruṣārtha - the four aims of human existence - kāma , artha , dharma and mokṣa , final emancipation
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 July 2011 at 10:32 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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