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Thread: The Summary of Import of Turya

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    The Summary of Import of Turya

    Namaste to All,

    I felt that the post 'Import of Turya' is a storm developing and developing, wherefrom extracting the essence might be difficult. So, I have summarised my understanding as below.

    (There may be some wrong parsing in the sanskrit verses used).

    Mandukya Upanishad revisited

    s:v:üøÊðt:dÏb:ÒÉAy:m:atm:ab:ÒÉs:að|y:m:atm:ac:t:Ø\p:at:Î / 2 /
    All this is, indeed, Brahman. This Atman is Brahman. This same Atman has four quarters.


    j:ag:ert:sT:an:ab:ehH)jW:Hst:a¤Okan:ev:S:et:m:ØK:HsT:l:B:g:Îv:Ã:an:rH)T:m:Hp:adH / 3 /
    In first station, Vaisvanara, of externalised consciousness, it experiences gross objects with the aid of seven limbs and nineteen mouths (faculties).


    svn:HsT:an:að|nt:H)jW:Hst:a¤Okan:ev:S:et:m:K:H
    e)ev:ev:Vt:B:ØkÏt:òj:s:aðe¾et:y:Hp:adH / 4 /
    In second station, Taijasa, with internal cognition it experiences subtle objects through the seven limbs and nineteen mouths.


    y:*:s:Øpt:aðn:k÷c:n:kam:ökam:y:t:ð, n:k÷c:n:svn:öp:Sy:et:,
    t:t:Îs:Ø\:Øpt:m:Î .s:Ø\:Øpt:sT:an:OkiB:Üt:H)jW:an:G:n:v:an:ndm:y:aðÊan:ndB:ØkÏc:ðt:aðm:ØK:H)ajW:st:àt:iy:Hp:adH / 5 /
    In third station of Shushupti, deep sleep -- where dream and desires are absent -- it experiences, with dense cognition, oneness and bliss. This forms the door to the differentiated and defined cognitions of the other states.

    O\:s:v:ðüÃ:rO\:s:v:üjW:O\:að|nt:y:aümy:ð\:y:aðen:Hs:v:üsy:)B:v:apy:y:aòehB:Üt:an:am:Î / 6 /
    This is the lord of all - the Omniscient and Inner master, source of all and their dissolution.


    n:ant:H)jW:ön:b:ehH)jW:ön:aðB:y:t:H)jW:ön:)jW:an:G:n:ön:)jW:ön:a)jW:m:Î .
    AdáÄm:vy:v:hay:üm:g:ÒaÊm:l:x:N:m:ec:nty:m:vy:dðSy:m:ðkatmty:y:s:a rö)p:Wc:aðp:S:m:öS:ant:öeS:v:m:¾òt:öc:t:ØT:üøm:ny:nt:ðs:Aatm:as:ev:jW:ðy:H / 7 /
    n: - not
    Ant:H)jW:m:Î - inwardly graspable
    n: - nor
    b:ehH)jW:m:Î - outwardly capturable
    n:uB:y:t:H)jW:m:Î - nor intelligible by both means
    n:)jW:an:G:n:m:Î - not vague, dense knowledge
    n:)jW:m:Î - not knowable in group
    n:A)jW:m:Î - not absence of knowledge
    AdÄm:Î - unseen
    Avy:v:hay:m:Î - having no relation
    Ag:aÊm:Î - uncapturable
    Al:x:N:m:Î - non-deducible
    Aec:nty:m:Î - beyond comprehension
    Aby:dSy:m:Î - beyond explanation
    Okatmty:y:s:arm:Î - the essence cognizing all states
    )p:Wc:ap:S:m:m:Î - lapsing of everything into nought
    S:ant:m:Î peaceful
    eS:v:m:Î - auspicious
    A¾t:m:Î - non-dual
    c:t:T:m:Î - the fourth state
    m:ny:nt:ð - deem
    s:H - he ( Brahman )
    Aatm:a - the self
    s:H - he
    ev:jW:y:H - to be known

    The Fourth is thought of as that which is not internal consciousness, nor externalized consciousness, nor both, nor dense with consciousness, nor simple consciousness, nor unconsciousness, unseen, action less, incomprehensible, un-inferable, unthinkable, indescribable, one self, which is the essence that cognizes all states, wherein all phenomenon come to cease, and which is unchanging, auspicious, and non-dual. That is the Self; that is to be known.


    s:að|y:m:atm:aDy:x:rm:að¢arað|eD:m:a*:öp:adam:a*:am:a*:aÁ:p:adaAkarukaraðm:karEet: / 8 /
    This Atman (the Self) is OM, the single syllable. When composed of parts, the quarters are the letters, and the letters are the quarters. The letters are a, u and m.

