In your seva...
Namaskar,
Nice to know that I am also an avatar of vishnu just like the person who blew the **** out of himself and the twenty others by strapping explosive to themselves.
Come on, if we are really avatars of the Lord would we doing the things we are doing in this world today? I don't think we are avatars at all. We are some sort of lower amsa or something.
satay
New Member
Namaste,Originally Posted by satay
How could a "lower amsa" do such a thing for that matter? If somebody had even a microscopic amsa of God, he would not do such a thing. If this is your world view, I think Dvaita Philosophy will appeal to you. In Advaita, there is no good or evil. There is only vidyA and avidyA, which is vidyAvidya in Brahman. If one is reallly looking for a proper realistic explanation regarding the "blowing up of oneself" sort of thing, they cannot find it in Advaita. Advaita is not about explaining the miseries of life, but about mitigating it. Only Dvaita will be able to explain that. But note that there can be other problems with Dvaita, like I might ask why God allowed the so called evil etc.
He is the one on whom our hope depends. For if Hanuman survives, all we though dead are yet alive. But if his precious life be lost though living still we are but dead: He is our hope and sure relief -Jambavan (Yuddha Kanda. 74). Impossibility=Hanuman
Member
Unlike the avatars of Maha Vishnu, Lord Shiva's incarnations are instantaneous, meaning that he takes a human form in connection with one or more incidents of his devotees, sports his lIlA and then simply vanishes, revealing his real nature! Nevertheless, in many cases, these were real incarnations of Shiva in human form that lasted for days if not for a whole lifetime.
Lord Shiva thus sported his lIlA with 64 of his devotees that have been compiled in to a Purana in Tamil by Paranjyoti Munivar, who has named it ThiruviLaiyAdal PuraNam (aka hAlAsya MahAtmiyam). Shiva has done wonderful lIlAs that include helping Manickavachagar (who composed Tiruvachagam) who was a minister in King Pandyan's cabinet, by changing foxes temporarily into horses and then later flooding Madurai with the Vaigai river. When the King in a bid to save the city ordered one member from every family to strengthen the shores of the river, an old woman who had her living by selling sweet pudding had none to work for her, she prayed to Shiva, who appeared as a wayward labourer, defied the orders of the King's officials, got a whipped by them but the blow fell on every being in the Universe including the King! Thus Shiva revealed himself to the King and spoke to him of the greateness of his erstwhile minister and now saint Manickavachagar.
And then Shiva stopped the marriage of Sundaramurthy Nayanar by appearing as an old man and demanding that there was a score to settle with him before Sundarar could marry. The case was reported to the court of assembly of wise men at Tiruvennai Nallur who inquired it. Shiva won the case and 'enslaved' Sundarar, preventing his marriage, and took him to the Vennai Nallur Shiva temple. There he revealed himself and told Sundarar that his action was due to a prayer by Sundarar in his earlier birth. Sundarar was aghast that he had scolded the Lord using words such as Pithan (madman). Shiva encouraged him to sing a song using the very word Pitha as the first word. The song Pitha, pirai sUdi (madman who wears the moon) is a very famous hymn in Tevaram.
The famouse Tamil classical movie 'Tiruvilaiyadal' directed by AP Nagarajan and acted by Shivaji Ganesan as Lord Shiva and his incarnations ran to packed houses for nearly a year in Tamilnadu!
These wonderful sports of Shiva can be read at:
http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/nayanar.pdf
http://www.shaivam.org/adiyaar.html
Shiva's instaneous incarnations that contine to this day, are the very embodiments of his boundless grace for his devotees.
etad vai tat
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste satay,
a reasonable point... yet this notion is one of conscious and unconscious awareness of who one is. This does not purport to suggest we are avatara in the sense that we are cognisant of this, and have the mission at hand e.g. Ram, Krsna, etc.
Yet, when one is fully awake , the native is no doubt an ambassador of the Divine. That is the pickle - we are Divine yet we do not remember it; our lineage is Divne and we have forgotten this.
As I see it, IMHO, it's like a garden of flowers. If not taken care of they can grow out of control and become weeds, detrimental to the garden. Like that, humans require nourishment and and direction; Nourishment of pure consciousness and direction of purpose as to who they are.
Just like the garden each flower reaches for the sun for light and heat. We need to do the same, in our case it is savitor, suriya. And if one has issue with Savitor, there are an additional 108 names one can choose from, as the Sun is the Atmakaraka of us all.
