Visishtadvaita - Srivaishnavism

[ramkish42]

Hi all,

Shri Satayji has made a suggestion and I accepted it.

From now on, I will posting on this thread, articles on Srivaishnavism. Request readers not to comment on the texts here itself, request you to open a separate thread so that flow of the text will not be affected.

I suppose this should be running material reference on Srivaishnavism.

Hopefully once in two days, you can expect a new post here.

Till this entire stuff is over, I will not be available for other discussions in the forum regularly, hence request you to excuse me for this. I should be covering the whole philosophy - baliyasi kevalam ishwarecha.

[Ram]

Nice Idea. I will try to contribute too, provided I have time.

[ramkish42]

Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Parabrahmane nama:
Srimate Vakulabhooshana Mahagurave nama: Srimate Ramanujaya nama:
Srimate Nigamanta Mahadesikaya nama:
Srimad Athivan Satakopa Yatheendra Mahadesikaya Nama:
Srimate Srivan Satakopa Sri Vedanthadesika Yatheendhra Mahadesikaya Nama:
Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Divyapadhukasevaka Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatheendhra Mahadesikaya nama:
There are ample references on Jivatma, Paramatma and other materials in Vedas. Based on vedas Maharishi Veda Vyasa propounded Vedanta Sutras.

Based on these Vedanta Sutras, we have three great religions popularly addressed as mathatrayam. Advaita, Visishtadvaita and Dvaita.

When Bauddha and Jain philosophy dominated India, verily it is feared that Vedic religion will be removed without even a trace. However, by God's grace, Shri Adi Sankara Bhagavatpada, Shrimad Ramanuja and Shri Madhvacharya came to this world and established the vedic religion.

Now among these three great perceptor, I would like to describe the system established by Shrimad Ramanuja.

Before, Let me take liberty to describe how different religions came(Matatrayam)

Some statements of sruthis verily condradict each other, some literally says Jivatma and paramatma are same, some literally says jivatama and paramatma are different. some literally says though jiva and paramatma are different they are same in some plane. This is identified with nomenclature of abheda sruthi and bheda sruthis.

Here, some rejected the direct meanings of bheda sruthis and stuck with abheda sruthis, some accepted direct meanings of bheda sruthi and rejected direct meanings of abheda sruthis. Shrimad Ramanuja bridged the gap of Bheda and Abheda sruthis, hence name the philosphy as visishta-advaita.

To give a gist

Lord: Shriman Narayana. He is verily with auspecious qualities like Sarvajnya, Satyakama and Satyasankalpa. Sarva Svatantran. He is verily Antaryami for all Brahmandaas. He is Atma for the jivaatma. Many a times addressed as Seshi.

Jiva: He is amsa of Lord. Collectively forms body for Lord. His primary feature is Jnana - He is said to be with Jnana. Atomic in size. Many a times addressed as Sesha (Servant)

Jagat: This is not an illusion but a reality, but this is destroyable

Samsara: Because of beginingless Karma, nature of Jivas gets reduced and dwindles, for Jiva this is Samsara

Moksha: By dedicating all Karma to Lord; by observing either bhakthi or prapatti (Charanagati - Self surrender) as a method; by realising relationship between Jiva and paramaatma; then remembering the real nature of soul; then by leaving the relationship with prakriti and being his own form is the idea of Moksha. At this stage all limitations on Jnana and auspecious features gets erased and becomes sarvajnya (all knowing), upon this jivaatma gets apraakruta sariram (Non decaying body) and reach Vaikunta, where in, Jivaatma enjoys the service of the lord is called Moksha

For abheda srutis like "Tatvamasi", Lord in Sthula form and Lord of Sukshama form are same is given a meaning

Jai shree krishna

[ramkish42]

Seeking the blessing of the revered gurus and bhakthas, I would like to give an introduction to vedanta sutras before proceeding the philosophy. As Vedanta sutras form the vital part of philosophical discourse in Hinduism, I feel this is necessary.

Vedas consist of two portions viz., the Karma Kanda which deals with sacrifices or ceremonial rites, and the Jnana Kanda which deals with knowledge of Brahman. (Some add the Upasana Kanda which treats of Upasana (worship) to this)

Mimamsa means the investigation or enquiry into the connected meaning of the sacred texts. Of this Mimamsa two branches have been recognised, the Purva Mimamsa (earlier) and the Uttara Mimamsa (the latter). The former systematises the Karma Kanda - the portion of the Veda which pertains to action and sacrifices and which comprises Samhitas and the Brahmanas; the latter systematises the Jnana Kanda i.e., that part of the Vedas which includes the Aranyaka portion of the Brahmanas and the Upanishads. Jaimini is the author of the Purva Mimamsa

The Vedas are eternal. They were not written by any individual. They came out from the breath of Hiranyagarbha (Lord Brahma). Vedanta is the end or gist of the Vedas. It deals with the knowledge portion. Vedanta is not mere speculation. It is the authentic record of transcendental experiences or direct and actual realisation of the great Hindu Rishis or seers. Brahma Sutras is the Science of the Soul

After completing the course of study of the vedas, the student should perform enquiry on Lord. To help with this, Vedanta Sutras came in.