    ------------------------------------

    The Summary of "Import of Turya"

    The fourth, the Self is Brahman. Brahman is this self, which is the being cognizing and enjoying three states of existence. Since the Self alone IS and it is Brahman, the Self is also called Brahmayoni (of Mahad Brahma as per Gita) and Shushupti is sarvasya yoni, including of the world soul -- Hiraynagarbha.


    The knowledge is that the fourth, the self is not only eS:v:m:¾òt:ö but it has to be known as eS:v:m:¾òt: -- indivisible and good.
    -----------

    Turya Atman is Brahman and Brahman is Atman. It is Shivam Advaitam. Indescribable but the objective of knowledge.


    Maha Narayana Upanishad
    XIII-4: Narayana is the Supreme Reality designated as Brahman. Narayana is the highest (Self). Narayana is the supreme Light (described in the Upanishads). Narayana is the infinite Self. [Narayana is the most excellent meditator and meditation.]

    Lord of Shushupti is Vena, the Saguna Lord, Sarvesvara who is )jW:an:G:n:.(pure dense consciousness). He is the origin and dissolution of all beings. He is bliss. Saguna Lord is considered to have FIVE ASPECTS of Creation, Sustenance, Dissolution, Veiling and Grace. These five aspects or faces should not be confused with the three stations of Turya Shivam Advaitam Atma – which has no second.

    Lord of Taijjassa is Surya/Hiranayagarbha, which is the subtle beginning of gross manifestations.

    Lord of Vaisvanaro is Indra.
    -----------
    Shivam Advaitam is Vishnu (who is said to originate from Soma), traversing the three stations.

    -----------
    From the perspective of Jivas (who are the faces of thoughts arising in )jW:an:G:n:.the experience of Turya Brahman, is traditionally said to occur through seven states. These are called the seven states of experience as below.

    Originally Posted by Madhavan and Atanu

    Subeccha - desire for liberation, giving up all worldly pursuits and follow the path of the Self single mindedly. Includes many years of practising the disciplines of yama and niyama.

    Vicharana - reflections from study of scriptures and understanding the truth and the way to obtain release from avidya.( paroxa jnana)

    Tanumanasi - Highly purifed mind obtained by the practice of dhyana and nishkAma karma. In Tanumanasi, the yogi is able to see even an atom( and even subtler things), and even percieve divine beings(devatas) and communicate with them.

    Satwapatti - The knowledge that the world we see is not a reality but only a mental modification, and a consequent realization that the world is only a form of Brahman. The individuality is still retained and realized as a part of the cosmic whole.

    Asamsakti - This is the individuality that knows "I am Brahma" which destroys all sanchita karma. The Jnani is still under the influence of the prArabdha karma, and occasionally experiences jnAna tirodAna or loss of samAdhi. His existence is like a 'wise' wave on the water.

    Padarthabhavana - Individuality is permanently destroyed and no more lapses from samAdhi are caused. He does not see anything superior to himself and crowns himself the 'king of the universe'. His existence is like a line drawn on the surface of water, just for the sake of instructing others.

    Turyaga or Brahmvidvarishta - When all prArabdha karma has ceased, the jnAni goes completely beyond the pale of guNas and mAyA. His existence is water.

    Those who have attained the last four stages are called:

    Brahmavid
    Brahmavidvara
    Brahmvidvarya
    Brahmvidvarishta

    Jnana is said to begin from the stage 4.
    -----------
    Turya is neither being nor non being -- Eko without "I AM". It is the seed of "I". Or it is the pure "I", the Self. It never slumbers.

    Shushupti is "I AM" -- associated with Shakti. Jalasayana. Lord sporting with Jaganmaya.
    -----------

    The Self that is to be known is Advaita Atma. One and Atma -- the Self (not another). By the definition itself, the Self -- the Paramparastad, cannot be known by remaining a second to it.