108 Names Called out in the Mahabrahata. [ my favorites are highighted ]
Dhaumya said: Surya, Bhaga, Twastri, Pusha, Arka, Savitri, Ravi, Gabhastimat, Aja, Kala, Mrityu, Dhatri, Prabhakar, Prithibi, Apa, Teja, Kha, Vayu, the sole stay, Soma, Vrihaspati, Sukra, Budha, Angaraka, Indra, Vivaswat, Diptanshu, Suchi, Sauri, Sanaichara, Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Skanda, Vaisravana, Yama, Vaidyutagni, Jatharagni, Aindhna, Tejasam, Pati, Dharmadwaja, Veda-karttri, Vedanga, Vedavahana, Krita, Treta, Dwapara, Kali, Full of every impurity, Kala, Kastha, Muhurtta, Kshapa, Yama, and Kshana, Samvatsara-kara, Aswattha, Kalachakra, Bibhavasu, Purusha, Saswata, Vyaktavyakta, Sanatana, Kaladhyaksha, Praja-dhyaksha, Viswakarma, Tamounda, Varuna, Sagara, Ansu, Jimuta, Jivana, Arihan, Bhutasraya, Bhutapati, Srastri, Samvartaka, Vanhi, Sarvadi, Alolupa, Ananta, Bhanu, Kamada, Sarvatomukha, Jaya, Visala, Varada, Manas, Suparna, Bhutadi, Sighraga, Prandharana, Dhanwantari, Dhumaketu, Adideva, Aditisuta, Dwadasatman, Arvindaksha, Pitri, Matri, Pitamaha, Swarga-dwara, Prajadwara, Mokshadwara, Tripistapa, Dehakarti, Prasantatman, Viswatman, Viswatomukha, Characharatman, Sukhsmatman, the merciful Maitreya.
just a thought.
pranams,
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
New Member
I have a DVD of this movie. The most funny incident is the one involving hemanAtha bhAgavatar. The film is very good and really great acting by Shivaji.
He is the one on whom our hope depends. For if Hanuman survives, all we though dead are yet alive. But if his precious life be lost though living still we are but dead: He is our hope and sure relief -Jambavan (Yuddha Kanda. 74). Impossibility=Hanuman
In your seva...
Perhaps I am not at the stage to accept that "I" am God. I don't see how I can be God or his avatar. I don't even control an inch of anything in this universe except perhaps using my will that too haphazardly and without any surety and decisiveness.
If this means that I am dvaitin...I am okay with that. I think that we may be (part of) divine but we are not the whole divine. it is too difficult to comprehend that "I" am the controller of the universe when clearly I am controller of no-thing!
satay
Member
Namaste Saidevoji,
As far as I can follow from shruti all manifestations are of Rudra-Shiva alone, including Vishnu, who is not another at all. One who is sthanu is Shiva and who has movement is Vishnu. But the Sthanu is alone moving and the movement leads to the Sthanu.
For a true devotee of Shiva, everything is Shiva-Parvati. Yet such a devotee, when graced with sweet magic -- through any form, whether as a mad man (as in Sundara's case) or as a labourer (for Amma), will know the grace as Shiva only.
You are correct that the appearances are instantateous. But such appearances are also written down in case of Vishnu bhakas in Bhakta Mala (the name may be wrong but it is equivalent of Periapuranam).
Om
That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.
Member
Seven Types of Avatars
From a talk given by Ghandikota V. Subba Rao to the First Overseas Convention of Chairpersons of Shri Sathya Sai Centres on 23rd November, 1998, Prashaanthi Nilayam. (http://www.eaisai.com/baba/docs/avatar.html)
1. amsha avatAra, the plenary incarnation, like Vaamana, the young boy who humbled the pride of emperor Bali.
2. kalA avatAra, which may be called the plenipotentiaries, with certain functional powers. The kalA avatAra are like Dhanvanthari, for instance, who propagated the life saving specialised Science of Aayurvedha.
3. Avesha avatAra, who are the revolutionary avatars; they appear at one time, one place with one purpose, like Parashuraama and Narasimha (half man, half lion).
4. jnAna avatAra, that carry the secret of liberation - the jnAna, the wisdom of Supreme Reality. jnAna avatAra are like the great Buddha, the great sage Kapila and the great Shankara.
5. lIlA avatAra. Sri Krishna was the lIlA avatAra. lIlA is the play and the pastime of Krishna from His young age till He left this earth nearly 5300 years ago; an extraordinary saga of great power, of majesty, of beauty, of wisdom and of knowledge; He was the uncrowned emperor of India. He was the Suuthradhaari, the great puppeteer. He was a Jagath-guru, the Universal Preceptor.
6. mAyAvatAra, like Sri Rama, who concealed His divinity. He behaved, for all practical purposes, as a human personality with all the attendant problems. He is called Maryaadha Purusha - ideal man, ideal son, ideal friend, ideal ruler etc.
7. vibhUti avatAra of Bhagavaan Sathya Sai Baba. The glory of His mahimas, miracles from birth till now, day in and day out, 365 days in a year, 73 years of extraordinary expression of divine powers. The world 'miracle' has become a hackneyed expression, in respect of Baba.
Sixteen Divine Attracting Powers
Ghandikota V. Subba Rao, Prashaanthi Nilayam, 1 January, 2000
http://www.eaisai.com/baba/docs/sixteen.html
When DIVINITY descends in human form, DHAIVAM MAANUSHA RUUPENA, it is said, IT manifests sixteen aspects of selfless, loving, universal attractive features or powers. The following is an exposition of these sixteen "attracting" aspects of the Divine Advent...
