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Thread: Siva Sutras

  1. #41
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    Re: Siva Sutras

    हरि ॐ
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    Tatpravrttau api anirasah samvetr-bhavat
    32. Such a yogi, though apparently engrossed in the daily routine of life, is in no way separated from God-Consciousness.

    Sukha-duhkhayor bahirmananam
    33. Because such a yogi perceives the states of pain and pleasure only superficially, they, in no case, affect his state of Supreme-Being Consciousness.

    Tadvimuktastu kevali
    34. Hence he is liberated from the states of pain and pleasure and is uniquely established in his own nature.

    Mohapratisamhatas tu karmatma
    35. On the contrary, the one who feels the absence of God-Consciousness in the states of pain and pleasure, is an individual soul and a victim of recurring births and deaths.
    We continue in the Third Awakening Section

    Bheda-tiraskare Sargantara-karmatvam
    36. The one who stands, aloof from differentiatedness becomes the creator and destroyer of the entire Universe.

    Karanasaktih Svato'nubhavat
    37. The energy of creating and destroying the whole Universe comes within the experience of such a yogi just as an ordinary soul possesses the power to create and destroy during his dreaming state.

    Tripadadyanuprananam
    38. The state of Turya God-Consciousness, that comes into experience in the beginning and at the end of the other three states (viz. Jagrat, Svapana and Susupti), should be infused and transmitted into these three states by firmly establishing one's own awareness during these intervals viz. beginning and end thereof.

    Cittasthitivat Sarira-karana-bahyesu
    39. And by developing such process, a yogi must transmit the God Consciousness not only into the three states of individuality but into the entire Universe.

    Abhilasat bahirgatih samvahyasya
    40. By the slight appearance of individual desire, one is carried far away from the state of God-Consciousness.


    Now Swami Laksmanjoo says something a bit different in his book on sutra 36. He says 'He drives away the field of differentiated perception' - that is he, the yogin or yogini ignores differentiated perception i.e duality of indiviual consciousness.
    It says in the Svacchanda Tantra , when you fix your awareness not only in two but in three, you are carried to God Conciousnss [turiya] and you become one with Svacchanda. [Svacchanda is Bharirava ]

    This triple awareness is another way of expressing the gap or the junction point. That is one is not only aware of the in-breath and the out-breath, but of the junction of the two, of that sandhya, where it is neither one or the other.


    5 sutras [सूत्र - to sew or stitch] remain...

    ॐ नमः िशवाय

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 November 2007 at 10:17 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #42
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    Re: Siva Sutras

    हरि ॐ
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post


    We continue in the Third Awakening Section

    Bheda-tiraskare Sargantara-karmatvam
    36. The one who stands, aloof from differentiatedness becomes the creator and destroyer of the entire Universe.

    Karanasaktih Svato'nubhavat
    37. The energy of creating and destroying the whole Universe comes within the experience of such a yogi just as an ordinary soul possesses the power to create and destroy during his dreaming state.

    Tripadadyanuprananam
    38. The state of Turya God-Consciousness, that comes into experience in the beginning and at the end of the other three states (viz. Jagrat, Svapana and Susupti), should be infused and transmitted into these three states by firmly establishing one's own awareness during these intervals viz. beginning and end thereof.

    Cittasthitivat Sarira-karana-bahyesu
    39. And by developing such process, a yogi must transmit the God Consciousness not only into the three states of individuality but into the entire Universe.

    Abhilasat bahirgatih samvahyasya
    40. By the slight appearance of individual desire, one is carried far away from the state of God-Consciousness.
    We complete the last 5 sutras [सूत्र - to sew or stitch] in the Third Awakening Section.


    Tadarudhapramites tatksayaj ]iivasam Ksayah
    41. By firmly establishing one's own self in the state of Turya, all desires disappear and individuality lost into Universality.

    Bhuta-kancuki tada vimukto bhuyah patisamah parah
    42. Such a yogi is Liberated-in-Life and as his body still exists, he is called Bhuta-Kancuki, i.e. having his physical body as a mere covering just like an ordinary blanket. Hence he is supreme and one with the Universal Self.

    Naisargikah pranasambandhah
    43. After remaining in this state of Universal Transcendental God Consciousness, the functions of inhalation and exhalation automatically take place with the object, that this whole Universe of action and cognition is united in God-Consciousness.

    Nasika-antarmadhya samyamat kimatra savyapasavya sausumnesu
    44. When one contemplates on the center of Universal consciousness, what else remains there to be sought in the practice of prana, apana and susumna ?