    Om Shanti Om Shanti Om Shanti
    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 24 September 2007 at 11:02 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #2
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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste to All,

    I felt that the post 'Import of Turya' is a storm developing and developing, wherefrom extracting the essence might be difficult. So, I have summarised my understanding as below.

    (There may be some wrong parsing in the sanskrit verses used).

    Mandukya Upanishad revisited

    s:v:üøÊðt:dÏb:ÒÉAy:m:atm:ab:ÒÉs:að|y:m:atm:ac:t:Ø\p:at:Î / 2 /
    All this is, indeed, Brahman. This Atman is Brahman. This same Atman has four quarters.


    j:ag:ert:sT:an:ab:ehH)jW:Hst:a¤Okan:ev:S:et:m:ØK:HsT:l:B:g:Îv:Ã:an:rH)T:m:Hp:adH / 3 /
    In first station, Vaisvanara, of externalised consciousness, it experiences gross objects with the aid of seven limbs and nineteen mouths (faculties).


    svn:HsT:an:að|nt:H)jW:Hst:a¤Okan:ev:S:et:m:K:H
    e)ev:ev:Vt:B:ØkÏt:òj:s:aðe¾et:y:Hp:adH / 4 /
    In second station, Taijasa, with internal cognition it experiences subtle objects through the seven limbs and nineteen mouths.


    y:*:s:Øpt:aðn:k÷c:n:kam:ökam:y:t:ð, n:k÷c:n:svn:öp:Sy:et:,
    t:t:Îs:Ø\:Øpt:m:Î .s:Ø\:Øpt:sT:an:OkiB:Üt:H)jW:an:G:n:v:an:ndm:y:aðÊan:ndB:ØkÏc:ðt:aðm:ØK:H)ajW:st:àt:iy:Hp:adH / 5 /
    In third station of Shushupti, deep sleep -- where dream and desires are absent -- it experiences, with dense cognition, oneness and bliss. This forms the door to the differentiated and defined cognitions of the other states.

    O\:s:v:ðüÃ:rO\:s:v:üjW:O\:að|nt:y:aümy:ð\:y:aðen:Hs:v:üsy:)B:v:apy:y:aòehB:Üt:an:am:Î / 6 /
    This is the lord of all - the Omniscient and Inner master, source of all and their dissolution.


    n:ant:H)jW:ön:b:ehH)jW:ön:aðB:y:t:H)jW:ön:)jW:an:G:n:ön:)jW:ön:a)jW:m:Î .
    AdáÄm:vy:v:hay:üm:g:ÒaÊm:l:x:N:m:ec:nty:m:vy:dðSy:m:ðkatmty:y:s:a rö)p:Wc:aðp:S:m:öS:ant:öeS:v:m:¾òt:öc:t:ØT:üøm:ny:nt:ðs:Aatm:as:ev:jW:ðy:H / 7 /
    n: - not
    Ant:H)jW:m:Î - inwardly graspable
    n: - nor
    b:ehH)jW:m:Î - outwardly capturable
    n:uB:y:t:H)jW:m:Î - nor intelligible by both means
    n:)jW:an:G:n:m:Î - not vague, dense knowledge
    n:)jW:m:Î - not knowable in group
    n:A)jW:m:Î - not absence of knowledge
    AdÄm:Î - unseen
    Avy:v:hay:m:Î - having no relation
    Ag:aÊm:Î - uncapturable
    Al:x:N:m:Î - non-deducible
    Aec:nty:m:Î - beyond comprehension
    Aby:dSy:m:Î - beyond explanation
    Okatmty:y:s:arm:Î - the essence cognizing all states
    )p:Wc:ap:S:m:m:Î - lapsing of everything into nought
    S:ant:m:Î peaceful
    eS:v:m:Î - auspicious
    A¾t:m:Î - non-dual
    c:t:T:m:Î - the fourth state
    m:ny:nt:ð - deem
    s:H - he ( Brahman )
    Aatm:a - the self
    s:H - he
    ev:jW:y:H - to be known

    The Fourth is thought of as that which is not internal consciousness, nor externalized consciousness, nor both, nor dense with consciousness, nor simple consciousness, nor unconsciousness, unseen, action less, incomprehensible, un-inferable, unthinkable, indescribable, one self, which is the essence that cognizes all states, wherein all phenomenon come to cease, and which is unchanging, auspicious, and non-dual. That is the Self; that is to be known.


    s:að|y:m:atm:aDy:x:rm:að¢arað|eD:m:a*:öp:adam:a*:am:a*:aÁ:p:adaAkarukaraðm:karEet: / 8 /
    This Atman (the Self) is OM, the single syllable. When composed of parts, the quarters are the letters, and the letters are the quarters. The letters are a, u and m.