01. KAAMA AAKARSHANA or desire fulfilling power.
02. BUDDHYAAKARSHANA - the power to activate, stimulate and fulfil our intellectual capacities.
03. AHAMKAARA-AAKARSHANA transformation of our Ego sense.
04. SHABDHA AAKARSHANA, the power of sound, by way of conversation, lecture and song.
05. SPARSHA AAKARSHANA - the power of divine touch; it is healing touch.
06. RUUPAAKARSHANA - attraction of the divine form.
07. RASAAKARSHANA - sweetness personified.
08. CHITTHAAKARSHANA. Chittha is the store-house of our past and present memories and unfulfilled residual desires and impressions from our previous lives, called Vaasanas which haunt us in the present and will continue to affect our future also.
09. GANDHAAKARSHANA - the power of personal divine fragrance.
10. DHAIRYA-AKARSHANA - the power of overwhelming courage and self-confidence.
11. SMRITHYAAKARSHANA. Smrithi means powerful memory power.
12. NAAMAA KARSHANA, the power of the Sacred name.
13. BEEJAAKARSHANA SHAKTHI. Divinity exercises elemental or seed force and incorporates it in all beings. The Geetha says, "Beejam Maam Sarva Bhuuthaanaam.": Know Me to be the eternal seed power, the cause of germination of all Beings. All beings are born from the seed of Brahman, the Supreme Divinity. He is indeed the seed force of all Manthras or holy, thought-articulations in terms of seed syllables and words. These represent the basic energies of various deities presiding over the forces of Nature and Cosmos as a whole. These basic sound forces and seed Manthras or primal utterances of Divinity calling forth various manifestations of power. These are the seeds of supreme knowledge of reality (Brahma Vidhyaa), seeds of conscious speech (Vaak Beeja), seeds of illusory energy (Shakthi Beeja), seed of existence (Lakshmi Beeja), seed of desire (Kaama Beeja) and above all the seed of time and destruction (Kaalee Beeja). The Avatar activates these seed forces and validates all Manthras and scriptures.
14. AATHMASAKARSHANA; Divinity attracts our inner Being, Antharaathma. It is called soul-power attraction; drawing the sense oriented Self towards the experience of the bliss of divinity.
15. AMRITHAAKARSHANA. Amritha is the elixir of life in divinity. Unbounded Love and immortality are the signs of Divine life. The individual self prays to the Supreme Divinity to bestow on a Life of LOVE, LIGHT and IMMORTALITY.
16. SARVAAKARSHANA SHAKTHI, the totality of the above fifteen attractive powers.
Ghandikota V. Subba Rao illustrates how his guru Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba has all these powers. Thus any guru from Adi Sankara to the current Shankaracharyas and the gurus of other institutions who has these powers as felt and experienced by his staunch devotees is an avatar of Lord Shiva. It is a question of the devotees' experiences that makes an avatar of a guru rather than the extent to which he displays it to the outside world and the world accepts it.
New Member
Virtually speaking no one can claim so either. The concept of "I am God" is hypothetical. Even when a person attains jnAna how will he say that he is God - to whom will he say that? The very presence of such an "I" is not the sign of a jnAni.
No man will ever be able to control the universe. That will create a conflict of interest between God and man. The only incarnation who proved that he is God was Krishna - he did so by showing that he was existance itself! There are no other known instances except hearsays.
Being part of God is also a problem because God has no parts. Perhaps you meant to say you had a nature similar to God without his full potency?
He is the one on whom our hope depends. For if Hanuman survives, all we though dead are yet alive. But if his precious life be lost though living still we are but dead: He is our hope and sure relief -Jambavan (Yuddha Kanda. 74). Impossibility=Hanuman
etad vai tat
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste satay,
what you write and experience is fine... It is just a matter of time.
Control is one thing. IMHO basing ones core nature on this will give you a headache. The intersecting point of the Divine and you is consciousness. This as I have been taught is the fundamental principle.
The Chandogya Upanishad [3.17.6] says: Indestructible (akshitamasi) you are, Unchangable (achyutamasi) you are, You are the subtle essence of Prana (pranasamshitamasi).
So here is the pickle - great words without the personal experience! How then to get this experience? By ones sadhana, meditation.
My dear friend satay, it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when this occurs.
It would be a completely different story if the rishi's were saying for this Brahma Sakshtkara ( Self Realization) or turiyatit chetana (sustained turya) to unfold, one must rope the moon, one must do 3 million push-ups, one must swim the ocean. They are not. They are saying be your SELF, that is all. And how does one be oneself? Be without thre 3 gunas.
And how to do that? Meditate and transcend naturally, that is it. It is a matter of 'sticking to the knitting' as they say, day in and day out.
Your SELF=Brahma Sakshtkara=Divine=Kahm=Brahman=Bhuma or Fullness= One needn't accomplish anything more, all has been done, when this Infinite experience becomes ones dailiy Being.
Om Namo bhagavate vasudevaya
pranams,
Last edited by yajvan; 03 October 2007 at 06:24 PM.
यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
because you are identical with śiva
_
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