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Thread: Superiority Complex?

  1. #1
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    Superiority Complex?

    If you don't know already, I am born in a Vaishnava family...that doesn't say much but take it for what it is worth.

    The purpose of my post on this thread is a behaviour of "Vaishnavas" that I have encountered on different forums. As a hindu, I am concerned about this behaviour.

    Most of the vaishnavas that I have come across on the internet are very sectarian in nature and generally sarcastic or down right angry at other hindu sects. One does not have to go out of this forum even to see this behaviour.

    Have we forgotten that we are "hindus" and as such should have and should show respect to "all" sects even if we do not agree with their teachings?

    If all vaishnavas are taught to belittle other hindu sects these days then believe me it leaves a bitter taste in other people's mouth. And if any vaishnava thinks that Bhagwan has instructed us to belittle others then they are just plain wrong!

    While people like me shun the missionary 'shove it down your throat' mentality of other religions, it is sad to see that this mentality exists in our own house too!!

    pretty sad to see this...
    Last edited by satay; 25 April 2006 at 03:35 PM.
    satay

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    Dear Moderator

    You had verily found only one guy of that sort and that guy has promised you not to come back, and that guy was an exception, I can see he was young, enthusiastic and sees internet as a great tool.

    To make him understand, what is required is time and patience

    What has to be done by simple guidance cannot be done by instrcuting with tone nor by punishment

    Jai shree krishna

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    Dear Moderator

    You had verily found only one guy of that sort and that guy has promised you not to come back, and that guy was an exception, I can see he was young, enthusiastic and sees internet as a great tool.

    To make him understand, what is required is time and patience

    What has to be done by simple guidance cannot be done by instrcuting with tone nor by punishment

    Jai shree krishna
    Dear member,
    My post does not talk about one particular member of this forum. My post represent a number of 'alike' personalities I have met on the net on different hindu forums.

    This forum is not a vaishnava forum or any sectarian forum and as such one is not allowed to 'shove something down' other people's throats. Frankly, it is annoying and turns people off.

    My observation is not based on one person...

    The rules of the site are clear. There will be 'punishment' (if you prefer to call it that) if any member breaks the rule.

    If one does not like the rules they can happily go to other forums where insulting other sampadrayas are allowed or one can easily setup one such forum. It doesn't take much to setup a personal site, blog or even a forum like this...

    This forum is created for 'positive' hindu presentation. I will not hesitate a bit to close it if all we get here is sectarian nonsense and breaking of the rules or 'my father can beat up your father' attitudes.

    Now, back to the original post...do you have anything to say about the behaviour I have observed among vaishnavas or is that just some little kids behaving like this and giving a bad impressions of vaishnavas in general?

    what's your opinion?

    satay
    satay

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    As I found this post immediately as such instances, I was referring to the individual member

    Being a Moderator action, I trust, the said action will not be based on individual's action.

    During my comparitive study analysis in my private discussion group, which drew many references from Yahoo group observants (We do not actively participate in Yahoo groups, but just keep observing the nature of people in such group chats) we found a surprising information.

    Many Muslims get provoked easily with statements against their prophet and citations to unislamic activity. This provocation is shared by Vaishnavites (and many Dvaitins too), where a negative reference to their revered perceptors and non vedic practices

    Advaitins and Gaudia Vaishnavs are seen to be very patient inspite of such provocations.

    Working offline, we found few similarities between people who got provoked and people who are very patient. This goes with attachment to perceptor and perpetual discussions on bio-graphies of the perceptors. With this, we were able to conclude, point of provocation to One group is different from another group, though we found more similar things, those are irrelevant at this point.

