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Thread: My friends, I need your opinions

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    My friends, I need your opinions

    Greetings,

    If we were tackling the problem of say.. an illness.... like Diabetes... would you prefer and seek out an Ayurvedic treatment over that of modern medicine? Or would you stick to modern medicine and ignore Ayurvedic treatment? Or would you use Ayurvedic treatment to supplement modern medicine?

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Personally id go see a modern diabetes specialist, diavetes is nothing to play around with.

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Khadgar View Post
    Greetings,

    If we were tackling the problem of say.. an illness.... like Diabetes... would you prefer and seek out an Ayurvedic treatment over that of modern medicine? Or would you stick to modern medicine and ignore Ayurvedic treatment? Or would you use Ayurvedic treatment to supplement modern medicine?
    Diabetes is becoming an epidemic now. Lot more Indians are diagnosed with this disease. It is better we try to understand the disease and try to modify our life styles. There is nothing to be ashamed or live in fear. Indian foods are in general rich in starch and sugar. Vegetarian foods can be deceiving unless we pay attention. Following strict diet may not completely insure us against diabetes. Modern medicine does have (relatively) proven drugs for diabetes and it is better to stick to this.
    Ayurvedic medicine has not been put under strict scientific scrutiny but I do not want to completely undermine its safety and efficacy.

    Again, there is nothing to be afraid. Just seek the advice of a good physician. ....Love

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Diabetes is becoming an epidemic now. Lot more Indians are diagnosed with this disease. It is better we try to understand the disease and try to modify our life styles. There is nothing to be ashamed or live in fear. Indian foods are in general rich in starch and sugar.
    Actually, Indian foods are much better than the junk foods of the west and Europe. For example, pizza, saphagethi, mcdonald’s etc. are all junk foods that are poison for the body due to high carbohydrates. Indians in India are generally of good health and no diabetes. Diabetes is a big problem for all westerners including immigrants that come from all over the world not just from India. For example, a medical doctor friend of mine has been monitoring this trend. According to him, even Koreans that migrate to the west gain 40 pounds in ten years after migrating to US or Canada.
    This is due to the ridiculous lifestyle of the west in general and junk foods that are high in carbs.

    Indian diet is usually the best because of the spices used, for example, ginger, garlic, onion are all good for the health and all used heavily in typical Indian food.

    Diabetes is a huge epidemic in the west due to the lazy life style here. According to my MD friend one in every five persons is diabetic in US and Canada!

    Westerners (including those immigrants that eat the western junk food) should stop eating junk foods and start eating Indian foods instead or at least use the same ingredients as Indians for a better healthy life.


    Ayurvedic medicine has not been put under strict scientific scrutiny but I do not want to completely undermine its safety and efficacy.
    Modern science has to first learn to speak ABC and stand on their own feed before they are able to scruntize the science discovered 5000 years ago.

    Modern science is only about 300 years old and is incompetent in diagnosing Ayurveda or other medical practices of the Ancient times (like e.g. Chinese medicine)

    In Love…
    satay

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste Khadgar (et.al)

    If you are indicating you have this situation, then yes , doing both - seeing a medical doctor is needed. Then a good ayurvedic doctor.
    One is short term to corner the problem, the second (Ayurvedic) is to potentially correct the problem or see if there is a root cause.

    I have a slightly differerent view on this matter i.e. what is good for you and what is not. It boils down to the 6 tastes and what is satvic, rajasic and tamasic.

    Overall health in the USA is getting better, but its not preventive medicine. What is the key indicator? Dollars spent. In 2005, $2 TRILLION in heathcare was spent. Lets assuime 1/2 of that was administrative costs. You still have $1 trillion being spent. AND - its not health on pro-active prevention, its on the level of treatment. By 2015 this is expencted to rise to $4 trillion*

    So , whats the deal? IMHO:
    In the west ,Americans have cornered the market on sweet, sour and salty. It then offers the issues the west now faces and one is diabetes and obesity. [ oh, by the way I can afford to lose a few pounds myself! ].
    6 tastes:
    Sweet
    Sour
    Salty
    Astringent
    Pungent
    Bitter

    Excessive sweet gives issues , yet what of the sweetness of a peach? perfect satva. And of salty? One potato chip or the bag, one pretzel or the bag. Yet we can find salt in celery (an offering we need must have). Sour in lemons, pickles, etc. A 'taste' we need but not over done. What is missing, is the other 'tastes' astringent, pungent and bitter. If one did only these tastes, then a different set of issues arise.

    Also there is excessive meat eating. I am not a fan of this. Even beyond and above yama-niyama principles. Meat , as I see it, study it, is not a food-stuff that is conducive to good heath.

    Talking tamasic
    IN the USA about 12 million tons of beef is consumed yearly... [ Japan ~ 1.3 million tons ] . It is shrinking, yet that's still substantial. And I bet most of the kids that are eating a McDonald's 'happy meal' do not have a clue on where that sandwich originates from and the grief that goes with that burger. That said, most all countries export beef as a business and trade *.


