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Thread: Are We Awake?

  1. #1
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    Are We Awake?

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste,

    We have talked in the past about various levels of consciousness
    • Waking or jagrat chetana
    • Dreaming or swapn chetana
    • Dreamless Sleep or sushupti chetana
    • Brahma Sakshtkara ( Self Realization) or turiyatit chetana (sustained turya)
    Yet if we look at this waking state we all experience, it too has varying degrees of wakefulness in it. I thought I would poke around at this and see what you think on this matter.

    In waking state of ones present consciousness of most people [ this does not include the jnanis , those possessed of the SELF ] experience object-centered wakefulness. One is fully given to the action at hand, and completely absorbed in that action.

    Let say you have a project that is due, and your full attention is on it's completion. At this point there is no SELF awareness, no self-referral, no conscious subjectivity, just the job of finishing the project. In this state "I" is completely absorbed in doing. This was the notion discussed before called abuddha: a or 'not' + bhu 'to become or exist' ; or budh ' to enlighten , to know'. So it is without the knowledge of enlightenment or SELF referral.

    Lets add a new level - this is called jagrat + swapn (some write svapna). It is commonly called day dreaming. A most interesting state. I think we all had this experience? We are working on that project, or watching TV or reading a book, kind of absorbed, then the mind shifts and one is mentally somewhere else.
    This somewhere else is a subjective experience, yes? We did not move or catch a train to a different location, yet in our mind, our imagination or thoughts, we are re-living an event, planning something, we're in the past or in the future, but we are no longer reading that book [ or working on the project ]. You are now traveling in the impressions that are stored in your mind i.e. You no longer are in a pure waking state [jagrat].

    Now can one go to another level - that of jagrat + sushupt while in waking state? That is, one is no longer engaged with their book or project nor are they traveling in their impressions; some also call these impressions memories, vasanas, some say samskara is the raw materials that are used here.

    This level of experience is most like but not equal to higher states of consciousness. One is still awake, in consciousness yet the objective world and the past impressions are not dominant. What makes this less then Supreme Consciousness, is the native is not fully functional, nor is s/he in a SELF referral state. They are neither enjoying or aware of this condition, yet still possessed of it. Some people with narcolepsy report this experience; not all some.

    I Mention this because people do have these experiences… As one unfolds more awareness, and the foundation of turya gets established, without flickering, then one will be able to see that there are various states of consciousness inside the 3 fundamental states of wake, dream and sleep.

    Has anyone had these experiences? That is, dreaming while awake, most have, but how about awake while asleep in sushupti?

    For those sadhu's this experience may come and go; for some its rewarding for others it seems unusual at first. I mention this as one experiences various gaps or sankrati also called sandhya, the junction points, one may experience turya or SELF or pure I (Aham) at these gaps more easily.

    What gaps ? The gap between wake and dream, dream and sleep, sleep and wake. Are there other gaps? Sure between night and day ( morning twilight some call Brahma mahurta), day and night or
    • Morning is Brahma Muhurta Sandhya
    • Noon for Vishnu Sandhya
    • Sunset called Mahesha Sandhya
    • Midnight called Kali or Turiya Sandhya
    Are there other gaps? Yes even between breaths, between the blink of an eye…. These sandhya which allow life to cycle through their motions yet are based in the foundation of pure consciousness that brings continuity to one's life experience. To experience this, this continuity this Bhuma , Fullness , is the SELF.

    Any additional insights are welcomed...



    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 06 November 2007 at 09:58 PM. Reason: spelling stuff...
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2

    Re: Are We Awake?

    This is a pretty intense set of questions.

    I cannot really say for certain I know everything about in-between states, but I do realize there is an interesting link between the "cracks in the fabric of time and space". Between the night and day, and between sleeping and waking...and in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, we are told that at each turn of the breath, the sacred awaits our interaction with it....

    Maybe it sounds scary but when I am driving my car sometimes I enter into this pattern of memorized routes that science has discovered is a forged pathway in the brain from repeated driving. When I stopped to realize I was driving on the freeway on automatic without thinking, it made me nervous at first, then I realized I was just reacting naturally without thought and have never been in a sleepy situation.

    It's about unitiing the body of light, wouldn't you say? So we can control our urges to slip in and out of dreams and waking, or control our rhythms at will? Bridging those cracks..

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    Talking Re: Are We Awake?

    Namaste LadyHydralisk & Yajvan


    I think that does junction points are there to remember us of the totality of the Self.

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    Re: Are We Awake?

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by LadyHydralisk View Post
    in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, we are told that at each turn of the breath, the sacred awaits our interaction with it...

    It's about unitiing the body of light, wouldn't you say? So we can control our urges to slip in and out of dreams and waking, or control our rhythms at will? Bridging those cracks..

    Namaste LH and NM,
    thanks for spending a few cycles on this. As you mention Vijnana Bharirva is a masterwork that gives us a beautiful list ( 112 of them) of techniques. Obviously the brilliance of Bhairava giving His insights to Devi is unmatched.

