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Thread: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

  1. #1

    The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    ... its an well known classic. I have started reading from this week. I must say it is a rare powerful book and I am glad to have started reading it.

    Thoughts to follow ... (subject to whimsies of my mind).

    If anyone here has already gone through the book before and more importantly the points it deals with, pls share your thoughts here.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  2. Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    Haven't read it before, but I have heard that it is, as you mention, a very powerful book. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on it as you continue to read it. Be well.

  3. #3

    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    The Great Liberation Through Hearing a.k.a. "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" is basically a guide to help the dying attain liberation during the bardos. This is the gap between life and death.
    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate.
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih!

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    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    namaste singhi,

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    ... its an well known classic. I have started reading from this week. I must say it is a rare powerful book and I am glad to have started reading it.

    Thoughts to follow .
    so how is the book?
    satay

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    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    ... its an well known classic. I have started reading from this week. I must say it is a rare powerful book and I am glad to have started reading it.

    Thoughts to follow ... (subject to whimsies of my mind).

    If anyone here has already gone through the book before and more importantly the points it deals with, pls share your thoughts here.
    Mentions Yama but they forgot his other half....Shiva.

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    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    I found it very helpful. However, the perceptions after death is just a projection of our mind & so is guided by our belief system. Therefore, imo, it should be adjusted accordingly for each person differently.

    The most important thing this book underlines is that death cannot be taken lightly but at the same time should not be seen with fear. The second thing it emphasizes is that purification of mind (i.e. non-attachment to & Non-duality ) must be done when we are alive. This is because the condition of mind at the time of death decides what we see, hear & act in that bardo. It also lays emphasis on the meditation & japa practices which helps mind to become focussed, ungrasping, calm & fearless. Praying to Guru, Buddhas, God-figure & making intense spiritual relation with them helps in those bardos. If the mental body is able to remember them in that bardo, they appear & rescue the being by taking to their realms & help in liberation.

    I would like to hear what others have to say.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    By reading the experiences in Bardo of becoming, I think, if one is really enlightened, he will be able to control the events in his dream.

    Any thoughts ?
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  8. #8

    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    By reading the experiences in Bardo of becoming, I think, if one is really enlightened, he will be able to control the events in his dream.

    Any thoughts ?

    Then his mindstream won't be cast away here and there, like leaves blown and scattered about by the wind.
    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate.
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih!

  9. #9

    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    Namaste

    Sorry to bring an old thread up, but its inline with some of the study that I am doing now and looks a good platform to talk from rather than start a new post and due to it being a popular title, it was the second book I ever read on eastern religions at the time after my first book was on Ch'an. I will share what I know on this and if any one cares to add anything from this view, which is more in align with the Tibetan Book of the Dead or the Great Liberation.

    Bardo is an intermediate state, there are 6 intermediate states in the Bardo


    1. the natural bardo of this life (Skt. jatyantarābhava; Tib. རང་བཞིན་སྐྱེ་བའི་བར་དོ་; Wyl. rang bzhin skye ba'i bar do) which begins when a connection with a new birth is first made and continues until the conditions that will certainly lead to death become manifest.
    2. the painful bardo of dying (Skt. mumūrṣāntarābhava; Tib. འཆི་ཁ་གནད་གཅོད་ཀྱི་བར་དོ་; Wyl. 'chi kha gnad gcod kyi bar do) which begins when these conditions manifest and continues until the 'inner respiration' ceases and the luminosity of the dharmakaya dawns.
    3. the luminous bardo of dharmata (Skt. dharmatāntarābhava; Tib. ཆོས་ཉིད་འོད་གསལ་གྱི་བར་དོ་; Wyl. chos nyid 'od gsal gyi bar do) which lasts from the moment the dharmakaya luminosity dawns after death and continues until the visions of precious spontaneous perfection are complete.
    4. the karmic bardo of becoming (Skt. bhāvāntarābhava; Tib. སྲིད་པ་ལས་ཀྱི་བར་དོ་; Wyl. srid pa las kyi bar do) which lasts from the moment the bardo body is created and continues until the connection with a new rebirth is made.
    5. the bardo of meditation (Skt. samādhyantarābhava; Wyl. bsam gtan gyi bar do)
    6. the bardo of dreaming (Skt. svapanāntarābhava; Wyl. rmi lam gyi bar do)


    This is from the ripa wiki and the one I could find easy. If any interest one can do an individual study of the bardo states.

    Bardo that generally people think of is the state where we physically die and the chitta is then being directed to find suitable conditions for regrowth. In this state one is attracted by several types of wombs, some are enticing and attractive but if followed they lead to hellish torture, so I guess it gets a bit tricky, there are loud noises and the chitta looks to attach onto something to begin the regrowing of for, in this way he gets trapped in a set of conditions and starts the process of regeneration of the gross elements. If one has chitta training in life there is more hope that within the sudden appearances of new phenomenon one remains calm and learns how to hold onto to his samadhi or dhyana, there is no external consciousness through the senses and even at this point the brain is also dead but there is continuum of consciousness.

    I have only revisited Bardo today as a part of theme related to prajna . Essentially bardo just means intermediate state, or the state inbetween and 6 such classifications have been given, The time of first Birth in this present body to the last breath, that is considered one intermediate state, the time between one life and another and can be refined, one thought and so on and so on until the moment of the Great Bardo or the madhyamika, the intermediate state between the two extremes, prajna, the vraja dharma, sushupti, sunya, it is this stage within Buddhism that is the goal of all processes, often very badly translated as the Great Void, but it is no Void it is the totality of illumination that leads to direct knowing of the Self, everything is centered to come to this intermediate state in all practies and yoga systems . I dont want to approach this intellectually but if there is any desire to know more about the vraja, bardo and prajna as states in the Tibetan culture is very rich in this and I do not know qho is the best to learn from or what books to start with. It is however a very important part to understand, more so how its activated. In Bhagavad Gita entry into prajna Sri Krsna uses the word prasade, but prasade can be earned, its not totally random, it just cant be controlled unless one is an advanced yogi. I would say most the dharma shastra is writing about this state, because in this state Turiya is known, shakti and shiva are mixing unobscured by external awareness. In Early Buddhism of the Nikyas~ formless grantha's, Bardo is only spoken in very abstract language and very minimal in the form of the arupa jhanas, but the Tibetan and Vedanta texts are rich in Prajna, which in itself once known fully is complete.