    Bhuyah Syat pratimilanam
    45. When a Saiva-yogi is completely established in God-Consciousness, he experiences this state spontaneously within and without or both.



    Karika [verse] 44 is of interest i.e. the center of Universal consciousness.
    What has been considered in these sutras and in the Vijnana Bhairava is all about centering, that is:
    madhya मध्य - middlemost , intermediate , central , standing between two , impartial , neutral. It is in this centering, we find this gap; I call it turiya as do many. We can also call it sunya or sūnyatā, शून्यता- that is, voidness. Some call this voidness Bhuma, fullness.

    This is the offering of these sutras, to get one established in, or have a glimpse of turiya, so ones progress can continue, to stabilize this experience as Moksha or as Swami Laksmanjoo would perhaps say , 'experience God Consciousness which is without differentiated thought, full of the sakti of Barirava.'.

    I leave you with one inspiring thought from Swami Laksman joo...
    This whole universe has come into existence just to carry you to God Consciousness. It is not meant to push you down. This universe is meant for your upliftment.



    ॐ नमः िशवाय

    pranams
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 November 2007 at 10:18 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #43

    Re: Siva Sutras

    Namaste Yajvan,

    "I leave you with one inspiring thought from Swami Laksman joo..."
    "This whole universe has come into existence just to carry you to God Consciousness. It is not meant to push you down. This universe is meant for your upliftment."

    Indeed! And thank you for sharing all of the many excellent quotes!

    I noticed that you used the term "sūnyatā". How common is it to use that term in relation to forms of Shaivism in Hinduism? I know the term is commonly used in Buddhism. -- But that it is also (imho) impossible to reconcile the core teachings of two religions even if they have several teachings that are similar...

    For instance, a quote below copied from Swami Lakshmanjoo's web site concerning Buddhism:

    "The tradition of Buddhist philosophers, who are known as the Vijnanavadins, accept, that you are liberated only when your mind is completely detached from all attachments to objectivity, pleasure, pain, and sorrow. They argue that the mind must remain only as mind, pure and perfect mind, because for them the mind is actually pure, filled with light, and detached from all worldly things. It is when the mind becomes attached to worldly things, such as thoughts, pleasures, and pains, that you are carried to samsara. And when these attachments are cancelled and the mind becomes pure, then you are liberated.


    (shortened with a deletion at this point)
    "From the Shaivite point of view, these philosophical traditions remain either in apavedya-pralayakala or in savedya-pralayakala. They do not go beyond these states."
    Apavedya-pralayakala is that state of pralayakala where there is no objectivity. Savedya-pralayakala is that state of pralayakala where there is some impression of objectivity. As an example, take the state of deep sleep. When you wake up from deep sleep and then think, “I was sleeping and I didn’t know anything,” that is the state of apavedya-pralayakala. And when you wake up from the state of deep sleep and think, “I was sleeping peacefully without dreaming,” that is the state of savedya-pralayakala, because you experienced that it was a sweet sleep and so “sweetness” is the object for you in this state. Shaiva philosophy does not recognize the theories of these philosophies concerning liberation (moksha) because, in fact, the yogins of these traditions do not move above the pralayakala state and are not, therefore, situated in real moksha.

    Our Shaivism explains that jnana (knowledge) is knowing one’s own nature, which is all Being (sat), all consciousness (cit), and all bliss (ananda). Ajnana (ignorance) is ignoring this nature, and this is the cause of the samsara which carries one in the cycle of repeated births and deaths."

    Om

  4. #44

    Re: Siva Sutras

    Swami Lakshmanjoo

    Swami.JPG

  5. #45

    Re: Siva Sutras

    Namaste Yajvan,

    "I leave you with one inspiring thought from Swami Laksman joo..."
    "This whole universe has come into existence just to carry you to God Consciousness. It is not meant to push you down. This universe is meant for your upliftment."

    Indeed! And thank you for sharing all of the many excellent quotes!

    I noticed that you used the term "sūnyatā". How common is it to use that term in relation to forms of Shaivism in Hinduism? I know the term is commonly used in Buddhism. -- But that it is also (imho) impossible to reconcile the core teachings of two religions even if they have several teachings that are similar...