The performance of rituals mentioned in vedas and in certain subsidary works grants only limited and transitory results. Hence high calibre vedic scholars went in search of other systems that could give unlimited and ever lasting results.

These sutras are very short statements, can I say - Concise Aphorism. They give the essence of the arguments on a topic. Maximum of thought is compressed or condensed into these Sutras in as few words as possible. It is easy to remember them. Great intellectual people only, with realisation, can compose Sutras. They are clues or aids to memory. They cannot be understood without a lucid commentary (Bhashya). The commentary also is in need of further elaborate explanation. Thus the interpretations of the Sutras gave rise to various kinds of literary writings such as Vrittis (gloss) and Karikas. The different Acharyas (founders of different schools of thought) have given their own interpretations of the Sutras to establish their own doctrines. The Bhashya of Sri Sankara on Brahma Sutras is known as Sariraka Bhashya. His school of thought is Kevala Advaita. The Bhashya of Sri Ramanuja who founded the Visishtadvaita School is called Sri Bhashya. The commentary of Sri Nimbarkacharya is known as Vedanta- parijata-saurabha. Sri Vallabhacharya expounded his system of philosophy of Suddhadvaita (pure monism) and his commentary on the Brahma Sutras is known as Anu Bhashya.

Those who wish to study the philosophy of Vedanta should study the Ten Classical Upanishads and the Brahma Sutras. All Acharyas have commented on Brahma Sutras. This is a great authority for every philosophical school in India. If any Acharya wishes to establish his own cult or sect or school of thought he will have to write a commentary of his own on Brahma Sutras. Then only it will be recognised.

The five great Acharyas: Shri Adi Sankara Bhagavatpada the exponent of Kevala Advaita or uncompromising monism, Shrimad Ramanuja the exponent of Visishtadvaita or qualified monism, Shri Nimbarka the exponent of Bhedabheda-vada, Shri Madhvacharya the exponent of strict Dvaitism or Dvaita-vada and Shri Vallabhacharya the exponent of Suddhadvaita-vada or pure monism agree that Brahman is the cause of this world and that knowledge of Brahman leads to Moksha or the final emancipation, which is the goal of life. They also emphatically declared that Brahman can be known only through the scriptures and not through mere reasoning, the very view of Maharishi Vedavyasa. But they differ amongst themselves as to the nature of this Brahman, the relation of the individual soul to Brahman, the state of the soul in the state of final emancipation, the means of attaining It and Its causality with reference to this universe

Maharishi Baadaraayana Veda Vyasa is the author of the Brahmasutras. He has stated herein, on the authority of the upanishads, that the knowledge of brahman leads to everlasting benefits. Maharishi mentions the names of Aasmarathya, Audulomi, Baadari and Kaasakrtsna having similar kind of opinions. Maharishi also mentions names of Jaimini and Kapila rishi indicating this work is later to that of days of Jaimini and Kapila. Maharishi is also considered to be the guru of Jaimini also indicates this work made during the life time of Jaimini.

Certain occidental writers have placed the sutra period is 2 BC. However, Maharishi seems to live around 3101 BC, the begining of Kali age, hence could be more or less dated around 3600 BC to 2900 BC. Possibilites of treating Krishna Dvapayana and Baadaraayana as different persons could affect this dating

As brahmasutras are not primary subject of this thread, we will deal with brahma sutras during the course of this disposition as and when required, I purport to stop here with the introduction

Glory to Maharishi Veda Vyasa Bhagavan, Son of Maharishi Parasara, the mighty sage, a Chiranjivi who has written all Puranas and also divided the Vedas. May his blessings be upon you all

kavitArkika simhAya kalyANa guNashAlinE
srimathE venkateshEyA vEdAnta guravE namaha

[ramkish42]

Shri Bhumi Devi Sametha Shri Oppliappan

[ramkish42]

As this thread proceeds, I wont be able to introduce this at later stage, hence making a provision for contents now itself.