    ------------------------------------

    The Summary of "Import of Turya"

    The fourth, the Self is Brahman. Brahman is this self, which is the being cognizing and enjoying three states of existence. Since the Self alone IS and it is Brahman, the Self is also called Brahmayoni (of Mahad Brahma as per Gita) and Shushupti is sarvasya yoni, including of the world soul -- Hiraynagarbha.


    The knowledge is that the fourth -- this self is not only eS:v:m:¾òt:ö but it has to be known as eS:v:m:¾òt: -- indivisible and good.
    -----------

    Turya Atman is Brahman and Brahman is Atman. It is Shivam Advaitam. Indescribable but the object of knowledge.

    Maha Narayana Upanishad
    XIII-4: Narayana is the Supreme Reality designated as Brahman. Narayana is the highest (Self). Narayana is the supreme Light (described in the Upanishads). Narayana is the infinite Self. [Narayana is the most excellent meditator and meditation.]

    Lord of Shushupti is Vena, the Saguna Lord, Sarvesvara who is )jW:an:G:n:.(pure dense consciousness). He is the origin and dissolution of all beings. He is bliss. Saguna Lord is considered to have FIVE ASPECTS of Creation, Sustenance, Dissolution, Veiling and Grace. These five aspects or faces should not be confused with the three stations of Turya Shivam Advaitam Atma – which has no second.

    Lord of Taijjassa is Surya/Hiranayagarbha, which is the subtle beginning of gross manifestations.

    Lord of Vaisvanaro is Indra.
    -----------
    Shivam Advaitam is Vishnu (who is said to originate from Soma), traversing the three stations.

    -----------
    From the perspective of Jivas (who are the faces of thoughts arising in )jW:an:G:n:.the experience of Turya Brahman, is traditionally said to occur through seven states. These are called the seven states of experience as below.


    -----------
    Turya is neither being nor non being -- Eko without "I AM". It is the seed of "I". Or it is the pure "I", the Self. It never slumbers.

    Shushupti is "I AM" -- associated with Shakti. Jalasayana. Lord sporting with Jaganmaya.
    -----------

    The Self that is to be known is Advaita Atma. One and Atma -- the Self (not another). By the definition itself, the Self -- the Paramparastad, cannot be known by remaining a second to it.

    Om Shanti Om Shanti Om Shanti
    Om

    Namaste atanu,
    thank you for your post... if you look above some of the verbiage cannot be read, perhaps you can edit accordingly?
    Example: The knowledge is that the fourth -- this self is not onlyeS:v:m: ¾òt:ö but it has to be known as eS:v:m:¾òt: -- indivisible and good.

    This next section is offered via nishkamya bhava, without selfish motive, and with a spirit in inquery for correct understanding.

    Regarding the following:
    Turya Atman is Brahman and Brahman is Atman. It is Shivam Advaitam. Indescribable but the object of knowledge.

    I believe this is the case, yet can you comment on the following from the Brahma Sutras , Adhyaya 1.1.4

    Tattu Samanvayat
    Tat: that; Tu: but; Samanvayat: on account of agreement or harmony,because it is the main purpose.
    That is, Brahman is to be known~understood~ via the the Scriptures and not independently by any other means is established, because it is the main purpose of all Vedantic texts.

    I do not see Brahman itSELF as an object of knowledge. As the Object-Subject-and the mechanics of perception are all on thing. If the suggestion is Brahman is an object, like an apple I can hold in my hand and inspect, I do not concur. e.g. an object of the senses.

    Brahman as I have been taught, is to be experienced vs. inspected as an object. Brahma Sakshtkara ( Self Realization) is an experience, a 'ahhh ha!' An epiphany of discovery. This is why my orienetation of turiya has been the subject of focus for my posts/offerings...turiya from an experiential level. This does not mean we cannot read and ponder Brahman, as this is the Upanisads. This turya [vs turiya] is very subtle indeed and is no doubt Brahman, yet I cannot hold it in my hands ( this is my experience, perhaps others see it differently).

