Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

  1. #21
    Join Date
    March 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    124
    Rep Power
    43

    Re: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

    Dear sanjaya,

    Very good analysis, I appreciate it.

    I myself feel the evangelicals are the worst kind of fundamentalists around. At least the Wahabees of Saudi Arabia are open about their proclivities, we know exactly where they stand.

    What I find really diabolical is the nexus between the evangelicals and the Jewish right-wing. Each views the other with utter contempt, but still uses each other for their own nefarious ends. The right-wing Jews want to use the evangelicals for political advantage and the evangelicals support the right-wing Jewish politics to bring about Armageddon where the Jews they are supporting are supposed to be left behind to suffer eternal damnation .

    All said and done, I am somewhat encouraged by the statistics 2/3rds of the young evangelicals don't subscribe to the the primary motivation for proselytizing, namely saving souls.


    ....Don't get me wrong, I hope that you are right and that I am not. But I think the West will continue to send missionaries.
    Yes, I agree, the 2/3rd statistics is about youngsters under 35. The older people among whom the statistic is perhaps the exact opposite will continue to try and harvest souls like the previous pope wanted to do. But I myself think that effective response to these purveyors, in a pluralistic liberal democracy that India is, is to reform Hinduism and move it towards social equality. Even the lowest of the low among Hindus still want to worship in temples and the upper castes are foolishly opposing. The same people then go out and complain about conversions.

    Thank you my friend, the very best to you....

  2. #22
    Join Date
    March 2010
    Location
    A bone-littered nest in the bottom of a pit deep in the jungles of Amesbury, Massachusetts.
    Posts
    216
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

    I think if Hinduism can be reformed so that missionaries have no upper hand in their professed treatment of dalits for example, then they'll have less to prey on and we won't need such extreme measures as barring christians from entering the country. Personally, I don't think thats the answer at all.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    November 2009
    Age
    39
    Posts
    839
    Rep Power
    1029

    Re: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Nara View Post
    I myself feel the evangelicals are the worst kind of fundamentalists around. At least the Wahabees of Saudi Arabia are open about their proclivities, we know exactly where they stand.
    I tend to agree. Wahabis can be fought off, if only in a limited sense, with guns and economics. But how do you fight an idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nara View Post
    What I find really diabolical is the nexus between the evangelicals and the Jewish right-wing. Each views the other with utter contempt, but still uses each other for their own nefarious ends. The right-wing Jews want to use the evangelicals for political advantage and the evangelicals support the right-wing Jewish politics to bring about Armageddon where the Jews they are supporting are supposed to be left behind to suffer eternal damnation .
    I am so pleased to not be the only one who sees this! Yes, you are absolutely right! The interplay between the Jewish right wing and the evangelicals is almost sickening. Most Jews, who are liberal, are equally disgusted by this behavior and are averse to evangelical Christians. The evangelicals seem to think that Judaism is "Christianity minus Jesus," but fail to recognize that Jesus' own religious faith (and possibly Jesus himself) rejects almost the whole of Christian doctrine. I understand all of the doctrine. But at a deeper level, I'll never understand why evangelicals are obsessed with Jews.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nara View Post
    Yes, I agree, the 2/3rd statistics is about youngsters under 35. The older people among whom the statistic is perhaps the exact opposite will continue to try and harvest souls like the previous pope wanted to do. But I myself think that effective response to these purveyors, in a pluralistic liberal democracy that India is, is to reform Hinduism and move it towards social equality. Even the lowest of the low among Hindus still want to worship in temples and the upper castes are foolishly opposing. The same people then go out and complain about conversions.
    Well, in this sense we Hindus aren't the brightest bunch. We're the source of many of our own problems.

    Anyway, hope to hear from you more often!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvati View Post
    I think if Hinduism can be reformed so that missionaries have no upper hand in their professed treatment of dalits for example, then they'll have less to prey on and we won't need such extreme measures as barring christians from entering the country. Personally, I don't think thats the answer at all.
    Perhaps I am just being paranoid after all. You're more generous than me, my friend.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~

    namasté Explorer


    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Great observation, I never noticed this before:

    If Jesus' example is one of resurrection and overcoming death, why would anyone keep an image of him as he's dying on the cross - as the main symbol of the religion ?
    For many, the profound truth of overcoming death is perhaps difficult to comprehend. Yet death is very straight forward and therefore a person on a cross is easy to see.

