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Thread: Veda and Comprehension

  1. #1
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    Veda and Comprehension

    hari om
    ~~~~~

    namaste,

    There is this reasonable notion that reading brings understanding. Yet there is a fact that says reading does not insure comprehension. When it comes to the vedas this is of the greatest import.

    I bring this up as reading the ved needs to be complimented with grooming consciousness, this turya we speak of often. Who says so? The Vedas:

    ṛco akṣare paramevyoman yasmin devā adhi viśve niṣeduḥ |
    yastan na veda kiṃ ṛcā kariṣyati ya it tad vidusta ime samāsate ||

    (ṛg, some write ṛ́c, veda 1.164.39)
    The Veda or rks, reside in the transcendental field or akshara, of the highest (parame) etheral Being (vyoman) in which reside all the adhi vishve deva's (or impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature), responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open (na veda) to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him?
    Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness (samasate or rest contented) , in That ( Tat or Bhuma, fullness-wholeness of life)."

    What does this say in short? Of what use is the ved, for he whom is not becoming established in the Absolute? Where will be the value of this great knowledge other then words... it says, become established in atman, the avyayam (undecaying), the even-ness to reap the full value of the knowledge.

    Reading is good yet experiencing and stablizing this level of Being, turya is essential to milk out the benefits of the Ved. What does one do in the interim before having this turya established all the time? We look to others that have this level of Being established for their views and guidance.


    So, if someone said ' haven't you read the vedas ?' - one should not feel any discomfort or angst. The true honey of the veda unfolds as consciousness unfolds. IMHO reading the samhita's in their original sanskrit format is more of a challenge. One then may read the interpretations , discourses, thereof. Yet reading-listening to the Vedas assists in the grooming of this level of consciousness. The Upanishads are designed to help comprehend this Reality, this Brahman and unfold the wisdom found in the Vedas.

    Here on HDF some offer a 'cut and paste' section of the Veda with no interpretation, little preamble, or their views , likes or objections and says 'there, I have proved my point'. You might as well give me the electrical blueprints for NASA's space shuttle. Looks interesting, I may discern a line here or there but that's about it.

    So is reading the Veda the answer? The veda's will not bring one to establishing Atman, this Brahma Sakshtkara ( Self Realization) or turiyatit chetana. Yet listening to the veda's is another POV and can be left for anther time.

    Who says just reading will not do the trick? the Kathopanishad, section 1.2.23. And it also says (Chapt 1.2.8) that the SELF when taught by a man of inferior intellect is not easy to be known, as it is to be thought of in various ways; Yet when taught by the preceptor (the Brahmavit), one with Brahman, there is no doubt concerning it, the SELF being subtler then subtle, and is not obtained by arguing.


    Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury - I am this avarena narena one who has not attained SELF realization (the inferior man). Most if not all on HDF I presume are of this same nature , in varying degrees. We are here to learn , to share , to help one another move forward, to reach this SELF referral state of Being, Brahman.

    So yajvan, what's your point? Do you have one?
    As of late it seems to me, there as been the approach used by some that ' my way is the best, it is the truth, and your way is inferior. How could you possibly think like that... here let me show you this bramana, this Upanishad this .... there! see that. That proves I am in the right'.

    For many here on the forum we read the vedas and offer the words - yet do we offer the wisdom that is nestled in the sutras, mantras and stotras? Help is by giving insights, by pondering and asking questions.

    Some of us may have more knowledge in one area and less in another, yet we are all learning. Also, many may have a guru, teacher or pundit that offers their words of wisdom, and these are passed along to us...this is a blessing.

    I am in hopes we can share this info with open minds - perhaps a neuron or two will turn on. Someone will be inspired in some way, a new idea will spring forth to connect the dots, or a new book is offered for consideration.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 November 2017 at 12:19 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
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    Re: Veda and Comprehension

    Namaste,

    I certainly appreciate all the thoughtful insights (and quotations, too, hehe) posted by the members here. While some may post their comments more forcefully than others, it is the friction sometimes which brings comprehension to my unschooled mind which needs to be knocked upside the head at times.

    That said, courtesy and grace of form (in writing) is something I appreciate as well. Demeaning comments, IMO, serve no purpose save to serve ego, which seems a bit ironic on a forum of this type!

