He is the one on whom our hope depends. For if Hanuman survives, all we though dead are yet alive. But if his precious life be lost though living still we are but dead: He is our hope and sure relief -Jambavan (Yuddha Kanda. 74). Impossibility=Hanuman
Namskar Madhavan,
You are very correct. Concepts are not the absolute truths -- they are always subject to alternate interpretations. That is what I also feel and I strongly support you in this.
But then when you go beneath. Go to the mind, go to the intellect, go to the "i" that says "i believe so", and look for the source of that "i". What happens? Involution to the deepest being, increases the commonalities. And when the substratum of silence is seen -- there remains ----?
I will put it in another way, which has been oft repeated (and you might have encountered it already). Mandukya Upanishad says the Self is advaitaatama and it must be known. I see a very tricky beauty in it. How will one know both advaita and atma together? Can one ever know IT as another?
And this brings me to what an advaitin like Ramana Maharshi says: The boundaries are true since the consciousness is true. The differences are true since the consciousness is true. The Self Realized sees all differences and all spendours within ONE consciousness as ONE consciousness.
All this is not for you or Yajvan Ji, since you are already beyond this. I just record these, since I have some time and may be VC may find something of interest?
Does the Bible contain some passage that requires/directs a seeker to know advaitaatma?
Om
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
Thank you, people. As I understand as human beings including Ramana Maharishi or some dualistic religious person there is no end in finding Truth. Best thing we can do is to build a religion or an idea or a concept. As you can see in these discussions each one has his own idea which can be very contradictory to other's idea. I do not think there is any thing wrong with that. Once human beings come to know the so called Absolute truth then there is no Growth? There is no movement and without movement what is life then?
Question is does it matter whether we need to have dualistic or non dualistic thinking?
Namaste vcindiana.
At the level of the Absolute Truth, it is said, that there is pure movement of the Consciousness itself. This is not the outward movement in space and time that we see in manifest reality, but the kind of movement we experience in deep sleep, which brings peace and the knowledge 'I slept well.' The Absolute Truth is pure Existence (sat), Consciousness (chit), Bliss (Ananda), the gurus tells us. How can there be Ananda without inner movement?
I would say that we need to have dualistic thinking with an idea of non-dualistism ever behind it. You have a personal notion of yourself which is always true and real for you, whatever external forms you take and roles you play. Ultimately, only you know who you really are.
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namste Saidevo,
this is a very good point. We have no other choice while grounded in avidya... that is of duality. We can have the notion of non-dual and study it as this evolves our appreciation of Being and assists in our progress.
IMHO and observations we as humans tend to look for the answer in one package. Yet the answer comes in different approaches and visions of the truth (satyam). This I believe is why the rishis and munis and sages gave us the 6 systems of Indian philosophy. So we can look at Reality from 6 different perspectives. They [ the principles ]work with each other vs. challange each other. Nothing beats comparing and contrasting when learning.
And like good humans we tend to say or pick one philosophy over the other and suggest its superiority. Yet , in essence, they have been designed to move ones thinking and experience closer to the truth (satyam) the right (ritam) and the vast (brhat). This unfolds our full potential as humans and brings alignment with the Universal Self.
So this duality , over time , erodes its hold on us, with the infusion of knowledge. Pure knowledge = pure consciousness and hence duality is gone in an instant in this state; as knowledge wins over avidya each time.
just a thought...
pranams
Last edited by yajvan; 28 August 2007 at 08:38 PM.
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
Namaste VC
The question is not whether we need to have dualistic or non dualistic thinking. The question you must ask yourself is what motivates you one way or another?
I find your ideas fantastic. Ramana Maharshi indeed stopped so-called growing when He was 17-18. After that He neither grew nor diminished. He was full; radiating peace. There are records to show that some people who approached Him with sarcasm (a few missionaries), did not benefit from the peace. But all others did benefit and are still benefitting.
There is an end in finding the truth when inwards search is made. There is no end of delusion when one goes after objects or concepts (which I think you are equating with growth). Regarding growth being stalled on finding the truth, whose growth you are talking about? If it is yours then what is your objective of growth?
Why do you think that the growth would have to stop? If that was true then how all this growth came about from the absolute God? There should have been no growth since I suppose God must be absolute?
Om
Last edited by atanu; 29 August 2007 at 04:15 AM.
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
Namaste VC,
I support the comments of Yajvan and Atanu.
In Dvaita there is no end in seeking the ultimate Truth, but in Advaita the Truth is already found!
Dvaitins are always on the move, progressing towards an unattainable goal (ultimate satisfaction and final rest in perfect Unity of Self ~ i.e. Advaita). And so, societies with a generally dualistic understanding have always been striving for perceived progress, development, and expansion.
On the other hand, a society or culture that is governed by an essentially monistic view will generally have a much more relaxed attitude progress and growth, which are subtle interior matters requiring no particular effort or action.
Indeed, Advaita and Dvaita are quite divergent paths, with the latter leading to endless conflict and suffering and environmental destruction, and the former leading only to eternal blissful existence and peace, in complete harmony with nature and ultimate reality.
The perfection of Advaita is unborn and immortal, whereas Dvaita is born of division and fatally flawed!
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
I am sorry u feel that way.
Previous post by SG said "Dvaitins are always on the move, progressing .........have always been striving for perceived progress, development, and expansion.
Indeed, Advaita and Dvaita are quite divergent paths, with the latter leading to endless conflict and suffering and environmental destruction, and the former leading only to eternal blissful existence and peace, in complete harmony with nature and ultimate reality."
I am just trying to understand , I am not judging any of you, I do not have any fixed idea or concept.
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