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Thread: Nara + Narayana

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    Nara + Narayana

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~
    Namaste sarabhanga,

    I have doubts and thought you can assist me. Regarding Nara and Naryana. On some previous posts we started to offer some simple equalities to help define terms.

    With the equality below, you offered the first 5 components, and I added the 6th e.g. Arjuna and Krsna ( in blue).

    turya = brahma = prajñA = prajñAnam = nara= Arjuna
    turIya = brahmA = prAjña = prajñAnasya = nArAyaNa=Krsna


    You then returned the equality with the edits below in purple.

    turya = brahma = prajñA = prajñAnam = nara = kRSNa = namaH shivAya = aghorghoratara
    turIya = brahmA = prAjña = hiraNyagarbha = nArAyaNa = arjuna = shiM = aghoraghora

    I asked you of this, and your kind recommendation was to review the following HDF Post (which I did)
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1878

    My brain cramp (vicikitsa)
    I cannot discern/comprehend why nara is Krsna, and not Arjuna. Why so? I look at it in this simple mannor…

    Nara + ayana or Nara's direction (ayana) - or one that helps/assist the human to the goal i.e. moksha, liberation, etc. as I see it being used in various shastras:

    Nara as human , and thus as Arjuna
    Narayana as the Supreme ( Krsna, Visnu, Siva)
    The compound or tatpurusha is Nara + ayana or Nara's direction (ayana).

    Please correct me as I have been unable to shift to this new definition offered with understanding & comprehension. Any help from you would be welcomed.



    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 16 October 2007 at 01:54 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Post Re: Nara + Narayana

    Namaste Yajvan,

    If you have considered my post(s), the following should be familiar ~ but (remembering that a and A are different letters) try reading these lines again.

    nara is “the primeval man” (as “the eternal spirit pervading the universe”); and nArAyaNa is the “son of the primeval man”.

    nara is the old man; and nArAyaNa is the young man.

    nara is the original undivided puruSa; and nArAyaNa is his divided self-conception.

    nara is aja and ekapada; while nArAyaNa is prajA and sahasrapAda.

    nara is hara (the one paramAtman); and nArAyaNa is hari (the many jIvAtmAna).

    nara is akala (“not in parts”); and nArAyaNa is his kalam (“seed”), which is kAla (“enumerated”).

    In yoga, nara and nArAyaNa are realized as non-different (a perfect twin), and the naranArAyaNau is observed.

    And naranArAyaNa is another name for kRSNa.

    The turya (brahma) is known as hara or nara.
    The turIya (brahmA) is known as hari or nArAyaNa (or nArAyaNau).
    And the turIyAtIta (brAhma) is known as nAra and nAri, or hAra and hAri.

    hari is nArAyaNa, but secretly nArAyaNau; and this innermost twin has its own twin implications ~ implying both nAra-nArAyaNa and nara-nArAyaNa.

    As above, so below ~ and likewise above and below that as well!

    In practice, the hidden nArAyaNau is the key to the whole equation.

    The starting point is always nAra or nAri, and the final destination is always nara (the paramaM padam), but the path can only be via the nArAyaNau, and so (in practice) that vital guheSa must always be the aim. And once the guheSa is truly known, the full knowledge of hara and paramaM padam comes automatically ~ and the goal is attained.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 24 October 2007 at 03:02 AM.

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    Re: Nara + Narayana

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    If you have considered my post(s), the following should be familiar ~ but (remembering that a and A are different letters) try reading these lines again.

    nara is the primeval man (as the eternal spirit pervading the universe); and nArAyaNa is the son of the primeval man.

    nara is the old man; and nArAyaNa is the young man.

    nara is the original undivided puruSa; and nArAyaNa is his divided self-conception.

    nara is aja and ekapada; while nArAyaNa is prajA and sahasrapAda.

    nara is hara (the one paramAtman); and nArAyaNa is hari (the many jIvAtmAna).

    nara is akala (not in parts); and nArAyaNa is his kalam (seed), which is kAla (enumerated).

    In yoga, nara and nArAyaNa are realized as non-different (a perfect twin), and the naranArAyaNau is observed.

    And naranArAyaNa is another name for kRSNa.