    Until today, I had no context for many of the apparently seminal debates regarding interpretation of Hindu Scriptures; I am grateful to all the posters for casting light and shadow where before no definition could be seen.


    ZN

    PS Welcome back to so many "regulars" who have returned over the past couple few months!
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

  3. #3
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    Re: Veda and Comprehension

    Hari Om
    Quote Originally Posted by Znanna View Post
    Namaste,

    I certainly appreciate all the thoughtful insights (and quotations, too, hehe) posted by the members here. While some may post their comments more forcefully than others, it is the friction sometimes which brings comprehension to my unschooled mind which needs to be knocked upside the head at times.

    That said, courtesy and grace of form (in writing) is something I appreciate as well. Demeaning comments, IMO, serve no purpose save to serve ego, which seems a bit ironic on a forum of this type!

    Until today, I had no context for many of the apparently seminal debates regarding interpretation of Hindu Scriptures; I am grateful to all the posters for casting light and shadow where before no definition could be seen.
    Namaste,
    Very well said and a balanced view...

    There is good (sattva) in all things, especially in knowledge. For some, there are two sticks of knowledge and rubbing them vigorously brings the spark, then comes fire and insight.

    For others, some choose not to rub the sticks, but to use them as clubs.

    Sticks and rubbing bring fire and light which benefits the users and the viewers.
    Clubs bring black-&-blue marks and often people do not return to the scene of the crime.

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4
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    Re: Veda and Comprehension

    hariḥ om̐
    ~~~~~~


    I offered (some time ago) the following found in post 1 above.

    from the veda-s
    It is from the
    ṛg (rig) veda 1.164.39 :
    ṛco akṣare paramevyoman yasmin devā adhi viśve niṣeduḥ |
    yastan na veda kiṃ ṛcā kariṣyati ya it tad vidusta ime samāsate ||
    1.164.39
    the veda or ṛ́c'-s1, reside in the transcendental field or akshara, of the highest (parame) etheral Being (vyoman) in which reside all the adhi vishve deva's (or impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of nature), responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open (na veda) to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him?
    Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness (samasate or rest contented) , in That ( tat
    or bhuma, fullness-wholeness of life)

    from the
    upaniṣad-s
    We find notion again in the śvetāśvataropaniṣat (śvetāśvatara upaniṣad), chapter 4.8 . It says, of what use are the veda-s for him who does not know that indestructible, highest Being in whom all the devata and veda-s reside?

    from the tantra-s
    We find this one more time in a totally different school, within the kulacūḍāmaṇi2 tantra, first chapter 24th and 25th verses. It says,
    If you know me O' omniscient One, what is the point of scriptures and of sacrifice (sādhana is included in sacrifice and considered tapas)? If you do not know me O' omniscient One of what use are scriptures and sacrifice ?


    Why mention these 3? This total string is on comprehending our āgama-s and śastra-s. It suggests comprehension is predicated on one expanding their own comprehension apparatus ( one's consciousness ); Knowledge intake must be complemented by the ability to comprehend; both work in concert.

    To know, to really know means to be anchored in one's own Self ( my teacher called the home of all knowledge).
    This is the crux of the message that is given here. Limited knowledge of this and that ( size, shape, form, sciences, etc) are all well and good; Yet what is missing? The wholeness of this knowledge that brings it all together. This is the fullness of one's own Being. Know Being (Self) and you know the connection to every-thing that lies within it. Nothing is outside of it.

    श्रीशिवार्पणमस्तु
    śrī śivarpaṇastu


    1. ṛ́c = the collection of the c verses;to praise
    2.kulacūḍāmaṇi is one of the tantra’s of the kula school. This tantra is considered one of the orginals i.e. pure revelation.
    It is the conversation of śaktī and bhairava (śivaḥ). We can look at the tantra’s name as kula + cūḍāmaṇi. This for me says
    the jewel ( some say crest jewel) of totality (kula). Much more can be said on this at a later time i.e. where does the
    kulacūḍāmaṇi tantra fit in within the 92 tantra-s recognized, all coming from the mouth of śivaḥ as He appeared as svacchandanātha
    in the satyuga age.
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 November 2017 at 08:57 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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