    For instance, a quote below copied from Swami Lakshmanjoo's web site concerning Buddhism:

    "The tradition of Buddhist philosophers, who are known as the Vijnanavadins, accept, that you are liberated only when your mind is completely detached from all attachments to objectivity, pleasure, pain, and sorrow. They argue that the mind must remain only as mind, pure and perfect mind, because for them the mind is actually pure, filled with light, and detached from all worldly things. It is when the mind becomes attached to worldly things, such as thoughts, pleasures, and pains, that you are carried to samsara. And when these attachments are cancelled and the mind becomes pure, then you are liberated.
    The philosophers from the Vaibhashika tradition hold that, liberation is attained by deleting the chain of thoughts, just as the flame of a lamp is extinguished. When a lamp is burning, we experience the existence of the flame. When, however, the flame is extinguished, it does not go anywhere. It does not go into the earth or into the ether. When the flame is extinguished, it simply disappears. And the extinguishing of the flame takes place when the oil of the lamp is exhausted. In the same way, when a yogi has crossed over all the pleasures and pains of the world, those pleasures and pains do not go anywhere, they simply disappear. This yogi, who has extinguished the flame of the chain of thoughts by exhausting the wax of the five-fold kleshas, enters into the supreme and perfect peace which is, from their point of view, liberation.
    "From the Shaivite point of view, these philosophical traditions remain either in apavedya-pralayakala or in savedya-pralayakala. They do not go beyond these states."
    Apavedya-pralayakala is that state of pralayakala where there is no objectivity. Savedya-pralayakala is that state of pralayakala where there is some impression of objectivity. As an example, take the state of deep sleep. When you wake up from deep sleep and then think, I was sleeping and I didnt know anything, that is the state of apavedya-pralayakala. And when you wake up from the state of deep sleep and think, I was sleeping peacefully without dreaming, that is the state of savedya-pralayakala, because you experienced that it was a sweet sleep and so sweetness is the object for you in this state. Shaiva philosophy does not recognize the theories of these philosophies concerning liberation (moksha) because, in fact, the yogins of these traditions do not move above the pralayakala state and are not, therefore, situated in real moksha.

    Our Shaivism explains that jnana (knowledge) is knowing ones own nature, which is all Being (sat), all consciousness (cit), and all bliss (ananda). Ajnana (ignorance) is ignoring this nature, and this is the cause of the samsara which carries one in the cycle of repeated births and deaths."

    Om

  6. #46
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    Re: Siva Sutras

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    "I leave you with one inspiring thought from Swami Laksman joo..."
    "This whole universe has come into existence just to carry you to God Consciousness. It is not meant to push you down. This universe is meant for your upliftment."

    Indeed! And thank you for sharing all of the many excellent quotes!

    I noticed that you used the term "sūnyatā". How common is it to use that term in relation to forms of Shaivism in Hinduism? I know the term is commonly used in Buddhism. -- But that it is also (imho) impossible to reconcile the core teachings of two religions even if they have several teachings that are similar...

    For instance, a quote below copied from Swami Lakshmanjoo's web site concerning Buddhism....Om
    Namaste BG,
    Yes a good point you offer... this sūnyatā, शून्यता- that is, voidness, is one of degree. For Kasmir Saivism it is found in karikas within techniques... Lets look at karika (verse) 40 of Vijnana Bhairava... it says
    yasya kasyapi varnasya purcabtau-anubhavayet |
    Sunyaya sunya-bhuto'sau sunyakarah puman-bhavet ||

    One should meditatate on the beginning and end of (the uttering of) any letter (or mantra) by becoming void due to the power of the void, one will reach the state of pure void.

    First this is a beautiful technique - the notion or the slight intent to recite, yet do not , that is purvantau. Try it and you see what the sutra is saying... you will feel different, and you will see what this is about.

    That is, one is doing dharana on this slight intent this 'void' space, where you where going to say something then you do not and there is that energy reservoir that is there.

    By doing this then, one is placing their awareness on sūnyatā. When one experiences the full fruit of this technique, this upaya, one becomes the embodiment of this void and is considered Bharirava/Siva [bhavet sunyakarah]. And what is that? it is turiya or vishvottirna avastha [ the transcendental state].

    This is how this sūnyatā is considered... I am happy to go deeper and wider as needed.

    Hope this helps. there is no doubt a difference here between these schools.



    ॐ नमः िशवाय
    Last edited by yajvan; 20 November 2007 at 07:25 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #47

    Re: Siva Sutras

    Namaste Yajvan,

    The quote below is to me a tangential teaching on the subject of "void" and or what to some is "non-being'. (and apparently one of core differences between Buddhism and Hinduism...?)

    From Chandogya upanishad: Brahman: the Cause of the Universe
    1. "In the beginning, my dear, this universe was Being (Sat) alone, one only without a second. Some say that in the beginning this was nonbeing (asat) alone, one only without a second; and from that nonbeing, being was born."

