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Thread: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

  1. #11
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté devotee,

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji,
    To me, there are many things to consider here :

    a) First of all, Yudhisthir has no right to use Draupadi as wager in the game of gambling, whether lost himself or not. Draupadi was his wife & not his property.
    b) If the above is true then how Yudhisthir allowed himself to behave in that manner. We cannot accept that he didn't know what he was doing .... Yudhisthir was incarnation of Dharma Himself. How can he commit this sin ? Not only this, this "sin" was not at all counted to his account. OM
    A very insightful post - thank you. To me, it suggests what can occur when loss of control occurs, even to the highest - Yudhiṣṭhira.

    If he did not own his self, then where is the authorship to own anything else? And as you mention, even if he did his reign does not include the 'ownership' of draupadī. Is the lesson 'what do we as humans really (really) own?'

    So I see a few lessons - on the material level, social level (dice playing) and spiritual level.

    On the spiritual level do you believe the loss of self was on the individual level (jiva) or the Universal level (SELF)? It is my humble belief that Vyāsa -ji has crafted this episode to offer insights into the workings of humans on many levels.

    I say this is due to the outcomes that occured and also that Kṛṣṇa informed bhīṣma not to stop the game of dice , to me this is another hint; nothing was done even by the king dhṛtarāṣṭra, his position was 'blind' to injustice.




    photo courtesy of http://www.dollsofindia.com/draupadi.htm

    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 September 2009 at 10:09 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12

    Cool Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Namaste all,

    Sorry I don't think Yudhishthir was that wrong

    He was truth speaking nobleman once said anything is said, he never lied.

    In gambling with Kauravs he lost everything and he got a chance to retain all that he just lost, so he used Draupadi as a chance in that stage.

  3. #13
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namast Lalkar,


    Quote Originally Posted by LALKAR View Post
    Namaste all,
    Sorry I don't think Yudhishthir was that wrong He was truth speaking nobleman once said anything is said, he never lied. In gambling with Kauravs he lost everything and he got a chance to retain all that he just lost, so he used Draupadi as a chance in that stage.
    I can see your point that Yudhiṣṭhira perhaps did what he had to do, yet neither Yudhiṣṭhira, nor bhīṣma were able to answer draupadī's question: how can someone who has lost himself (Yudhiṣṭhira) wager someone else in a game?


    Why am I making such a big deal about ' not even bhīṣma could address this question' ? The bhAghavataM says that there are only twelve men in the whole world who know the ins and outs of dharma in all its subtlety. These twelve are: BrahmA, the Creator; Narada, the roving sage; Lord Śiva; Lord SubrahmaNya; the sage Kapila; Manu the law-giver; the boy-devotee Prahlada; King Janaka; bhīṣma; King Bali; the boy-sage Suka, the reciter of the bhAgavatam; and Yama, the Lord of Death and Dispenser of Justice.

    Thus bhīṣma happens to be one of the twelve most knowledgeable people on dharma and still was confounded on this matter.


    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    If he did not own his self, then where is the authorship to own anything else? And as you mention, even if he did his reign does not include the 'ownership' of draupadī. Is the lesson 'what do we as humans really (really) own?'

    So I see a few lessons - on the material level, social level (dice playing) and spiritual level.

    On the spiritual level do you believe the lost of self was on the individual level (jiva) or the Universal level (SELF)? It is my humble belief that Vyāsa -ji has crafted this episode to offer insights into the workings of humans on many levels.

    I say this due to the outcomes that occured and also that Kṛṣṇa informed bhīṣma not to stop the game of dice , to me this is another hint; nothing was done even by the king dhṛtarāṣṭra, his position was 'blind' to injustice.
    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    In my humble opinion, this whole episode can also be understood this way :

    Yudhisthir losing himself & his brothers in the game of dice .... is like losing one's self to God's wishes including everything one should be proud of ( his brothers ). That leaves the final pride of a person (draupadi's respectful status) in the society which can be hurt by this cruel world. But God protects the pride of those who have surrendered everything to God ... i.e. saving the pride of Draupadi.