I will update this as when a post is made

1. Pramana - Books of authority

[ramkish42]

The first and foremost thing which is common to all religions is this. In all Books on religion, the first chapter will be the sources of the religion, that is, which is the Book of Authority on which the religion is based. We call this thus: Pramanam or Manam meaning Authority. The second thing is Prameyam or Meyam meaning that which the Authority denotes, that is God. The third is Pramatha meaning he who finds out the Prameyam or God by reading and Understanding the Book of Authority. These three things are common and essential to all religions.

For Hindus Pramanam is the 4 Vedas, namely Rik Veda, Yajur Veda, Sama Veda, and Atharvana Veda. These are the invaluable Books of Authority for us. Beyond this, there is no other authority. The Vedas point out the God mainly, among over so many things, for our benefit.

Pramathas are men who can read the Vedas and find out the Prameya or God. Almost all men are ignorant and are incapable of reading the Vedas, much less understanding them. So God had created great Sages, Seers, Saints and Acharyas who were all endowed with superhuman knowledge . They help us with their Books and treatises and teachings to find out the Prameya or God from the Pramana, that is Vedas. The details of Pramana is as follows.

Pramana-(Authority):

The Original Authority or Pramana is the 4 Vedas, named above. They are the storehouse of all knowledge , which is derived only from them. The Vedas are eternal like God Himself, having no beginning or end but existing throughout. The Vedas have 6 Angas or Branches with the help of which only we can understand the Vedas. They are as follows.

Siksha : which is rhetoric which help us to pronounce and utter the Vedic words properly and correctly.

Vyakarnam : It means grammar which help us to learn the Vedic language.

Chandas: The third Anga is Chanda meaning metre and prosody . Vedic passages should be cited with proper Swara or intonation.

Niruktham: This is a science which gives the meaning of every letter in the words of the Vedas. This helps to learn the proper meaning and interpretation of the Vedic words.

Jyothisham or Astronomy: This is essential to find out time and all the things connected with time - auspicious, inauspicious, good, bad, fruitful time etc. It contains Mathematics which is necessary for all calculations affecting mankind.

Kalpam: Several sages have written sutras or treatises - containing the summary of the Vedas and helping us to know all about the Vedas. They are together called Kalpa.

Besides the six Angas of the Vedas there are also four other minor Angas and they are called as Upangas subsidiary branches. They are

Tarka or Nyaya: Meaning Logic which is a science of reasoning and inference, which is quite necessary to human thought and which goes a long way in sharpening human intellect.

Mimamsa: It is a science which deals with the interpretation of the Vedas and is essential for that purpose. Sage Jaimini has written the Mimamsa sutras which completely deal with this science with its numerous commentaries and treatises. There is also a sub-religion called the Mimamsaka religion, a Nasthika religion.

Dharma Shasthra: It is a summary of the Vedas and Smrithis, which comprises some sublime smirithis and sutras which has been dealt with above Dharma Shasthra.

Puranas: The epics, Ramayanam and Mahabharatha and the 18 puranas written by Sage Veda Vyasa gives instances and stories which dearly explain and elucidate several of the Vedic concepts and teachings and which, in short, is quite necessary to have a clear understanding of the sublime Vedas. This also has been dealt with, above. The Upangas along with the Angas of the Vedas help us to understand the Vedas clearly. The Angas as also the Smrithis and
Dharma Shastras profoundly help us to understand and evaluate the sublime principles of the Vedas.

All the Angas and Upangas are the branches of the Vedas and are essential to understand the Vedas. Various Rishis and saints have written very learned, monumental and useful books on all these Angas. By reading them only, we can have a full understanding of the Vedas.

The Vedas are together called Prabhu Samhita (work of the Master). A master will only give orders to his servants. So the Vedas order the people to do certain things and not to do certain things. So they are together called Prabhu Samhita (order of the Prabhu or Master), Vedas are called Sruti. These are about Vedas in Short.

The next thing is Smrithis seeing that the Vedas are not easily understandable, many sages have written simple slokas containing the meanings of the Vedas which can easily be read and even memorised by people who have got limited knowledge. They are simple slokas and can be easily understood. Dozens and scores of Rishis or Sages have written innumerable Smrithis. Manu also was one among them. He was a king of Ayodhya in the very early years and God had given him the knowledge to write his famous Manu Smrithi. It is Law from beginning to end. In short, there are hundreds of smrithis, big and small, written by several sages. Some sages have written their smirithis in slokas or verses. Some other have written sutras - short prose passages having a lot of meaning and ideas. The smrithis all reflect the true meaning of the Vedas in a simplified form. The smrithis are as a whole called Suhrit Samhita. Suhrit means a friend. A true friend will advise his friend to obey the orders of the master, as otherwise the latter will undergo great trouble. So the Suhrit Samhita is intended to carry out the orders of the Vedas (Prabhu Samhita).

