In Defense Of Hatha Yoga

[Arjuna]

I personally do not think grace is an essential part of mukti. Who are we after all, according to advaita? We are non different from God, and why do we need any special grace? The grace is ever present. It is a useful concept in the path of Bhakti Yoga, which should incidentally be only one of the ways to God. Jnana Yoga does not entail such concepts at all.

This problem is mostly linguistic

Shaktinipata (descent of Divine Grace) is not separate from one's own Consciousness or Self. Shaiva Jnana-yoga is entirely based on Shaktinipata doctrine, and yet it is purely monistic.

As Abhinavagupta puts it, a true Guru is initiated by "goddesses of his own Consciousness." The whole doctrine of Shakti-tattva has to be understood in a context of Paradvaita.

[TruthSeeker]

This problem is mostly linguistic

Shaktinipata (descent of Divine Grace) is not separate from one's own Consciousness or Self. Shaiva Jnana-yoga is entirely based on Shaktinipata doctrine, and yet it is purely monistic.

As Abhinavagupta puts it, a true Guru is initiated by "goddesses of his own Consciousness." The whole doctrine of Shakti-tattva has to be understood in a context of Paradvaita.

Do you hold jagat to be absolutely real? If so, how do you account for multiplicity seen with the senses? Is ignorance and evil also Shiva?

Also, do you accept that Brahman is changeless and perfectly homogeneous? If yes, how are you reconciling the changing nature of the world as percieved through the senses.

I am not finding realism as wrong, but that position would not be compatible with vedantic ideal of changeless and ekapada Brahman. My only doubt in this regard is, what should be considered a change in the Brahman. Is Brahman subject to change, due to the apprent changes we percieve. By Human logic, if something changes and it is Brahman, Brahman also changes.

Classical advaita tries to prove that Brahman does not change, since the changes are not real. Advaita based on realism try to prove that Brahman is not changed even if we consider the jagat as real. This is a hard nut to crack, and human logic may not be applicable to Brahman at all. So both positions maybe correct.

Jativada and advaita simultaneously is a hard position to defend, from the vedantic perspective.

[Arjuna]

Do you hold jagat to be absolutely real? If so, how do you account for multiplicity seen with the senses? Is ignorance and evil also Shiva?

Also, do you accept that Brahman is changeless and perfectly homogeneous? If yes, how are you reconciling the changing nature of the world as percieved through the senses.

I am not finding realism as wrong, but that position would not be compatible with vedantic ideal of changeless and ekapada Brahman. My only doubt in this regard is, what should be considered a change in the Brahman. Is Brahman subject to change, due to the apprent changes we percieve. By Human logic, if something changes and it is Brahman, Brahman also changes.

Classical advaita tries to prove that Brahman does not change, since the changes are not real. Advaita based on realism try to prove that Brahman is not changed even if we consider the jagat as real. This is a hard nut to crack, and human logic may not be applicable to Brahman at all. So both positions maybe correct.

Jativada and advaita simultaneously is a hard position to defend, from the vedantic perspective.

Namaste,

Please see my reply here in a separate thread: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...=4209#post4209

[dubnath]

arey baba sai bad but anyway one aspect is everybody seems like getting on
happily with whatever form they choose,the really full and complete practice
from matsyendra and gorakh is way beyond reach for many of us,so as today forms are concerned the whole affair is far better than any drinking dancing
and other useless activities whose list makes sorry reading,yoga all the way
and good luck for everyone, lucky for us we live under the umbrella of sri aurobindo,good shelter

[dubnath]

do you do any practice you have a pretty obvious knwoledge of the texts
pertaining to this great science of yoga and I would very much like if you
could tell me how to obtain the gerhanda-samhita,goraksa paddhati,goraksa
sataka and other books on this line
I have been pleasantly surprise,while doing ashtanga (moderate first serie)
to see that a great number of people practice with an authentic aspiration
towards the true goal of yoga,no pride even though some achievers reach
high levels,I think mostly sincerity guides people in this direction and love
affection bind all true seekers a million praises and thanks for INDIA
incredible heritage
dubnath ex dubos ex frenchman in and around INDIA since 1967

[SuryaVedanta754]

people, by nature, want to be independent. That tends to make them reject traditional things, even if traditional things are very good for them. Maybe it is not "cool" to practice traditional Hindu religious activities. But if folks think that rock 'n roll, McDonalds and smoking pot is some secret path to happiness, they are not going to find any answers there...that is for sure.

I am an American. Americans are idiots. Stick with Gandhi, Tagore, Swami Vivekananda....they actually knew things.