    The turya (brahma) is known as hara or nara.
    The turIya (brahmA) is known as hari or nArAyaNa (or nArAyaNau).
    And the turIyAtIta (brAhma) is known as nAra and nAri, or hAra and hAri.

    hari is nArAyaNa, but secretly nArAyaNau; and this innermost twin has its own twin implications ~ implying both nAra-nArAyaNa and nara-nArAyaNa.

    As above, so below ~ and likewise above and below that as well!

    In practice, the hidden nArAyaNau is the key to the whole equation.

    The starting point is always nAra or nAri, and the final destination is always nara (the paramaM padam), but the path can only be via the nArAyaNau, and so (in practice) that vital guheSa must always be the aim. And once the guheSa is truly known, the full knowledge of hara and paramaM padam comes automatically ~ and the goal is attained.
    Namaste Sarabhanga,
    this is helpful and its as I thought ... 'A' vs. 'a'. yet the nuance's of this I do not 'own' in my mind as yet.

    So now I need to think it through and let it soak as I have one part of the formula down. e.g. nara is the primeval man and naranArAyaNa is another name for kRSNa.

    thank you for taking the time to lay this out (again).

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Nara + Narayana

    Namaste All,

    I wish someone could collect and bring here the original Vedic references from Samhitas on Narayana.

    As far as I know (and my knowing may be very inadequate) Purusha suktam of Rig Veda is known to have been from Narayana Rishi. Where else in Samhita Narayana is mentioned?

    Any help would be welcome as this part of understanding eludes me largely. As on today, I understand Narayana as the Pragnya of the Atman. The following is the understanding of Advaita Asrama.

    The name Narayana originates from two Sanskrit terms coming together - Nara which means water and ayana which means movement. This indicates the all-pervasive nature of Narayana as that of an Infinite Ocean (consciousness) in which the never-ending movement of birth, life and death of the cosmos occurs.

    The book, Sri Ramanuja, His Life, Religion, and Philosophy, published by Sri Ramakrishna Math, Chennai, India, states that the name "Narayana" means, "He who is the dwelling place, i.e., the source, support and dissolving ground of all Jivas or souls, including inert matter."
    Mahanarayana

    XIII-1-3: This universe is truly the Divine Person only. Therefore it subsists on Him – the self-effulgent Divine Being – who has many heads and many eyes, who is the producer of joy for the universe, who exists in the form of the universe, who is the master and the cause of humanity, whose forms are the various gods, who is imperishable, who is the all-surpassing ruler and saviour, who is superior to the world, who is endless and omniform, who is the goal of humanity, who is the destroyer of sin and ignorance, who is the protector of the universe and the ruler of individual souls, who is permanent, supremely auspicious and unchanging, who has embodied Himself in man as his support (being the indwelling Spirit), who is supremely worthy of being known by the creatures, who is embodied in the universe and who is the supreme goal.

    XIII-4: Narayana is the Supreme Reality designated as Brahman. Narayana is the highest (Self). Narayana is the supreme Light (described in the Upanishads). Narayana is the infinite Self. [Narayana is the most excellent meditator and meditation.]

    XIII-5: Whatsoever there is in this world known through perception (because of their proximity) or known through report (because of their distance), all that is pervaded by Narayana within and without.


    Maho Upanishad

    I-1-4. Then we shall expound the Mahopanishad. They say Narayana was alone. There were not Brahma, Ishana, Waters, Fire and Soma, Heaven and Earth, Stars, Sun and Moon. He could not be happy.
    From the (desire of) the Paramatman, the Yajnastoma (hymn known as Avyakta) is said to have arisen.

    -----
    lakshyaalakshyamati.n tyaktvaa yastishhThetkevalaatmanaa .

    shiva eva svaya.n saakshaadayaM brahmaviduttamaH .. 85..adhishhThaanamanaupamyamavaa~Nmanasagocharam.h .nitya.n vibhu.n sarvagata.n susuukshma.n cha tadavyayam.h .. 86..

    He who remains giving up what is implied and expressed is Shiva himself, the best of the Brahman-Knowers. That un-decaying being is the substratum (of all), without comparison beyond words and mind, eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent and subtle.

    sarva.n shaanta.n niraalamba.n vyomastha.n shaashvata.n shivam.h .anaamayamanaabhaasamanaamakamakaaraNam.h .. 45..

    na sannasanna madhyaanta.n na sarva.n sarvameva cha .
    manovachobhiragraahyaM puurNaatpuurNa.n sukhaatsukham.h .. 46..