    I am easily provoked when some says a negative point on any of my perceptor, on the contrary, others do not get provoked with such similar statement, but only with statement contrary to their belief

    Such provocation results in negative statements made on forums of this kind, in different levels like some one responds subtly "You do not know", referring to ignorance of the other pointing out that the other person has not read his own scriptures and this also goes to extent of name calling

    The point which I want to make clear is - one feel offended at different levels which we like to measure with standard formats

    To put it precisely, Group one is provoked against any statement where intentions are negative and group two is provoked against statement which are not politically correct

    One condemns the intentions irrespective of words and other condemns the very words used

    Meeting point for this difference is much varied, what I suggest here is first two Moderator actions and messages related to that could be made via Private Message

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    As I found this post immediately as such instances, I was referring to the individual member
    yes, it was clear to me that you were referring to the individual member though my post does not talk about any individual whatsoever and is based on observation of many individuals of the same sect.

    Being a Moderator action, I trust, the said action will not be based on individual's action.
    Not sure what you are trying to say here could be because english is not my first language. In any case, you can have full confidence in the abilities of the moderators here...some have been doing this for years especially BYS.
    We are good at reading between the lines and at identifying who is trying to just push the limits of the rules and who is actually following the rules nicely in a mature manner.

    Actions will be taken based on individual's action. Final judgement rests with the mod or admin and there is no if, buts or questions about that. We have to do this to keep the site clean of all childish behaviour.

    I trust that you understand what I am saying.

    During my comparitive study analysis in my private discussion group, which drew many references from Yahoo group observants (We do not actively participate in Yahoo groups, but just keep observing the nature of people in such group chats) we found a surprising information.
    Who is "we"? Are there many of you?

    Many Muslims get provoked easily with statements against their prophet and citations to unislamic activity.
    Naturally, since they regard their prophet as the only prophet sent by god.

    This provocation is shared by Vaishnavites (and many Dvaitins too), where a negative reference to their revered perceptors and non vedic practices
    Any idea why this is?

    Working offline, we found few similarities between people who got provoked and people who are very patient. This goes with attachment to perceptor and perpetual discussions on bio-graphies of the perceptors. With this, we were able to conclude, point of provocation to One group is different from another group, though we found more similar things, those are irrelevant at this point.
    It is a natural for humans to have emotions and get angry when provoked but we are talking about dharma adherents that are supposed to be setting an example and not get angry and not behave like children if provoked.


    I am easily provoked when some says a negative point on any of my perceptor, on the contrary, others do not get provoked with such similar statement, but only with statement contrary to their belief
    This is all natural nothing new about this in your research. People get provoked and angry for different reasons but the point I am trying to make is that as dharma adherents Vaishnavas should show more constraint on their senses. Is sense control not taught in Vaishnava sects these days?

    Such provocation results in negative statements made on forums of this kind, in different levels like some one responds subtly "You do not know", referring to ignorance of the other pointing out that the other person has not read his own scriptures and this also goes to extent of name calling
    Naturally, this why mods are needed.

    The point which I want to make clear is - one feel offended at different levels which we like to measure with standard formats
    As a hindu do we have a standard format or not is my question?

    Meeting point for this difference is much varied, what I suggest here is first two Moderator actions and messages related to that could be made via Private Message
    Thanks for the suggestion. The site rules are clear and in fact common sense. It is assumed that we are all adults here but I keep repeating myself on this and childish behaviour creeps up in most threads.

    The action is taken in public and not through private messages since the offending action was taken in public. It also serves as a reminder to other members of the board to follow the rules.

    If one breaks the rules openly and behaves like a child openly action will be taken in open.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by satay; 26 April 2006 at 09:28 AM.
    satay

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    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    you can have full confidence in the abilities of the moderators here...some have been doing this for years especially BYS.
    We are good at reading between the lines and at identifying who is trying to just push the limits of the rules and who is actually following the rules nicely in a mature manner.
    OK.

    However, like to point out differences, You had asked members to proceed to debate in nice manners, where in other Mod indicating their views of feeling irritated with Right Vs. Wrong discussions

    Certain religious leaders are accuesd for being money minded which comment was irrelevant to this forum and respective thread, and Shri Prabhupada directly accused for inserting new things in texts, not being dependable at all - all done to upheld a sectarian view went without any notice

    Inspite of my objection in making threads with sectarian thoughts, for the intentions of someone, Mods break down on me for being sectarian thought.