The third and last thing is the Puranas or Epics. The Ramayana, the Mahabharatha and the 18 puranas written by sage Veda Vyasa contain the stories of several hundreds of person who by following the orders of the Vedas as interpreted by the Smrithis attained happiness and others who disobeyed them undergoing misery and punishment. The Puranas are intended to give examples of persons who obeyed or disobeyed the Vedic orders and attained misery or happiness. They are together called Kantha Samhita. Kantha means a wife. The wife of every man will give her husband examples in the form of stories about virtuous and vicious persons and refer to their fate good or bad. So like a wife , the Puranas give stories to emphasize the Vedic orders and hence they are together called Kantha Samhita. A study of the smrithis and Puranas are essential to understand and appreciate the Vedas.

Added to them, we have two more Pramanas. The first is the Nalayira Divya Prabandam also called Arulicheyal or Tamil Vedam, which are Tamil verses, in all 4000 in number, written by the Azhwars. They are all about Lord Narayana or Mahavishnu and are the clear summary of the Prasthana Trayam, which stated above. The Azhwars are 12 in number including a lady Andal and Mathurakavi Azhwar, who had sung only 11 Tamil verses, all about not Lord Naryana, but about his own Guru Nammazhwar. The Azhwars had seen God and got His grace. They were great Yogis or Saints and had sound knowledge of all the Pramanas. That is why their works, through in Tamil, is considered as valid Pramana like the Vedas.

The second additional Pramana is the Pancharathra Samhitas, which we, the Vaishnavites hold in great esteem as a valid Pramana. In the beginning, the Asura Madhukaitaba seized the Vedas from Lord Brahma and hid himself into the sea. Lord Vishnu took the Matsyavathara or the form of a giant fish, fought with the Asura within the sea, killed him and got back the Vedas and restored them to Brahma. It took 5 days for the Lord for this purpose. Without the Vedas, the world became dark, not knowing how to worship the Lord. So Lord Vishnu divided Himself into two, one as Guru or teacher and the other as Sishya or disciple. The guru taught the disciple the methods of worshipping God for five nights. Hence the teaching was called Pancharatra or work of the five nights. They are all about the methods of worship. They are 108 books called Pancharathra Samhithas, which are followed in the various Vishnu temples in the country.

Incidentally, I want to mention another thing. Like the Pancharathra Samhitas, there is another kind of Samhitas called the Vaikhanasa Samhithas. They also are about the methods of worship in temples. They were taught to Sage Vikanas by Vishnu and through him to the Sage's descendants. They are also 108 Books existing side by side with the Pancharathra Samhitas. All the temples in the country even in villages fall under one or other of the said varieties, for example, the Srirangam Ranganatha Temple is a Pancharathra temple, while the Tirupati Srinivasa Temple is a Vaikhanasa temple, but all the temples are valuable, holy and deserve to be worshipped with same devotion by the Vaishnavas. The Samhitas under both are together known as Agamas. Pancharathra Agamas and Vaikhanasa Agamas.

Having said about books of authority, we will proceed with every topic under the philosophy. Most of the terms I had used here might be new to many readers, request them to bear with me for the moment, soon as this thread proceeds every aspect of doubt will be touched and clarified. In case you need help on this or want to add more to this request you to PM me or mail me

Jai shree Krishna

[ramkish42]

1. On what logic Brahmasutras is considered as Valid Text

a. Its author - Maharishi Veda Vyasa, being a person of high calibre, without any ignorance, illusion an deception, makes the book authoritative. By logic, every books nature is determined by the calibre of the author

b. By reading the text one can see even the texts lacks ignorance, illusion and deception, further it carries support of Veda and Logic

c. Upanishads refers to God hence called Vidya, (Ya vidya vimukthaye, education / knowledge should lead to moksha), similarly, Brahma sutras is Vidya for it shows the direct path to Moksha by determining the real meaning of Veda. Veda has a whole consists of Vidya and Shilpanaipuna aparavidya (subject that can be mastered by practise), as Brahmasutra is concise Veda filtering out shilpanaipuna aparavidya parts, it is Vidya, hence Valid

2. How does Brahma Sutra teach us these subject and purpose

Brahma sutra is regarded as Nyayasutra. Maharishi Veda Vyasa has written brahmasutra to establish every Prameya (Object of knowledge) by using logic. By using logic his intention was to analyse critically to give us clear and firm knowledge of every subject and the purpose etc., that are mentioned in Vedas and puranas.