    V-45. All is calm (needing) no support, existing in the ether (of the heart), eternal, auspicious, devoid of ailment and illusion, name and cause.

    V-46. Neither existent nor non-existent, nor in between, nor the negation of all; beyond the grasp of mind and words, fuller than the fullest, more joyful than joy.

    From the definition given above from the Ramakrishna Math -- Nara is Narayana. Since Nara (Water-Consciousness) is the movement (ayana) also. In other words, there would be no movement had there been no Nara. From Mahanarayana Upanishad, it is gathered that whatever is known is pervaded by Narayana that would mean that Narayana is the manifest consciousness (manifest Brahman) and not the indescribable Turya.


    From Maho Upanishad, which seems to term Narayana as Param Atman, however, also says that He was not happy alone. And in later passages describe Shiva as the one who is bliss, neding no support at all. Probably Sarabhanga and Me have same/similar understanding regarding this. Narayana is actually Brahma -- the unhappy creator father, whithin whom is hidden the bliss called Shiva.

    Shiva is called Neither existent nor non-existent Self (unmanifest Turya) and Krishna himself says He is sat and asat (manifest Pragnya)

    I would like to know of the exact verses in Veda Samhitas that are on Narayana.

    (In Rudra Gita, Shiva says that all worship him alone as Narayana.)


    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 27 October 2007 at 02:06 PM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Post Re: Nara + Narayana

    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu

    Purusha suktam of Rig Veda is known to have been from Narayana Rishi. Where else in Samhita Narayana is mentioned?
    Namaste Atanu,

    nArAyaNa is not explicit in any saMhitA, but the name (as I have often mentioned) is a standard patronymic form, derived from nara.

    For example:

    bAdarAyaNa is “the son of badara
    bAhumitrAyaNa is “the son of bahumitra
    bhArgAyaNa is “the son of bharga
    cAkrAyaNa is “the son of cakra
    dArbhAyaNa is “the son of darbha
    dhArmyAyaNa is “the son of dharmya
    dhaumrAyaNa is “the son of dhUmra
    gairAyaNa is “the son of giri
    gArgyAyaNa is “the son of gArgya
    graiSmAyaNa is “the son of grISma
    jAlaMdharAyaNa is “the son of jalaMdhara
    kaiMkarAyaNa is “the son of kiMkara
    kASAyaNa is “the son of kaSAya
    kaumArAyaNa is “the son of kumAra
    khAdirAyaNa is “the son of khadira
    khArapAyaNa is “the son of kharapa
    khArjUrAyaNa is “the son of kharjUra
    krauSTrAyaNa is “the son of kroSTri
    maitrAyaNa is “the son of mitra
    mATharAyaNa is “the son of mAThara
    paiÑgarAyaNa is “the son of piÑgara
    pArAsharyAyaNa is “the son of pArAsharya
    pauSpAyaNa is “the son of pauSpi
    pAvitrAyaNa is “the son of pavitra
    raudrAyaNa is “the son of rudra
    saukRtyAyana is “the son of sukRtya
    svArAyaNa is “the son of svara
    vAdhyoSAyaNa is “the son of vadhyoSa
    vaishvAnarAyaNa is “the son of vishvAnara
    yaugaMdharAyaNa is “the son of yugaMdhara
    shAbarAyaNa is “the son of shabara

    And nArAyaNa is “the son of nara” !!

    nara = brahma
    nArAyaNa = brahmA


    And nArAyaNa is “the son of man” who is truly the son of God.
    Last edited by sarabhanga; 28 October 2007 at 05:42 AM.

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    Re: Nara + Narayana

    Namaste Sarabhanga Ji,

    Excellent. What you say makes good sense to me and this matches with the meaning of Narayana given by Ramakrishna Math.

    ayana -- the movement, the extention, which cannot be without Nara as the substratum. And It is mind that only brings knowledge to Self, so it is natural that the son will bring wisdom to the father.

    nara = brahma
    nArAyaNa = brahmA

    The above is excellent. However, in the second line, an intermediate something may be required, since Maha Upanishad says that:

    They say Narayana was alone. There were not Brahma, Ishana ------ He could not be happy (Maha Upanishad).