    I don't know whether I am correct but this is what I can think of.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #15
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namast devotee,
    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    In my humble opinion, this whole episode can also be understood this way :Yudhisthir losing himself & his brothers in the game of dice .... is like losing one's self to God's wishes including everything one should be proud of ( his brothers ). That leaves the final pride of a person (draupadi's respectful status) in the society which can be hurt by this cruel world. But God protects the pride of those who have surrendered everything to God ... i.e. saving the pride of Draupadi.
    OM
    I think your insights are worthy of merit. I wish I were the śāstri that could advance this idea. I continue to look for this person who can add this insight on various levels that Vyāsa-ji writes.

    Perhaps he/she will arrive on HDF or in our lives.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16

    Cool Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Namaste Yajvan G et all
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namast Lalkar,




    I can see your point that Yudhiṣṭhira perhaps did what he had to do, yet neither Yudhiṣṭhira, nor bhīṣma were able to answer draupadī's question: how can someone who has lost himself (Yudhiṣṭhira) wager someone else in a game?


    Why am I making such a big deal about ' not even bhīṣma could address this question' ? The bhAghavataM says that there are only twelve men in the whole world who know the ins and outs of dharma in all its subtlety. These twelve are: BrahmA, the Creator; Narada, the roving sage; Lord Śiva; Lord SubrahmaNya; the sage Kapila; Manu the law-giver; the boy-devotee Prahlada; King Janaka; bhīṣma; King Bali; the boy-sage Suka, the reciter of the bhAgavatam; and Yama, the Lord of Death and Dispenser of Justice.

    Thus bhīṣma happens to be one of the twelve most knowledgeable people on dharma and still was confounded on this matter.


    praṇām
    Yajvan G During his last days when bhīṣma was giving knowledge of dharm to Yudhiṣṭhira, he himself accepted that was wrong but he did nothing because he was in the service of Kauravs and Yuvraj Duryodhan was his master and not grandson at the stage.

  7. #17
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté Lalkar,

    Quote Originally Posted by LALKAR View Post
    Namaste Yajvan G et all
    Yajvan G During his last days when bhīṣma was giving knowledge of dharm to Yudhiṣṭhira, he himself accepted that was wrong but he did nothing because he was in the service of Kauravs and Yuvraj Duryodhan was his master and not grandson at the stage.
    Yes, I recall reading this... a good point, well taken; As bhīṣma informs us of whose service he was in, do you think this is a principle that should hold true for all of us?

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18

    Smile Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Thank you Yajvanji for indicating the miracle of 18 . Puranas are also 18 and the figure 108 also contains 18 .In India the maturity age is 18, probably, thus everything contains 18 .

    And good food for thought by Devoteeji.A lesson for lessons.

    Who is at fault , it is very tough to say . Drona insulted Drupad, Draupadi and Dhrashtdumna were born for the revenge. Bhishma insulted one of three sisters, Shikhandi was to take revenge .Rama killed Bali , a Birdhunter was to kill Krsn.Actually everything is related to each other. What Veda says

    Yukten mansa vayam devasya savituh save,We always be devoted towards sattwa.

    Krsn says..Buddhiyogam satatam bhav Always, 24 hrs. be sattwik.

    Chanakya has writtenPurushasya bhagyam , tirya charitram,... nobody knows..but Why ?

    Who sent Yudhishter for gambling in second time, where was his lesson from first ?

    And how anybody can expect the wisdom from blind Dhratrashtra, even after listening..tatra srirvijayo .

    I quote two lines from Ramcharitmanas.

    Shastra suchintit puni puni dekhiya, sevit bhupati bas nahi lekhiya.

    Rakhiya yuvati sada ur mahin ,yuwati shastra nrapati bas nahin.

  9. #19

    Cool Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Namaste Yajvan G et All

    I don't think this is a principle that should hold true for all of us
    but this is truth the whole world follows it

    even the Hindu officers in Nepal and India have to accept Government's anti-hindu acts
    The Upper Caste officers are also forced to provide reservation law even if they don't like it

    If it become unbearable the oppose it like the Doctors in govt. services also joined anti-reservation movement during AIIMS agitation

    Bhisam's only fault was his to his step-mother Sarsavati that he will support Kauravs
    and that was why he never revolted

  10. #20
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    Re: The 5th Veda - Mahabharata

    Yajvan: This is just a question of curiousity. I am wondering who termed the Mahabharata the fifth Veda. Perhaps this is a bit of history that is not known. Over time it just happened. Do you know?

    Aum Namasivaya

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