    Ayurved
    It is good to get involved in your health. A very wise person said, physician heal thy self. For me, that suggests knowing something about the body functioning. I found Ayurved to meet this need.

    When I think of Ayur-ved, I commonly look to 5 key concepts I have been taught:
    • Food is medicine, medicine is food.
    • Dis-ease comes from the disharmony of the 5 elements ( tattvas)
    • Like increases like ( that is, the more of the same gives you more of the same!)
    • Whatever affects the body affects the mind ( and vice versa)
    • "As above, so below" - that is, every thing that exists in the universe has its counterpart in the internal body-universe of the individual.
    'So, yajvan are you in perfect shape, perfect health' - Nope. But I have a clue on what works for me, and have a direction to pursue. Health is top of mind.



    * source: http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
    http://ffas.usda.gov/dlp2/circular/2...foverview.html


    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 September 2007 at 07:33 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Khadgar : You are getting a lot of different points of view here. Probably a good thing, as you can read more about it that way. Ironically, about 3 days ago I attended a professional development seminar on diabetes. I am a teacher, and the session was led by a health nurse who was helping us understand whats its like to have a diabetic student in your class, and I do have a 12 year old girl this year in my class. She was not obese, on a poor diet, or any of that, but just developed the disease. It is becoming more prevalent, and can happen to anyone, regardless of diet etc. Diet, lack of exercise etc are only contributing factors. i.e. - your risk is increased..With proper medication, and diet, the blood sugar levels can be controlled. My student must test her blood sugar thrice daily, but she has gotten used to it. If it drops too far, it can be very dangerous. (During the initial stages last year before she was diagnosed properly, she nearly died.) We have come a very long way medically with the control of diabetes. It is much better understood now. A western health care professional can help you out a lot. In the end, however, you and you alone will be responsible for the maintenance and adjustments needed to keep your blood sugar steady, and not bouncing all over. I personally know a diabetic who has been taking insulin since the days of Banting.. she is now 91 years or so. Quite old for a diabetic. But this is good news for you. Lots of diabetics learn to live with the disease, and you don't even know they have it unless they tell you. As far as ayurveda goes, I'm sure it probably works too, but most medicinal practitioners are somewhat knowledgible in both systems, so one may refer you to the other, or vice versa. Good luck in the treatment of your condition, and your lifestyle changes that will be needed in treatment. Aum Namashivaya

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Actually, Indian foods are much better than the junk foods of the west and Europe. .......Indians in India are generally of good health and no diabetes. ........
    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Indian diet is usually the best because of the spices used, for example, ginger, garlic, onion are all good for the health and all used heavily in typical Indian food. ...............................…
    Thank you for your views. Am sorry, I do disagree with you, there is a large strict vegetarian population in India who are diabetics. Even though the disease is more prevalent among people with poor diet habits, it does happen to "real" people. My strict vegan great father in law who lived till he was 95 was a diabetic.
    An article appeared in recent Time of India ...............
    A new research has found that Western food is a lesser evil than the Indian bhatura or parathas. Digest this — while the trans-fatty acids (hydrogenated oils and fats) in French fries (per 100 gm) is 4.2%-6.1%, it is 9.5% in bhatura, 7.8% in paratha and 7.6% each in puri and tikkis.
    These findings were presented at a conference on "Fats and trans-fatty acids in Indian diet" at the Seventh Health Writers Workshop organised by Health Essayists and Authors League (HEAL) here by Anoop Misra, director and head, department of diabetes and metabolic diseases at the Fortis Group of Hospitals. "The myth must go. While we blame Western food as junk, Indian food is worse. The presence of trans-fatty acids in our food is much higher posing a risk for development of diabetes and coronary heart disease in early 20s and 30s," he said. This is, however, not to say that Western food is healthier. It is just less harmful than Indian dishes.
    Doctors, nutritionists and dietitians spelt out the urgent need to ban food with trans-fat content especially because India is home to highest number of diabetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Modern science has to first learn to speak ABC ...... the science discovered 5000 years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Modern science is only about 300 years old and is incompetent in diagnosing Ayurveda or other medical practices of the Ancient times
    Probably we will never understand the "Science" of ancient times, we can only speculate. I am not here to condemn the old practices most of which are faith based and cannot be proved or disproved. Rules of Science do not apply here. No herbal physician questions scientific validity of any medicine he prescribes. Current medical practice is evidence based, the remarkable progress we have made especially in the last century must continue for the benefit of our children and future generations. Science keeps evolving and never claims it has a magic ’cure’ for any disease.


    Again, to answer to our friend's question I would advise him to seek an internist or a specialist in diabetes. We can keep debating in general about diabetes and point our fingers at the bad food people eat. This will not individually help our friend; he needs an honest, caring, knowledgeable and open minded modern physician.
    ......Love

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post

    Thank you for your views. Am sorry, I do disagree with you, there is a large strict vegetarian population in India who are diabetics.