    -------------------------------

    Or, as I understand, that Nara (apparently limited man) first realises its Narayana nature (infinite Purusha nature of thousand heads which according to me means the mind attached to infinite objects), through three steps of Mandukya, through its own Pragnya -- and realises that BrahmA and Ishana are its own Pragnya (Sarvesvara)? But still happiness eludes.

    Further, it searches and finds "I am Shiva": "I am happiness itself"


    Maha Upanishad

    lakshyaalakshyamati.n tyaktvaa yastishhThetkevalaatmanaa .
    shiva eva svaya.n saakshaadayaM brahmaviduttamaH .. 85..

    adhishhThaanamanaupamyamavaa~Nmanasagocharam.h .nitya.n vibhu.n
    sarvagata.n susuukshma.n cha tadavyayam.h .. 86..

    He who remains giving up what is implied and expressed is Shiva himself, the best of the Brahman-Knowers. That un-decaying being is the substratum (of all), without comparison beyond words and mind, eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent and subtle.

    sarva.n shaanta.n niraalamba.n vyomastha.n shaashvata.n shivam.h
    .anaamayamanaabhaasamanaamakamakaaraNam.h .. 45..

    na sannasanna madhyaanta.n na sarva.n sarvameva cha .
    manovachobhiragraahyaM puurNaatpuurNa.n sukhaatsukham.h .. 46..

    V-45. All is calm (needing) no support, existing in the ether (of the heart), eternal, auspicious, devoid of ailment and illusion, name and cause.

    V-46. Neither existent nor non-existent, nor in between, nor the negation of all; beyond the grasp of mind and words, fuller than the fullest, more joyful than joy.
    And it makes sense that Soma is the progenitor of earth, heaven, vedas, surya, Indra, Vishnu. It also makes sense that Vedas say that by worshipping Vishnu one worships Soma.

    In the stage of purification, Soma is Narayana. Purified Soma is Shivam alone.

    In other words, Narayana is extention, power, or son of Nara. Narayana is the cognitive mind, which knows self as limited Jiva (Nara), as thousand headed purusha, as creator Brahma, as Ishana -- Shulapani, and ultimately as Self (Shivam) - when it is advaita and fuller than the fullest, more joyful than joy.

    V-46. Neither existent nor non-existent, nor in between, nor the negation of all; beyond the grasp of mind and words, fuller than the fullest, more joyful than joy.

    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 27 October 2007 at 11:39 PM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  7. #7
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    Post Re: Nara + Narayana

    According to Manu, nArAH indicates the waters and ayana is a place of refuge, and the shining nArAyaNa (i.e. brahmA) was so named because the waters were his first residence.

    nArAH is the plural of nAra (mortal man or an inhabitant of hell), and Manu is presumably referring to both the (macrocosmic) depths of immortal nara and to the (microcosmic) heart of mortal nAra.

    nara = brahmayoni
    nArAyaNa = brahmabIja

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    Post Re: Nara + Narayana

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post

    According to Manu, nArAH indicates the waters and ayana is a place of refuge, and the shining nArAyaNa (i.e. brahmA) was so named because the waters were his first residence.

    nArAH is the plural of nAra (mortal man or an inhabitant of hell), and Manu is presumably referring to both the (macrocosmic) depths of immortal nara and to the (microcosmic) heart of mortal nAra.
    1. nAra is lost.
    2. nAra seeks nArAyaNa.
    3. nAra becomes identified with nArAyaNa (and thus nAra-nArAyaNa).
    4. nArAyaNa is already familiar with his own parent nara (and always together they are nara-nArAyaNa).
    5. nAra (as nAra-nArAyaNa) is immediately realized as nara-nArAyaNa and as one with nara.

    In the beginning, mortal nAra vaishvAnarAyaNa suffers in nAraloka, but he must go deeper to find nArAyaNa (into a veritable pAtAla, where yama himself must be confronted). And in the end, he arises as immortal nara nArAyaNa, to live happily ever after in the bliss of svarga, even in naraloka.

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    Smile Re: Nara + Narayana



    nara = brahma = paramAtman = prajAtman = kevalAtman
    nArAyaNa = brahmA = sUtrAtman = prANAtman = karmAtman
    nAra = brAhma = jIvAtman = pratyagAtman = kAmAtman


  10. #10

    Re: Nara + Narayana

    Just a small information on the matter...Vishnu has been referred as nara in the sahasranama (verse 27 i think) of badarayana.

    Thanks to sarabhanga for the posts in this thread.
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