    2. Aruni said: "But how, indeed, could it be thus, my dear? How could Being be born from nonbeing? No, my dear, it was Being alone that existed in the beginning, one only without a second.

    3. "It (Being, or Brahman) thought: May I be many; may I grow forth. It created fire. That fire thought: May I be many; may I grow forth. It created water. That is why, whenever a person is hot and perspires, water is produced from fire (heat) alone.

    4. "That water thought: May I be many; may I grow forth. It created food (i.e. earth). That is why, whenever it rains anywhere, abundant food is produced. From water alone is edible food produced.

  8. #48
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    Re: Siva Sutras

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,
    The quote below is to me a tangential teaching on the subject of "void" and or what to some is "non-being'. (and apparently one of core differences between Buddhism and Hinduism...?)

    From Chandogya upanishad: — Brahman: the Cause of the Universe
    1. "In the beginning, my dear, this universe was Being (Sat) alone, one only without a second. Some say that in the beginning this was non—being (asat) alone, one only without a second; and from that non—being, being was born."

    2. Aruni said: "But how, indeed, could it be thus, my dear? How could Being be born from non—being? No, my dear, it was Being alone that existed in the beginning, one only without a second.

    3. "It (Being, or Brahman) thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created fire. That fire thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created water. That is why, whenever a person is hot and perspires, water is produced from fire (heat) alone.

    4. "That water thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created food (i.e. earth). That is why, whenever it rains anywhere, abundant food is produced. From water alone is edible food produced.
    Namaste BG
    A most excellent choice to explain this... How can all this come from nothing? some say void. This Being is Fullness. Yet there are differernt levels one experiences of this Being. Perhaps the experience of this Being for Buddhism is that of voidness... I can appreciate how one may think this.

    As it was explained in the Upanishads and taught to me, as one grows in this , the experience changes and develops over time. It is not just one experience. As one becomes established in the SELF, Brahman, one has achieved what needs to be done. Yet over time this Silence, this turiya is then experinced on the level of the senses and all things then are the expression of this Silence, of Brahman and experienced as such.

    We say this often on HDF, that all this is indeed Brahman. Yet these are noble words spoken with honesty, but without the actual experince [ at least for me it is fleeting, yet blessed with a glimpse in seconds at a time].

    It the beginning of this Moksa there is the perfect silence of SELF, that is experinced by the sadhu within him-her SELF. Many call it Self-referral.
    'I' remain established in this Aham, in this silence. Yet over time, this silence is then experienced outside of me, in everything I see, touch, taste, smell... One begins to rejoice in His/Her Creation of Silence.

    Yet at first the division of SELF and non-SELF has to be experienced and understood personally, empirically.


    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your ideas.


    Just as the flowing rivers disappear in the sea, losing their names and forms, so also a seer from the name and form goes to the Divine Person [ divyam Purusha] who is greater then the great. Mundakopanishad.


    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 21 November 2007 at 08:31 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #49

    Re: Siva Sutras

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Thank you also for sharing your thoughts and ideas! And a great many fine submissions and studies to say the least!

    I have mentioned Buddhism a few times in this this string; here is what I feel to be an excellent insight from a Buddhist teacher about a possible problem with interpretations related to the word "void":

    Yutang Lin
    "Teaching of "Non-form" indicates non-attachment to form.
    Misinterpreted, it is adopted as holding to absence of form.
    Abiding in no forms at all, one falls into the abyss of void.
    Only in no grasping to form or non-form lies true liberation"



  10. #50
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    Smile Re: Siva Sutras

    Quote Originally Posted by Yajvan

    That is one is not only aware of the in-breath and the out-breath, but of the junction of the two, of that sandhya, where it is neither one nor the other.
    And, of course, at the saMdhyA of pUraka and recaka there is always kumbhaka


    notes on nothing :

    shUnya (or shunya) is empty, void, hollow, barren, desolate, deserted, destitute, distracted, vacant, absent, missing, free, with no certain object or aim, possessing nothing, wholly destitute, wholly alone or solitary, having no friends or companions, wanting, lacking, non-existent, vain, idle, unreal, nonsensical, ineffectual, insensible, bare, naked, guileless, innocent, or indifferent.

    shUnya is a void or vacuum, vacuity, nonentity, or absolute non-existence, nought, zero, a cipher, or space, svarga or brahma, and shUnyA is a barren woman.

    shUnyatA is emptiness, loneliness, desolateness, absence of mind, absence or want, distraction, vacancy, nothingness, non-existence, non-reality, or mAyA.

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