    It also suggests (to me) that Jesus' message is lost and not understood, or not taught robustly. Yet this occurs often when long periods of time take over.


    praām
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #25
    Join Date
    March 2010
    Location
    A bone-littered nest in the bottom of a pit deep in the jungles of Amesbury, Massachusetts.
    Posts
    216
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

    I think the emphasis on Christ dying for humanity's sins is one of the problems with the religion. It puts too much focus on an aspect of the faith that can't really be applied in a practical way aside from thanking him, and is far too easily and commonly used as a source of guilt. Christians need to put more emphasis depictions and recitations of the sermon on the mount, and be more focused on how he lived and taught, not how and why he died.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    November 2009
    Age
    39
    Posts
    839
    Rep Power
    1029

    Re: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvati View Post
    I think the emphasis on Christ dying for humanity's sins is one of the problems with the religion. It puts too much focus on an aspect of the faith that can't really be applied in a practical way aside from thanking him, and is far too easily and commonly used as a source of guilt. Christians need to put more emphasis depictions and recitations of the sermon on the mount, and be more focused on how he lived and taught, not how and why he died.
    Agreed completely. Evangelicals seem to believe strongly that the most important point of their faith is "the person and work of Christ." By the work of Christ, they mean his atoning death. Thus the death of Christ and the doctrine of substitutionary atonement play a central role. But what does that mean? When you dig deep enough, it's all a bunch of empty theologizing about how your sins have been taken away when you believe in this peculiar doctrine. Christians still sin, so this has no correspondance to reality.

    In the gospels, Jesus taught many good principles which, if obeyed, would really make the world a much better place. But evangelicals brush all this aside and concern themselves only with his death and resurrection. I guess it's much easier to bloviate on sola fide and make excuses about why Jesus was speaking figuatively when he said to give all of your money away to the poor. But of course, the hell doctrine is literal.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    November 2007
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Age
    38
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Christianity - Another Viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjaya View Post
    Agreed completely. Evangelicals seem to believe strongly that the most important point of their faith is "the person and work of Christ." By the work of Christ, they mean his atoning death. Thus the death of Christ and the doctrine of substitutionary atonement play a central role. But what does that mean? When you dig deep enough, it's all a bunch of empty theologizing about how your sins have been taken away when you believe in this peculiar doctrine. Christians still sin, so this has no correspondance to reality.
    Yes, Christians still sin. And they admit that. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8). The whole point about Christianity is that they believe that Jesus' death allowed their sins to be forgiven. When a person accepts Jesus as their personal saviour (in Protestant theology) or is baptised (Catholic and Orthodox theology), their sins are forgiven. Without this, they would still be judged for those sins. Once a person has accepted Jesus or been baptized (or both), they will still sin. it is impossible (they believe) for a person to live a sinless life in this world. However, they have to confess their sins - either directly to God in prayer (Protestant) or through a priest whom God uses as His instrument to absolve the sinner(Catholic and Orthodox). Only with sincere contrition and a desire not to commit the sin again will God forgive the sinner. However, the forgivness is possible because of Jesus' dying on the Cross. An unbaptized person who has not accepted Jesus cannot have their sins forgiven (the Christians believe).

    In the gospels, Jesus taught many good principles which, if obeyed, would really make the world a much better place. But evangelicals brush all this aside and concern themselves only with his death and resurrection. I guess it's much easier to bloviate on sola fide and make excuses about why Jesus was speaking figuatively when he said to give all of your money away to the poor. But of course, the hell doctrine is literal.
    The Catholic Church teaches that the Scriptures should always be interpreted literally unless a figurative meaning is clearly intended (e.g. when Jesus said "I am the door", we don't interpret this as meaning Jesus is made of wood). This has led a minority of Catholics to espouse the geocentric viewpoint (the sun revolves around the earth) because this is what a literal interpretation would lead to. They do, however, believe that Jesus was talking literally when He said "This is my Body" and "This is my Blood" at the Last Supper - they believe that the bread and wine consecrated at Mass truly become Christ's Body and Blood. Interestingly, there have been instances where the consecrated bread has started to bleed.

    Evangelicals tend to focus on Jesus' death and resurrection, but they also consider His teachings to be applicable in their lives. I remember a Baptist pastor giving a sermon on the verse "Judge not, that you may not be judged" (Matthew 7:1), and I don't remember him emphasising Christ's death and resurrection then.

    Christians need to put more emphasis depictions and recitations of the sermon on the mount, and be more focused on how he lived and taught, not how and why he died.
    Ah, but it's how He died that allows their sins to be forgiven.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •