Do Shaivas accept this?

[Arjuna]

rudro viShNur umA lakShmIs tasmai tasyai namo namaH

[Agnideva]

Namaste Arjuna,

rudro viShNur umA lakShmIs tasmai tasyai namo namaH

Is this from the Rudra-Hrdaya Upanishad?

A.

[Eastern Mind]

As a practitioner of Saiva Siddhanta, and leaning towards a non - intellectual approach, I have not even read many scriptures on Vaishnivism. I think that that is one way to confuse the mind... (reading too many scriptures that may say different things, and then having to intellectually sort it out for yourself) so whether or not Saivas accept or don't accept is a moot point (for me) For example, I haven't studied the Gita much. I know it exists, is the Vaishnava book, but its just not my scripture. Another example is (I may be wrong) in the courts of Tamil Nadu, you can swear on the Tirukkural if you choose to. I know here in the west, when asked to swear on the Christian bible, and opting to not, here in Canada at least we have the option of the Gita, which is a good thing, IMHO. Aum Namashivaya

[Madhavan]

As a practitioner of Saiva Siddhanta, and leaning towards a non - intellectual approach, I have not even read many scriptures on Vaishnivism. I think that that is one way to confuse the mind... (reading too many scriptures that may say different things, and then having to intellectually sort it out for yourself) so whether or not Saivas accept or don't accept is a moot point (for me) For example, I haven't studied the Gita much. I know it exists, is the Vaishnava book, but its just not my scripture. Another example is (I may be wrong) in the courts of Tamil Nadu, you can swear on the Tirukkural if you choose to. I know here in the west, when asked to swear on the Christian bible, and opting to not, here in Canada at least we have the option of the Gita, which is a good thing, IMHO. Aum Namashivaya

Where is it said that Gita is a Vaishnava book?

[Eastern Mind]

Well, I assumed that the Gita is a Vaishnava book, seeing that it is about Krishna. Forgive me if I'm wrong. EM Perhaps you or others could clarify this.
Aum Namashivaya

[Agnideva]

Namaste EM,

Well, I assumed that the Gita is a Vaishnava book, seeing that it is about Krishna. Forgive me if I'm wrong. EM Perhaps you or others could clarify this. Aum Namashivaya

The BG is a very important book in all branches of Sanatana Dharma which are based and/or strongly aligned with the Vedanta philosophy. The Vedantic triad canon includes the principal Upanishads, the BG and the Brahma Sutras, the latter two attributed to Sage Vyasa. This triple canon is the basis of Advaita Vedanta, and it is of extreme importance also to Vaishnavas, whose philosophy is strongly aligned with the Vedantic triple canon, although the interpretations are different.

Now, when it comes to Shaivism and Shaktism, the philosophy and theology is not based on Vedantic triple canon, nor is it completely independent of it. Shaiva and Shakta philosophy and theology is based on the Agamas (Tantras), and this system is generally called Siddhanta. Siddhantic philosophies also accept that part of Vedanta (meaning the Upanishads) which are not contradictory to the teachings of the Agamic canon. Over the centuries, some Shaiva and Shakta masters have, however, tried to reconcile the bridge between Agamic and Vedantic philosophies by commenting on the Brahma Sutras and BG.

For the sake of completion, it must be mentioned here that Vaishnavism also has its own Agamas, but one rarely hears of Vaishnava siddhantic philosophy until one begins to delve deep into Vaishnava studies.

Aum Namah Shivaya.
A.

[Madhavan]

Well, I assumed that the Gita is a Vaishnava book, seeing that it is about Krishna. Forgive me if I'm wrong. EM Perhaps you or others could clarify this.
Aum Namashivaya

Because all this talk of Vaishnava or Shaiva texts are non vedic "nonsense". Because all names referred to in the scriptures belong to the supreme being. Only the supreme Lord is referred to by names such as Vishnu, Shiva, Krishna, Indra etc based on certain qualities. Vishnu means pervade or enter and hence directly means Atma which is the support of all existance. Shiva means goodness. Krishna means handsome etc.

There are dieties who are not the supreme Lord and get these names because they possess some of the above mentioned qualities. The diety Indra is so called because he possesses aishvarya. Brahma is so called because he is perfect.( most perfected of all jIvas)

Coming to Bhagavad Gita, the claim that it is a vaishnava text springs from certain passages where Krishna is extolled as the supreme being. This is certainly true. But who is this Krishna? Is he the same person who plays a flute or is he the Absolute being? If he is the Absolute being, then his words are to be interpreted as a spokesperson for Brahman and not for a specific God called Vishnu. Why, Krishna himself says that he is Shankara among the rudrAs, which means it is as open a text as possible!

Gita in my opinion does not favour any specific God, but rather Brahman, who is called Krishna in it. If it be argued whether it is vaishavite or a shaivite text, and I have pick one from it - then it is certainly vaishnavite. It is indeed unfortunate if Shaivaites avoid the Gita just because they think Gita is a vaishnavite text. Yes, Gita is certainly against vIra Shaivism.

[Eastern Mind]

Mahavan, and Agnidevan: Thank you for clarifying. As a Saivite, I don't dislike, or purposely avoid the BG. Its just that I have my own personally more important scriptures to study, and actually am not heavily into scritural study at all. But here's another question, especially for those who do study scripture a lot. How often do you feel.. "same idea, different words, slightly different interpretation'' when you read. I did read Vivekenanda's 4 yoga books, but that was a long time ago. I liked the principles of Vedanta, but somehow it wasn't practical enough for me. I wanted to know more about controlling anger, lifestyle, temle rituals, and the like. I guess maybe I'm biased by the Christians who can spout scripture all over the place but then don't practice what they preach. Here in the western media they are attacked, and I do read the news... Aun Namashivaya

[Agnideva]

Namaste EM,

I do agree with you. I say study the scriptures that help you in your practice, in your devotion. There is no need to study every last book and try to put everything together. In fact, too much intellectual study can also be a hindrance.

In my personal journey to Saivism, I have been through Vaishnavism and Vedanta, so I am familiar with the texts of both. Yes, the philosophy is different, the practice and emphasis is different, but the Divine we all seek is the same.

Aum Namah Shivaya,
A.

[atanu]

---- It is indeed unfortunate if Shaivaites avoid the Gita just because they think Gita is a vaishnavite text. Yes, Gita is certainly against vIra Shaivism.

Namaste,

I may be a bit biased or may be not. In my experience no scripture is untouchable for shaivas, or more particularly for Shiva devotees. Whether that is equally true of core vaishnavas, I am not sure?

Om