    And there is a difference in understanding and comprehension between turya and triya, of this there is no doubt.

    Yet if you summed your conclusions above say 5 bullet points what would they be? As I review all the posts there are a few common threads - consciousness, experience, turiya and turya co-existing, the relationship to Brhaman, what is the 4th and what is consciousness, etc. [ this is not a directive, or even a suggested outline, just an idea ]

    IMHO I think the reader would be rewarded with a conclusion i.e. your 'therefore' opinion on this matter.


    satyam jnanam anantam brahma


    pranams,

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Namaste Yajvan Ji,

    And there is a difference in understanding and comprehension between turya and triya, of this there is no doubt.
    I note that all major commentators have used Turiya for the fourth of Mandukya upanishad. But if Gaudapada used Turya for the fourth of Mandukya Upanishad (as noted by Shri Sarabhanga ji), then I have been talking about the fourth all the time.

    IMHO I think the reader would be rewarded with a conclusion i.e. your 'therefore' opinion on this matter.
    I am not sure that I understand above sentence. That the whole thing is my understanding (and therefore my opinion) is noted near the beginning of my post.

    ... if you look above some of the verbiage cannot be read, perhaps you can edit accordingly?
    Example: The knowledge is that the fourth -- this self is not onlyeS:v:m: ¾òt:ö but it has to be known as eS:v:m:¾òt: -- indivisible and good.
    I can correctly see the fonts of my post (but not in your reply). Possibly you may need to install appropriate fonts – this is a guess.

    Regarding the following:
    Turya Atman is Brahman and Brahman is Atman. It is Shivam Advaitam. Indescribable but the object of knowledge.
    Yes, it is the subject, which the mind has to know. Thank you. I have corrected the above to read “---Indescribable but the objective of knowledge----’ The goal, as in Gita below.

    BG13.13 Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;
    Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.
    BG13.13. I will declare that which has to be known, knowing which one attains to immortality, the beginningless supreme Brahman, called neither being nor non-being.

    Regards
    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  4. #4
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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste Yajvan Ji,
    I note that all major commentators have used Turiya for the fourth of Mandukya upanishad. But if Gaudapada used Turya for the fourth of Mandukya Upanishad (as noted by Shri Sarabhanga ji), then I have been talking about the fourth all the time.

    I am not sure that I understand above sentence. That the whole thing is my understanding (and therefore my opinion) is noted near the beginning of my post.

    I can correctly see the fonts of my post (but not in your reply). Possibly you may need to install appropriate fonts – this is a guess.

    Yes, it is the subject, which the mind has to know. Thank you. I have corrected the above to read “---Indescribable but the objective of knowledge----’ The goal, as in Gita below.

    BG13.13 Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;
    Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.
    BG13.13. I will declare that which has to be known, knowing which one attains to immortality, the beginningless supreme Brahman, called neither being nor non-being.
    Regards Om
    Namaste atanu,
    I now undersand your orientation on this...

    Thank you for correcting object to objective - it now reads well.

    re: font. I have most fonts loaded including various sanscrit true type fonts; is what you see in sanscrit? if so , what is the font name and I will go fetch it.

    re: turiya and turya - there were multiple posts on this matter. It seemed to be a point of difference. As it could be used for a person established in turya e.g. turiyatit chetana (sustained turya), and also tutya that level of Being , quality-less, undefinable, all the things that we have addressed. That said;

    My understanding has not changed, not due to being stuborn, but being able to discriminate between a conscious state that can support the experience of turya vs. turya BEING that state of consciousness. It took me several reads to get your perpsective on this as I see your point. So what is my orrientation? For me, turiyatit chetana can co-exist as a level of Being with turya at its foundation even though turya is not conscious state itself. [ this for me would be a concluding point ].


    regarding ' That the whole thing is my understanding (and therefore my opinion) is noted near the beginning of my post.'
    Yes, As I was thinking of your position and conclusion, I read it as a restatement of the various Upanishads you have offered as the audit trail of thinking. Yes, I see it as your understanding, got it. So, its one of style of writing. I was thinking is there a way for you to net out your opinions then, to final conclusions, in a terse format i.e. with out the audit trail. This is just my training coming out.



    Thank you for addressing the questions. I am in hopes there are others that engage on this matter. It is the 'raw materials' for deeper learning.