    Actions will be taken based on individual's action. Final judgement rests with the mod or admin and there is no if, buts or questions about that. We have to do this to keep the site clean of all childish behaviour.

    I trust that you understand what I am saying.
    I welcome it

    Who is "we"? Are there many of you?
    I am part of few offline local private discussion groups where we try to discuss & understand hindu scriptures. The very idea is to understand different philosophies. I referred myself and members of the private offline group with the word "We".

    Ramkish42 is only one person


    Naturally, since they regard their prophet as the only prophet sent by god.

    Any idea why this is?
    The idea of eternity and blessings of Lord is purely dependant of Guru for Vaishnavs. We point out various examples, the base of all such examples are one - if a vaishanva does not have satisfaction of his Guru and bhaagavatha Sampatha, even is Lord has bestowed his krupa, cannot obtain eternity, but has to be satisfied only with Jnana.

    Verily, for a Vaishnav Eternity is dependant of eternity of his guru

    This is all natural nothing new about this in your research. People get provoked and angry for different reasons but the point I am trying to make is that as dharma adherents Vaishnavas should show more constraint on their senses. Is sense control not taught in Vaishnava sects these days?
    Let me corroborate with some events on this forum.

    When some members pointed out I DO NOT KNOW CERTAIN SCRIPTURE, I HAVE NOT READ CERTAIN TEXTS, indicating my ignorancy, I responded with my knowledge of the very texts

    When some one points out Ramanuja has hidden a fact from his disciples, I objected. When insults against Prabhupada is made I recorded my objections

    Were do you see the sense control is missing. The particular event which I pointed out earlier was misery, no doubt. I had recorded my objection to him through email too, but statements made against great perceptors is really a matter where one should not be in control of senses. I am not saying the person who has insulted should be punished, that is the prerogative of the mods, but the person who marks his objection should not be punished

    Thanks for the suggestion. The site rules are clear and in fact common sense. It is assumed that we are all adults here but I keep repeating myself on this and childish behaviour creeps up in most threads.

    The action is taken in public and not through private messages since the offending action was taken in public. It also serves as a reminder to other members of the board to follow the rules.
    Action in public is well appreciated, but the point I am trying to make is a call for explanation before proceeding. PM's could serve that purpose verily

    Thanks Satay

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    As I have said repeatedly here on different threads...if you come across a post that you feel is breaking the rules of the site by all means please report it. The report goes to all mods and the post is reviewed and actions taken. Most of the times, the offending member is sent a pm. I know most of the members from other forums as I invited them here.

    Let's not turn this into a 'mod' vs members thread and let's focus on the behaviour of vaishnava in general on the net.

    I have found the behaviour to be childish, it turns people off. Do you not agree with my observation?

    We want to talk about Bhagwan but end up looking like a missionary from another religions that are ready to shove something down other peoples throats.

    You know well, what happens if someone shoves somethings down other peoples throats right? The person often vomits it all out and that doesn't leave a good taste in the mouth now does it?
    satay

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    If you don't know already, I am born in a Vaishnava family...that doesn't say much but take it for what it is worth.

    The purpose of my post on this thread is a behaviour of "Vaishnavas" that I have encountered on different forums. As a hindu, I am concerned about this behaviour.

    Most of the vaishnavas that I have come across on the internet are very sectarian in nature and generally sarcastic or down right angry at other hindu sects. One does not have to go out of this forum even to see this behaviour.

    Have we forgotten that we are "hindus" and as such should have and should show respect to "all" sects even if we do not agree with their teachings?

    If all vaishnavas are taught to belittle other hindu sects these days then believe me it leaves a bitter taste in other people's mouth. And if any vaishnava thinks that Bhagwan has instructed us to belittle others then they are just plain wrong!