    You don’t have to feel sorry if you disagree with me.

    Even though the disease is more prevalent among people with poor diet habits, it does happen to "real" people.
    Not sure what you are trying to imply by putting real in quotes. Yes, I do know that real people get diabetes.

    My strict vegan great father in law who lived till he was 95 was a diabetic.
    An article appeared in recent Time of India ...............
    A new research has found that Western food is a lesser evil than the Indian bhatura or parathas. Digest this — while the trans-fatty acids (hydrogenated oils and fats) in French fries (per 100 gm) is 4.2%-6.1%, it is 9.5% in bhatura, 7.8% in paratha and 7.6% each in puri and tikkis.
    These findings are misleading and I regret to read that as an Indian you didn’t see through that. Any fried food is bad for you period, be they fried rice of chienese restaurant, fries from mcdonalds, fried chicken from KFC or bhatura from India.

    The facts are that though junk food like mcdonald’s fries, fried chicken, pizza etc. are the main meals of an American family today Bhatura is a treat. I don’t any Indians eating bhatura as convenience foods and eating everyday. Bhatura for example, takes a lot of preparation, it is rarely perhaps when all family gets together on a special occasion that an Indian household cooks bhatura to celebrate something. I also don’t see poor people of India eating bhutras for supper! A bowl of rice or chapatti is usually all a poor man can afford.

    I realize that you have a deep wound from Indian culture and especially Hinduism and it is hard for you to be objective because shooting down anything Indian makes you feel good, however, we can not ignore the good in Indian diet. Garlic, ginger, spices like clove etc. have great healing quality even according the young immature science we have. Don’t you agree?

    This is, however, not to say that Western food is healthier. It is just less harmful than Indian dishes.
    Please do your own research and look at the number of diabetic patients in the US and Canada. Then find out what the cause of this is. Though it may be comforting to know that western food is healthier than Indian food while we swallow the last slice of extra large meat lovers pizza, reality is quite different. Most ingredients used in Indian foods are excellent for health. This has been proven and stated by scientists of US. Please do your research on this.

    Doctors, nutritionists and dietitians spelt out the urgent need to ban food with trans-fat content especially because India is home to highest number of diabetics.
    All foods containing trans fats are bad for you. Any ignorant knows that saying ‘india is home to highest number of diabetics’ is an incorrect statement that has no meaning in itself. For creditability sake, you should present percentages simply saying highest number doesn’t make any sense since India has the second largest population. Let’s see some percentages…

    Probably we will never understand the "Science" of ancient times, we can only speculate.
    Perhaps we will once the modern science finds “cure” for common cold?

    I am not here to condemn the old practices most of which are faith based and cannot be proved or disproved. Rules of Science do not apply here. No herbal physician questions scientific validity of any medicine he prescribes. Current medical practice is evidence based, the remarkable progress we have made especially in the last century must continue for the benefit of our children and future generations. Science keeps evolving and never claims it has a magic ’cure’ for any disease.
    I am not here to condemn the medical science either, in fact, most of my friends are in the medical profession (like the one who is following the trend with immigrants getting fat once they migrate here to the west), however, it is regrettable that most medical science has closed it self in a box and refuses to look any other options other than the ones that will make the owners of drug companies richer.

    Hopefully, in our lifetime medical science will “evolve” to a point where we can actually have a cure of common cold. In the meantime, I am sticking to the herbal tea…
    satay

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    According to the WHO (World Health Organisation) site, which I would think is fairly reliable (perhaps not so in India or any 'developing' country as many things may go undiagnosed) the percentage of the population in 2004 with diabetes was 5.9 in the U.S. and 2.8 in India. Not sure if this is of any help, as it only considers the whole population, and doesn't take into account socio-economic factors. According to the 'health professional' in my account above, the main cause is high sugar intake, which of course is a problem in both countries. Aum Namashivaya

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    Re: My friends, I need your opinions

    Namaste All,

    It is my very personal experience that so-called scientific medical practice is largely controlled by business. Though I am not negating the knowledge base.

    Satay is absolutely correct to say that modern medicine should find a cure for common cold etc first. Finding the source of disease outside oneself is basically faulty. At age of thirty, I had lot many problems, in respiratory tract, in skin, as gout, as proctitis, as unstable BP etc. etc. And I had almost lost all hopes. Antibiotics, antihistamines, and steroids kept on compounding the problem.

    Auyrveda tackles all health problems holistically. But in my case, Hoemeopathy did the trick. Now, I do not know that there were severe problems.

    However, for acute problems, modern medicine may surely be relied upon. But finally, if the smooth flow of breathing keeps getting disturbed, then no medicine will help.

    For long term goodness, I will suggest short term modern medicine treatment (if required on account of acuteness) supported and followed by Auyrveda and Yoga (under a good guru). Smooth rythm of life force (breathing) will solve any rectifiable problem, so sattwik life is a must. Attaining a balance between mental, physical, and spiritual activities help.


    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 26 September 2007 at 11:06 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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