This is similar to that of using Polishing stone to Gold. As a great teacher authors statements has more validity

The very logic used by Maharishi Veda Vyasa indicates that Self is a matter of logic

Further, Maharishi Veda Vyasa in the opening itself declared, God is a subject matter of Scriptures and not logic, hence excluding god as per the text, everything is a subject matter of Logic

3. You said Paancharaatra is a valid text, but generally it is not felt so.

Paancharaatra is a valid text. This paanchataatra used to be a part of ekaayana saakha. Its validity is established in Mahabharatha, another work by the same author and also in the very Brahma Sutras.

Further more, there are two extensive texts available on establishing validity of Paancharaatra a. Agamapramaanya and b. Paancharaatra Raksha, as and when this thread proceeds, agamapramaanya will be disucussed in detail - baleeyasi kevalam eshwarechcha; God willing, it should happen

4. What is new to the pramana texts with Vaishnavism

Unlike other philosophies which carries its authority only on sanskrit texts, Visishtadvaita also accepts validity of 4000 verses made in another ancient language of India, Tamil. Till now, only Sanskrit and Tamil are legally categorised as ancient language by Government of India. By having it traces to Bodayana Vriddhi available in Kashmir and to Tamil works in another extreme end, it verily establishes this system was spread throughout India.

5. Is Veda Valid

This is typical query posted by many non hindus and many want to hear this how we establish veda as pramana. My next thread will be on Pramana - means of knowledge, where I will deal with this question, hence, request readers to wait until then.

For time being I can say, Vedas is the ancient text, the very first book that humans know. Further more, apart from the age, the subject matter makes it authority. Having the subject of God, thus leading to Moksha, it becomes part of real education, hence valid.

Furthermore, Veda is not authored by any human. Having understood that Kali Yuga which is present Yuga as passed for 5100 plus years, we hear that Veda existed even before Kali Yuga, thus it should be existing for more than 5100 years. Having the rhetorics, meter, inotation and sequence without any error for so many errors, logic does not allows us to believe that fact inspite of retaining all such minor details, people had forgotten the author of the text. Hence, logically Veda could have no human author. In hindu system there is no belief of Satan - enemy of god, verily one happens to pray one god or another, thus establishing no enemy of god, Veda could have only divine authorship, hence highly Valid

6. How to understand Veda.

We know now that Veda is the ancient work and all other works like puranas and Itihasaas, other subsidary works like smritis and stotras came up later. Many of this esp Puranas and Mahabharatha were written by the same person who has made brahma sutras. Verily it is same Maharishi who has classified Vedas in four parts. Thus it is very evident that Maharishi Veda Vyasa making later works indicates he has made such works in accordance with primary authority i.e. Veda.

To put in common parlence one can say, Itihaasaas, puranas and smritis are like guide books to original texts. When we have contradicting phrases on Vedas, we look in to guide books for more clarity

Thus, we understand Veda with help of other pramanas

Having said this, one can know, in case of doubt we use other pramanas. When other pramanas clearly indicates one things, we say Veda indicates the same. At this juncture, one can ask, does this indicates other pramanas carries more authority than Veda, to this our answer is no, we made is clear that other pramanas are like guide book, thus it indicates, when veda itself carries lesser or no authority so does other pramanas. If Veda carries higher authority, by deriving authority from this super text, other pramanas becomes authority, hence by no means, other pramanas can carry greater authority than veda.

[ramkish42]

Readers can know about Vaikanasa Agama from this link

http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encycloped...evot/vaik.html

[ramkish42]

I will post more details on this later, but want to start this before closing for the day


According to Visistadvaita, for a knowledge to be valid it should fulfill two conditions.

1. It should reveal things as they are.
2. It should serve a practical need.

Pramana signifies the means of arriving at prama (vaild knowledge).
Visistadvaita admits three pramanas

1. Pratyaksa Perception
2. Anumana Inference
3. Sabda Scripture / Verbal testimony

Other schools of thought admit more or less than three pramanas.

• Mimaamsakas as well as Advaitins regard upamAna (Comparison), arthApatti (presumption) and anupalabdhi (non-apprehension) as additional pramanas.
• Carvakas regard Pratyaksa (perception) as the only valid pramana
• Buddhists regard Pratyaksa (perception) and Anumana (inference) as the only pramanas and deny authority to Sabda (Verbal testimony).

How the school of thoughts varies will be discussed later