Conversion to Shaivism

[Haridas]

Namaste.
I've decided to follow Shaivism for a variety of reasons. However, I need guidance. Please answer these questions, and may Lord Shiva bless you.

1) Does Shiva incarnate like Vishnu?
2) Are Vishnu and Brahma aspects of Shiva?
3) Where and what is the Supreme Abode of Lord Shiva, that His devotees will obtain after moksha (basically, the equivalent of the Vaishnava's Vaikuntha)?
4) What are the main Scriptures of Shaivism, and do Shaivas accept the Bhagavad Gita, the Bhagavata Purana, and the Vishnu Purana?
5) How do we worship Shiva? Aside from puja to a linga and the Sacred Mantra ("Om Namah Shivaya"), how does one go about worshipping Him?
6) What are the basic philosophical beliefs of Shaivism? Do Shaivas believe that Shiva actually exists or do they believe that the "true" Shiva is ourselves? Do Shaivas believe that Shiva and the soul and matter are 3 seperate entities, or that they are all part of Brahman? etc.

Thank you again, and may Shiva bless you.
Om Namah Shivaya.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste Haridas: I adopted Saivism about 30 years ago.. still I am no expert.
As to the questions you posed, well... you'll get a variety of answers as within Shaiva there are different groups and philosophies. Keep watching this thread and you'll see what I mean. After that, you'll have to decide for yourself which of the many make the most sense. Here are my answers, briefly, from the point of view of monistic Saiva Siddhanta.
1) no
2) not aspects, but same as, different names
3) in the Sivaloka, soul merges,
4) Vedas, Agamas, and others depending on variety of Saivism (read the Siva sutra thread on here) plus works of various Saiva gurus
5) surrendering your ego to Him, through puja, japa, meditation, prayers
6) All and in all - pati pasu pasam all merge in monistic branches, in dualistic branches, all continue separately
Aum Namasivaya
BTW, what are you converting from? Don't answer this if you don't want to.

[Haridas]

Namaste.
Thank you for your answers. As to the different groups of Shaivas, all I'm sure have the same basic principles. That's what I'm looking for. Thank you again for your answers and may Shiva bless you.

BTW, what are you converting from? Don't answer this if you don't want to.

Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

[Arjuna]

Namaste,

To begin with, there is no "one Shaivism", but several schools whith somewhat different views and practices. Certain ideas are common to all shaivas, while another are peculiar to specific traditions.

1) Does Shiva incarnate like Vishnu?

Shiva does not "incarnate". But the whole world is His manifestation, and His power of mercy (anugraha) is revealed in Sadguru and Agama. Again, each jIva is Shiva by its nature and thus can be termed as an "avatAra".

[/QUOTE]2) Are Vishnu and Brahma aspects of Shiva?[/QUOTE]

Shiva as the Godhead has 5 powers or functions:
1. Sadyojata = Brahma = Srishti-shakti
2. Vamadeva = Vishnu = Sthiti-shakti
3. Aghora = Rudra = Samhara-shakti
4. Tatpurusha = Maheshvara = Tirobhava-shakti
5. Ishana = Sadashiva = Augraha-shakti
(Names may have different meanings in different contexts, but this is the basic scheme.)

[/QUOTE]3) Where and what is the Supreme Abode of Lord Shiva, that His devotees will obtain after moksha (basically, the equivalent of the Vaishnava's Vaikuntha)?[/QUOTE]

Shiva is not limited to any loka or dhAma. He is transcendent & immanent at the same time.
Realising Shiva means recognition of one's own true nature as Atman.
Realised being (Siddha or Yogini) is ever free, whether in this world, in any other or in nishkala-shUnya, since he/she is Shiva by his/her very nature.

[/QUOTE]4) What are the main Scriptures of Shaivism, and do Shaivas accept the Bhagavad Gita, the Bhagavata Purana, and the Vishnu Purana?[/QUOTE]

Main Scriptures of all Agamic schools of Shaivism (that means all except Pashupatas) are Shaiva-Agamas. All accept 28 Siddhanta-Agamas, while Tantric Shaiva Tradition adds Bhairava-Agamas (considered to be 64 in number) as the supreme revelation. Apart from Agamas, there are few other essential sources considered to be Shruti, such as Shiva-sutra.

Pashupata is a Vedic school having Pashupata-sutra as its main Scripture (in addition to Vedic texts).

Agamic Shaivism is not based upon paurANika texts, though several Mahapuranas are mostly Shaiva (first of all, Shiva/Vayu-purana). Puranas are secondary authority meant for people of limited understanding and cannot be regarded as primary souce of doctrine and practice.