    While people like me shun the missionary 'shove it down your throat' mentality of other religions, it is sad to see that this mentality exists in our own house too!!

    pretty sad to see this...
    Namaskaar. I share the same feelings. While this isn't the case with all members of the Vaishnava sects, it is a noticable trend. A trend I notice with Shaivites, Shaktas, Smartas, and others is a more non-judgmental approach to other sects and without preaching or converting. In fact, I cannot ever recall a Shaivite or other type of non-Vaishnava Hindu trying to preach or convert others to his or her school. As to the non-judgmental trend, they will tend to be less sectarian in the sense that they do not regularly assert to all other Hindus that they are a member of such and such school and consider themselves to be Hindus while acknowledging that there are many different sects.

    On the other hand, a Vaishnava trend I have seen on every forum including this one as well as out in society includes the following:

    1. Preaching and converting
    2. Criticizing, ridiculing, and excessively debating against other schools
    3. Re-defining their sect as Hinduism instead of defining their sect as one out of many sects of Hinduism
    4. Failing to acknowledge that there are other valid sects of Hindu philosophy

    This can also be witnessed here on this forum where certain Vaishnavas excessively debate against all other users while constantly bringing up their school. These people seem to have an inferiority complex. Even when other members would rather have a discussion than a debate and discuss the topics in as non-sectarian a way as possible, certain Vaishnavas go to extreme lengths to argue that their view in their school is the right one. It is this constant attempt to prove that they are right and everyone else is wrong often when their debates are not in context and irrelevant and even inappropriate to the type of dialogue that is being engaged in that it becomes quite annoying and unfortunately gives Vaishnavas a very bad name. Similar to misbehaved kids, they cannot focus on their own problems and instead try to correct everyone else instead of simply minding their own business.

    Namaskaar. ~BYS~

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    Dear Moderator
    It is not necessary to assume that any post made by a moderator is made for moderation purposes. We will post normally as users and if a complaint, request, or announcement is made, we will note the post as a "Moderator Note" or an "Admin Note." Otherwise, our comments should be treated just as you would treat them as if they were to come from any other user.

    I am not surprised you were the first one to reply since you have been trying to debate against all other schools since you first arrived here. I don't believe Satay's comments were directed toward you in particular but it is noticable that you do fit the category we are referring to: preaching and converting, criticizing other schools than your own, acting as if your own schools is the only true Hinduism, and an addiction to trying to prove that you are right and everyone else is wrong when such attitude is not necessary.

    Namaste. ~BYS~

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    Many Muslims get provoked easily with statements against their prophet and citations to unislamic activity. This provocation is shared by Vaishnavites (and many Dvaitins too), where a negative reference to their revered perceptors and non vedic practices
    Perhaps clarity is needed here. I worked and studied with a sizable number of Muslims not too long back where I used to live. They knew that I'm not Muslim and never tried to convert me. On the other hand, sometimes we had some interesting discussions. When I stated what my disagreements were with Islam and Muhammad, they were not offended but simply understood that I follow a different religion and had different beliefs. They were aware I wasn't hostile toward their religion. On the other hand, I have been confronted by a rather sizable number of Gaudiya Vaishnavas particularly those who are associating with ISKCON and in almost every case, it was a one-way judgmental discussion similar to a preacher going door to door.

    When you state that you have your own views, they don't go away but continue to tell you why their school is the right school and why you should follow them. Additionally, if you state your disagreements with Prabhupada in most cases they become angry. Note that just like with the Muslims, this has been done in a non-hostile and respectful manner. The difference is that the Muslims weren't trying to preach to me in the first place and really didn't care what I believed in but actually appreciated the fact that I showed some understanding and respect for their right to follow a different path. This is also considering the fact that both of us (Hindus and Muslims) are a minority in this country. It is the Gaudiya Vaishnavas that consistently act as if my number has been called and it is time to have my soul saved and surrender to Krishna under their understanding of him. This is combined with a holier-than-thou attitude and superiority complex that they "own" Hinduism and some total stranger suddenly is now my guru whom I should listen to. Please note that this is not the case with all members of any particular group but these are the experiences that I have had in my day to day life. Namaste. ~BYS~

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