    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 24 September 2007 at 06:52 PM. Reason: improved read-ability
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Namaste atanu,
    I now undersand your orientation on this...
    ----
    re: turiya and turya - there were multiple posts on this matter. It seemed to be a point of difference. As it could be used for a person established in turya e.g. turiyatit chetana (sustained turya), and also tutya that level of Being , quality-less, undefinable, all the things that we have addressed. That said;

    My understanding has not changed, not due to being stuborn, but being able to discriminate between a conscious state that can support the experience of turya vs. turya BEING that state of consciousness. It took me several reads to get your perpsective on this as I see your point. So what is my orrientation? For me, turiyatit chetana can co-exist as a level of Being with turya at its foundation even though turya is not conscious state itself. [ this for me would be a concluding point ].
    Namaskar Yajvan Ji,

    Regarding a terse conclusion, let it rain automatically.

    Regarding the 'Turya' vs. 'Turya chetana of an individual', let it rain first.

    Note:
    This has been the subject throughout: advaitaatma can be realised as advaitaatma only and not as another. But Yes, Ramana Maharshi talks of Sahaja Samadhi. It does not mean that Turiyatita individual or Brahmvidvarishta (who is no more an individual) has gone higher than the advaitaatma Turya who is one without a second. The point is that nothing transcends Turya. Brahmvidvarishta is non-different from Turya and has all freedom (to be many by animating bodies and to traverse through the three states).


    Its a tricky thing, surely not comprehensible and describable from the waking state. And possibly, we are trying to say the same thing.

    Surely, turiyatit chetana can co-exist as a level of Being with turya at its foundation. Else it is meaningless to attain the goal. But Turya itself is said to be omniscience itself.

    Regards
    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 25 September 2007 at 01:02 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    The point is that nothing transcends Turya.
    Regards
    Om
    Namaste atanu,

    yes, this has been in focus...

    so some concluding sutras:
    • Nothing transcends Turya
    • Brahmvidvarishta is non-different from Turya
    • Brahma Sakshtkara ( Self Realization) is turiyatit chetana (sustained turya), and is experienced by the native; a purely subjective experience.
    • turiyatit chetana is not personality development, yet ones level of Being completely changes.
    • Let the rain come on time, let the crops be plentiful; may the native know s/he is the rain, the sun and the stars. As this is Brahman, and I am That.
    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 18 August 2008 at 11:19 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #7
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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Namaste atanu,
    yes, this has been in focus...
    so some concluding sutras:
    • Nothing transcends Turya
    • Brahmvidvarishta is non-different from Turya
    • Brahma Sakshtkara ( Self Realization) is turiyatit chetana (sustained turya), and is experinced by the native; a purely subjective experince.
    • turiyatit chetana is not personality development, yet ones level of Being completely changes.
    • Let the rain come on time, let the crops be plentiful; may the native know s/he is the rain, the sun and the stars. As this is Brahman, and I am That.
    pranams,
    Yajvan Ji Pranam

    I see that it has rained. There is a lightness, freshness and happiness.


    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaskar Yajvan Ji,

    ---
    Surely, turiyatit chetana can co-exist as a level of Being with turya at its foundation. Else it is meaningless to attain the goal. But Turya itself is said to be omniscience itself.

    Regards
    Om
    That said, 'one who sees any difference here goes from death to death' should also apply.

    If the 'turiyatit chetana' that co-exists as a being separate from Turya Brahman (by animating a body/bodies in a state of waking or dreaming), considers itself as truly separate with thoughts such as "I am so and so' then it has to come back.

    A momentary lapse and a thought of separate I becomes the world. This momentary lapse is called 'forgetfulness of one's true nature' or 'going into sleep'.

    Rig Veda says that Rudra never slumbers. One can only imagine what difficult task God has set for himself. There are times when Gods are said to go to sleep and certain ceremonies are not performed during those periods. But I comprehend the Abhaya Mudra of Lord -- He never slumbers.

    For a Shiva devotee no time is inauspicious.

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Regarding the 'Turya' vs. 'Turya chetana of an individual', let it rain first.
    Namaste atanu,

    Do you care to offer turya-rasa? or the nector one is to recieve from establishing this in ones Being?

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: The Summary of Import of Turya

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Namaste atanu,

    Do you care to offer turya-rasa? or the nector one is to recieve from establishing this in ones Being?

    pranams,
    Namaste Yajvan,

    I can only say that let it rain.

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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