Some Shaiva traditions do accept Brahma-sutra (and there are several schools of Shaiva Vedanta) and Bhagavadgita. However these texts aren't of any great importance. Of course Vaishnava upapurAnas like Bhagavatam (it is not the same as Bhagavata as Mahapurana, which is lost) have no significance for any Shaiva tradition (as, for example, Chandi- or Kalika-puranas aren't authorative for Vaishnavas).

[/QUOTE]5) How do we worship Shiva? Aside from puja to a linga and the Sacred Mantra ("Om Namah Shivaya"), how does one go about worshipping Him?[/QUOTE]

This depends upon particular school, but in any case there is a kind of Yoga (in a sense of spiritual practice and not gymnastics).

Usually there are four aspects of practice: charyA (rules of conduct), kriyA (rituals), yoga (inner practices) and jnAna (knowledge).

[/QUOTE]6) What are the basic philosophical beliefs of Shaivism? Do Shaivas believe that Shiva actually exists or do they believe that the "true" Shiva is ourselves? Do Shaivas believe that Shiva and the soul and matter are 3 seperate entities, or that they are all part of Brahman? etc.[/QUOTE]

Views of different schools differ (as in a case of Vaishnavas too).

Monistic Shaivism (that is, Tantric one, based on Bhairava-Agamas and represented mostly in form of "Kashmir Shaivism") sees Shiva as the Absolute (Anuttara), Supreme Lord (Maheshvara) and Consciousness (Parasamvit). He as Absolute Consciousness is the only Reality. Matter and soul do exist and are "real" since their nature is Consciousness alone. All manifestation is play of Shiva's free will (svAtantrya-shakti) and expression of His inherent bliss. This "will", "bliss" or "vibration" (spanda) is Shakti which is identical with Shiva.

Namah Shivaya

[Agnideva]

Namaste Haridas,

You may wish to read from Himalayan Academy and subscribe to their daily email course. It will explain many of the basics of Shaivism. I would especially recommend Dancing with Siva for the basics.

1) Does Shiva incarnate like Vishnu?

From the Agamic Shaivism perspective, there is no teaching about incarnation (avatar), but many forms of Shiva that appear in legends, stories, Puranas, etc. are recognized and not altogether rejected.

You may wish to read the recent thread: Incarnation of Shiva.

2) Are Vishnu and Brahma aspects of Shiva?

Shaivism in general teaches that Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra are all parts of Shiva. The so-called Trimurti exists only in a manner of speaking. In truth, there is only Shiva, who is known as Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Maheshvara and Sadashiva in various capacities.

3) Where and what is the Supreme Abode of Lord Shiva, that His devotees will obtain after moksha (basically, the equivalent of the Vaishnava's Vaikuntha)?

Shivaloka, as EM mentioned. In Shaivism, Shivaloka is the highest of the seven worlds which may also be called Brahmaloka or Satyaloka. Beyond that, there is no loka as such, but oneness with Shiva. Shaiva monists believe in complete merger (like a drop of water mixing with the ocean), dualists believe in a merger with difference (like salt mixing with water).

4) What are the main Scriptures of Shaivism, and do Shaivas accept the Bhagavad Gita, the Bhagavata Purana, and the Vishnu Purana?

The primary scriptures of Shaivism are the Vedas and the 92 Shaiva Agamas. Among the Shaiva Agamas there are two types: 28 Siddhanta Agamas and 64 Bhairava Agamas. The secondary scriptures include the Shaiva Puranas, Itihasas, writings of Shaiva saints and masters, etc. In general, the texts mentioned above are not commented upon or used by Shaivites, as they are Vaishnava in character. The Bhagavad-Gita has been commented upon by some prominent Shaiva Gurus, particularly in Kashmir Shaivism. In the Shaivite interpretation, the Bhagavad-Gita is used to explain the principles of yoga, and the entire text is taken to be allegorical. In other words, the Bhagavad-Gita is not used as a bhakti text in Shaivism.

5) How do we worship Shiva? Aside from puja to a linga and the Sacred Mantra ("Om Namah Shivaya"), how does one go about worshipping Him?

Generally, worship of Shiva is similar to Vaishnava worship. Shaivites obviously worship Shiva as supreme and place Shiva icon in the center. Most important icon is the Shiva Linga, but there are many others like Nataraja, Ardhanarishvara, etc. Shaivites also worship Shakti as non-different from Shiva, Lord Ganesha and Lord Kartikeya (Murugan). Shaivism also places a lot of importance in mantra meditation and raja yoga even for beginners.

