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Thread: Be Steady Even in Hardship.

  1. #11
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    Re: Be Steady Even in Hardship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    ----- Often the suicidal person at least on the outside seems to be very strong-minded, ----

    Namaste,

    I feel the same way. In most cases, suicide is not for the weak. In any case, it may happen when the threshold of fear of death and desire for life both are overcome, catalysed by agony of a situation.


    But suicide is definitely a mistake. The subtle body will have more trouble, loaded with grudge and having no body to act out some problems. This subtle body may also begin to torment other people out of spite? And possibly bullies are born of such discontented souls.

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #12
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    Re: Be Steady Even in Hardship.

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste,

    I feel the same way. In most cases, suicide is not for the weak. In any case, it may happen when the threshold of fear of death and desire for life both are overcome, catalysed by agony of a situation.


    But suicide is definitely a mistake. The subtle body will have more trouble, loaded with grudge and having no body to act out some problems. This subtle body may also begin to torment other people out of spite? And possibly bullies are born of such discontented souls.

    Om
    Atanu: very insightful post. Yes, we are taught that suicide is a mistake. My understanding of karma would indicate one would have to face the same or very similar troubles again, until it is overcome. Interesting thoughts on the subtle bodies as well. I do believe that subtle bodies can torment. I think we underestimate them sometimes. For example, alcoholism weakens the defenses, and subtle body former alcoholics can use the current physical body of an alcoholic to 'live' out their own alcoholism.
    Not all suicides are out of grudge, though. Some are grudging themselves, their own lack of willpower, and that is who they're fed up with, enough to contemplate suicide.
    It would also seem sensible karma wise that bullies are reborn as victims, and vice versa. I wonder how that vicious cycle ends. Time, I guess.
    Thanks again for the excellent insight.
    I did research suicide on the net, and it is highest in eastern bloc countries generally, such as Austria, and Lithuania where atheism is a prevalent belief, and definitely lowest in Islamic countries, although I suspect the data on that. Remember the Iranian president declaring there are no gays in Iran. (The suicide research was according to WHO) Aum Namasivaya

  3. #13
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    Re: Be Steady Even in Hardship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    -----and definitely lowest in Islamic countries, although I suspect the data on that. ---(The suicide research was according to WHO) Aum Namasivaya
    Namaste Eastern Mind,

    Substantial chunk of suicide bombers, however.

    hehe.

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  4. #14
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    Re: Be Steady Even in Hardship.

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste,

    In most cases, suicide is not for the weak. In any case, it may happen when the threshold of fear of death and desire for life both are overcome, catalysed by agony of a situation.

    But suicide is definitely a mistake.
    Namste EM and atanu,
    In the USA there's even a Suicide Prevention Week. Canada's suicide, EM has historically been similar to or slightly higher (per capita) than that of the United States. About 3800 suicides are recorded in Canada each year.

    I agree , if one dies abruptly and does not finish their allotted breaths,
    then they will be back anyway. Yet this seems a cold way of looking at it.
    For me, my level of compassion has increased 100 fold for these folks.
    As one must think how much grief + maya + angst and disturbance is one experiencing to end ones life in a horrific manner. I can't even get a flu shot without crying about it, let alone do a swan dive off a bridge...

    Two points for your consideration and response...

    • For those that are 'hard nosed' on ones fate and karma could argue, the day of ones demise is set and if it comes by suicide or natural causes the number of breaths taken are already metered out, you do not have a say , not one more or one less breath will be given to you. Any opinions on this?
    • Is there part of society that is more prone to this behaviour then others? the data below suggests there could be. Your opinion on this would be of interest.
    Some data for your consideration - mostly USA centric
    • Suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the United States
    • Approximately 811,000 Americans attempt suicide each year yet ~ 30,000 are completed.
    • Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death among 15 to 24 year olds.
    • The elderly make up 12 percent of the population, but comprise 16 percent of all suicides.
    Statistically significant rates of suicide for:
    White male physicians.
    • Black male guards (including supervisors, crossing guards, police, protective service occupations, but not correctional institution occupations).
    • White female painters, sculptors, craft-artists and artist printmakers.
    • Women attempt suicide three times as frequently as men.
    • Another study found that only laborers and the unemployed had significantly higher risks.
    • On the other hand, he found "dramatic" differences for suicide among the industries where people work. At highest risk were those in mining, business and repair services, wholesale and retail trade and construction.
    Around the world ( not much info for India)

    • Canada's suicide -about 3800 suicides are recorded
    • countries with the highest suicide rates include
    • Latvia (42.5 suicides per 100,000 people),
    • Lithuania (42.1)
    • Estonia (38.2)
    • Russia (37.8), and Hungary (35.9)
    • Countries with the lowest suicide rates include:
    • Guatemala (0.5),
    • Philippines (0.5),
    • Albania (1.4),
    • Dominican Republic (2.1),
    • Armenia (2.3)
    source: http://www.a1b2c3.com/suilodge/facenc1.htm
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/82132.php
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/81868.php
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15
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    Re: Be Steady Even in Hardship.

    Namaste,

    This is an interesting topic to consider, today. One of my long time friends (30 + years) committed suicide on his wife's (also 30 + year friend) birthday this past September. As Samhain approaches and the edge between night and day are blurred, I pray for/with the dearly departed (DD). My benefactress, Inanna, ventures into the netherworlds and returns, you see ...

    Death is perhaps one of the most interesting propositions we face, I think, as humans (if that's what we are, heh). My friend, I think he sought to free himself *and* his wife somehow; their sons were grown and successful, gaining the success that he'd never thought he had. She was the strong one, always was.

    The notion of sacrifice, the impermanent death of the Christ (as depicted in the tarot card "The Hanged Man") ... I think that suicide begs this release.

    Is it not suicide (of sorts?) to throw oneSelves at Kali's feet? This is a form of Shiva I don't see discussed often. Yet the notion of the ultimate Release, of "losing one's head" ... is that not a suicidal thought?

    The rational mind resists such thought, and for good reason. Without "self-preservation" we would perish as a species. However this same inbred instinct defies the possibility of some of those states of nonSelf which would be found, otherwise.



    R.I.P.

    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

  6. #16

    Smile Re: Be Steady Even in Hardship.

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    Thanks Arvind for presenting Sringeri Mahaswami's viewpoints. However a brief background on these might help, like on what occations did the jagatguru mention these stories. Are you talking about present acharya (sri bharati tirtha mahaswami) or one of his illustrious predecessors ?? Are these already available in English somewhere ??

    Om Shirdi Sai Ram.
    Namaste Singhi Kaya.

    1)I do not know the background as to on what occassions the Jagadguru has mentioned these moral stories.
    2)Yes,I am talking about the present acharya His Holiness Sri Bharathi Tirtha Mahaswamiji.
    3)Yes,It is available in English in a monthly book release called "Tattvaloka".

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