    Prajna is quite unique and perfectly applicable to our condition, it should not be seen as something mystical and far off, its learned through complete balance, without taking any of the profoundness from it, its supramundane, its beyond the mind, in its most simple form its how nirguna and saguna are mixing at all times in this world, like a flower and the scent of a flower and by our increased awareness of this one sees reality as a whole and everything becomes complete, it is this intermediate state that has been preserved so well in the Eastern World, and is so lacking in Monotheism and empirical learning and sciences, but has always played an essential part in ancient life and expressed in the texts.

    Prajna is activated by definition of the Bhagavad Gita and universally accepted in all the processes outlined is the perfection of equanimity of the Jagrat and Svapna, sense and mental activity.

    Just some passing notes

    something from the vraja tradition on Tara

    http://theyoginiproject.org/21-taras...entse-rinpoche

    Harih OM
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 10 June 2018 at 03:39 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying

    Namaste,

    What is the intermediate bardo state that becomes the main essential goal, prajna~wisdom which then leads to full realization. Turiya is unknown and cannot be known in the present conditions, like blind leading the blind, even if by good intention. It seems to me as a human being that without wisdom or the full understanding of wisdom the real fruit of life is not gained.

    Wisdom is always in balance, the full potentials are opened in wisdom, in fact there is little to argue about in the wisdom stage, although in lower maya wisdom fights to elevate and bring union to itself as Mahamaya. Wisdom is complete because it covers both the exoteric world, or the world of the mind and the senses and the esoteric world and brings them into full balance and harmony to bring wholeness , completeness Self Realization.

    But what is wisdom, if its being sold on the strengths of its own merits then everyone would want some, wisdom or prajna is hard to attain as Arjuna is explaining to Sri Krsna. It becomes the grey area of life, the intuitive but its more than that, there is no real description of it but its felt in its expression and is profound, uplifting to all, judging nobody and embracing everything in pure sattva, all divisions are ending at this point and the profound announces itself, the silent roar.

    All Dharma traditions are unified by it, they see the same essence in diversity. All ancient writings seem to cover this middle way, the wisdom state, in Daosim its the balance of the heaven and the earths, that is the Way ~The Dao, which brings complete enlightenment. The great awakening is the prajna state, in the prajna state, which is expounded in unlimited ways keeping the same essence was what the ancients spoke about and pointed too and was absorbed in, the Self, Turiya or the 4th, Tathagata was intimately included and embedded in the prajna state of the great vehicle.

    Turiya becomes known in prajna state, Turiya cannot be known without prajna, prajna cannot be known unless there is full equanimity. The wise spoke of this great intermediate state Bardo and the great awakening of prajna which reveals the Absolute.

    Incidentally the division between hinayana and mahayana in its pure and real meaning is the lesser, the hina, is the individual jiva who strives for equanimity and liberation according to the ways of noble eightfold path, ones individual sadhana, that same individual on the perfection of his practice reaches the arupa stages and enters into universal state of mahayana the prajna state, beyond the individual Jivas limited state., in essence its going from jagrat and svapna to sushupti the awakened automatic state where there no awareness or only slight awareness of ordinary mind and sense consciousness.

    The Tibetans also have a very interesting way to talk about the 3 lokas/avastha and their interpretation of waking, dreaming and deep sleep, which they put in order of jagrat~consciousness experienced in the senses, svapna dream as in our normal day to day perception of life of who were are , according to that view we are in svapna state now, either dictated by sensual/mental consciousness or prajna ( which is always carrying the essence of turiya) or a mix to various degrees and sushupti as the mahayana the great way~ prajna.

    All karmas good and bad are burned out in prajna state by the fire of transcendental knowledge jnana agni, , all dis-alignments are realigned, sun and moon find perfect empowerment.

    In prajna state arupa Dhyana, consciousness without awareness of the mental and physcial, chitta is transformed, its retrained or illumined in both the exoteric and the esoteric, chitta mixing with saguna and nirguna, activated the balance of the empirical and lucid which are both empowered and perfected by a divine transcendent with qualities of sat, chit and ananda. This stage is so important to reach, all guidance or the dharmas are realized in the arupa or formless purifying states. But its not empty, there is cosmic dance of shiva and shakti. This part of dharma the most interesting, both for esoteric reflections and hopefully more clear experiences but also its impact when it comes back to normal consciousness.

    None of this activated or known without experience of prajna, which can come in many ways, it becomes a process of life and developing the profound~sadhana/upaya/upasana along side normal day to day activities with mindfulness. Im not wise by the way, to erratic sometimes, so this is just an entry, a sharing, its universal, wisdom belongs to nobody but everyone at the same time, it comes in the desire-less stage, in between waking and sleeping normal states, its the way of non duality while having perfect equilibrium in duality, when it comes its automatic.

    On the most practical level it seems just to encourage one to really find out what is wisdom. The same codes will be in each tradition as prajna is universal not limited to one condition or individual, how these codes then guide our life is the important thing, our actions speech and attitudes, and the development of our awareness of the profound in each moment.

    Simple but not easy


    Harih Om
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 13 June 2018 at 01:04 PM.

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