6) What are the basic philosophical beliefs of Shaivism? Do Shaivas believe that Shiva actually exists or do they believe that the "true" Shiva is ourselves? Do Shaivas believe that Shiva and the soul and matter are 3 seperate entities, or that they are all part of Brahman? etc.

It depends on which school you are following. Within Shaivism, there are dualistic, monist-dualistic and pure monistic schools of thought. Where is the "true" Shiva? Everywhere, within and without. Shiva is within us, beside us and apart from us all at the same time.

Aum Namah Shivaya,
A.

[Agnideva]

Namaste Haridas,

Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

You need not answer this question either, but may I ask why you've decided to leave behind Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

Aum Namah Shivaya,
A.

[Arjuna]

Shaiva monists believe in complete merger (like a drop of water mixing with the ocean)

Namaste Agnideva,

I would like to point out that this analogy may be misleading. Paradvaita does not reject bheda but sees it as existing in Consciousness alone. Shaivism doesn't subscribe to the common Advaita-vedanta view of "kevala" Advaita. Somewhere Acharya Abhinavagupta says that Paradvaita neither establishes nor rejects bheda. Shaiva Siddhas do not merge in void but realise their true nature as Consciousness. Due to this they are perfect jIvanmuktas, who perceive this world as manifestation of Shiva's bliss. But if we take literally a model of "complete merging", we should assume that only videha-mukti is possible – which certainly is not the case.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Agnideva,

I would like to point out that this analogy may be misleading. Paradvaita does not reject bheda but sees it as existing in Consciousness alone. Shaivism doesn't subscribe to the common Advaita-vedanta view of "kevala" Advaita. Somewhere Acharya Abhinavagupta says that Paradvaita neither establishes nor rejects bheda. Shaiva Siddhas do not merge in void but realise their true nature as Consciousness. Due to this they are perfect jIvanmuktas, who perceive this world as manifestation of Shiva's bliss. But if we take literally a model of "complete merging", we should assume that only videha-mukti is possible – which certainly is not the case.

Namaste Arjuna & AD.
Can I make a recommendation? These conversations are most excellent , and you folks are knowledgeable.

Can you assist others with the terms that you use? A Key term that will unravel this post is bheda. Without knowing this, one is at a disadvantage of comprehending the conversation.

For me, bheda is that of differences. Key to Dvaita, the panch-bheda or 5 differences? [ I think this is the list below - please correct any mis-representations]

• Between God and jiva
• Between jiva and jiva
• Between God and matter
• Between jiva's and matter
• Between matter and matter

just a friendly suggestion to add more value for the casual reader.
pranams,

[Haridas]

Namaste all.
Thank you for answering my questions and guiding me to various websites. I am beginning to understand the beauty of Shaivism.

However, I must ask:
The form of Lord Shiva that we see in pictures (the meditating blue ascetic), is that is "Personal" or "Supreme" Form with all of His attributes (such as Vishnu's Narayana form), and then all else emanates from Him (such as Vaishnavas' beliefs on Vishnu's breathing in and out and created universes)?

Also

When we merge with Shiva, are we then God? As in, do we lose our identities and from then on experience things as Shiva, and we are literally Him?

And finally

Is everything that is made of physical matter an illusion?
Thanks again for answering, and may Shiva bless you.

Namaste Haridas,

You need not answer this question either, but may I ask why you've decided to leave behind Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

Namaste
I decided to leave Gaudiya Vaishnavism because its main scripture, the Bhagavata Purana, contradicted the Vedas and Upanishads on some points, and even lowered the level of Lord Shiva to that of an easily subdued man (one story states that Shiva was entranced by Mohini and wanted to cheat on Goddess Parvati with her). This is also why I left Vaishnavism in general.

[Eastern Mind]

Haridas : The blue-throated Siva is Dakshinamurthi, the ultimate meditator, I suppose. He is another form of Siva, or better yet, another way that Siva manifests. There is lots of symbology related to Dakshinamurthi, of which I know quite little, but others will help you. It's definitely more common in North India.
As others have pondered, it is interesting to be converting within Hinduism, or at least seeking out. Maybe I'll start a new thread. For sure, if you look for them, you will find contradictory scripture in every sect. That used to bother me. I once asked a swami that very question. Right now I can't remember the point that I had found contradictory, but he just laughed and said, "It's all just Siva's dance." I took it to mean that we shouldn't sweat the small things like small contradictions, and stay focussed on the big picture, which is the realisation of the Self God within. Aum Namsivaya