    Many of the approaches He offers are 'gap based' techniques. As Nuno implies in is post that the SELF is in these junction points, the totality.

    One notion that we can use as a example so one can picture a gap is simple. Lets say you are walking down a hall way that is dark. As you pass by someones room you see the light seeping out from the edges , top and bottom, sides of the door. A stark contrast to the darkness of the hall way. Like that as one goes from one state of consciousness to another, this Light of the SELF is there, in the gap.

    It is allowing yourself to be aware and to pay attention to this, that one begins to appreciate the value in the gap. First we have to know that there is something there, then we pay attention... like that one can practice this. And the grooming of this attention is the offer in Vijnana Bharirva.

    Meditation takes it to another level. To take advantage of the gaps in the day, the month ( that is the moon's cycles or tithi's), planets movement, etc. All create these gaps.

    What one finds is the wake-dream-sleep cycle is based upon the underlying stability of this consciousness that is found in the gap ( pure consciousness, some call pure awareness). This is the SELF, the Infinite.

    This is what the guru's and swami's and pundits ask us to consider and realize in our lives...stabilizing that gap level of consciousness as a normal mode of functioning, all day and night , all year, 7x24x365.

    This is the basis for Brahma Sakshtkara we call Self Realization or turiyatit chetana (sustained turya). I mention this beasue this is when one really is Awake! Fullness of Being.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 06 November 2007 at 10:35 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Are We Awake?

    Namaste Yajvan.

    All the first three states (waking, dreaming, dreamless quiet) are experienced as sub-states by everyone in the first two states but not in the third. Everyone has these sub-states and can be aware of it by focussing their consciousness suitably.

    We may also include the tiny gap between one thought and another, one heart beat and another, one surging pulse and another, one clock tick and another etc. in the examples of 'sandhya' you have given. 'sandhya' is the largest when the yugas meet in the 'yuga sandhi'.

    Matter and life manifest in systolic-diastolic cycles over the substratum of cosmic consciousness (which is Brahman) and hide it in different shades of darkness. The noise and shades of the tide and ebb of the wave of life has a parrallel in the subtle levels of mind and emotions and distract the Self from awareness of its own real nature.

    Physical life is often felt to be monotonous in the normal wave of everyday life. Life is in ripples when we have nothing to do and feel bored. When emotions swell, personal and social life is in rollers and cause destruction. When hurdles brought into effect by our 'vasanAs' upset the tidal flow of billowing waves of our desires and expectations, life takes the form of breakers and dissipates into froth and scum, so we may learn our lesson of getting beyond the waves and focussing on the Self.

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    Re: Are We Awake?

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namste saidevo, LH,NM.

    I mention this as the first post needed to be set to explain the experience I was afforded...

    During sleep I was given the opportunity to 'see' sleep, deep sleep on one side, and dream on the other side, and "I" was in the middle. I viewed both these sides and just looked. I did not want to get tugged back one way or the other. A rewarding experience. I have found one needs to remain innocent and not manipulate the situation as this fabric of consciousness is very delicate.

    I avoid talking about my own experiences, as in general people get puffed up chests and the ego inflates, when one bears their experiences, as if they solved the answer for cold fusion!

    Yet I thought this was worth the offering. A very simple, natural and rewarding experience that most any one can have and can be explained.

    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 07 September 2008 at 11:40 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Are We Awake?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    This is what the guru's and swami's and pundits ask us to consider and realize in our lives...stabilizing that gap level of consciousness as a normal mode of functioning, all day and night , all year, 7x24x365.

    pranams,
    A warm hello to All and Thank-you Yajvan for this very clear description .... not only this quoted, but every word.
    I find myself speechless now.

    Peace,
    Soul

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    Re: Are We Awake? Some Gaps

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    We have talked in the past about various levels of consciousness
    • Waking or jagrat chetana
    • Dreaming or swapn chetana
    • Dreamless Sleep or sushupti chetana
    • Brahma Sakshtkara ( Self Realization) or turiyatit chetana (sustained turya)
    What gaps ? The gap between wake and dream, dream and sleep, sleep and wake. Are there other gaps? Sure between night and day ( morning twilight some call Brahma mahurta), day and night or
    • Morning is Brahma Muhurta Sandhya
    • Noon for Vishnu Sandhya
    • Sunset called Mahesha Sandhya
    • Midnight called Kali or Turiya Sandhya
    Are there other gaps? Yes even between breaths, between the blink of an eye…. These sandhya which allow life to cycle through their motions yet are based in the foundation of pure consciousness that brings continuity to one's life experience. To experience this, this continuity this Bhuma , Fullness , is the SELF. Any additional insights are welcomed...
    Namaste,
    I was thinking about another gap. That of Narasimha. He himself is a example of the gap. Here's how this goes in the story of Hiranyakashipu, Prahlada, and Narasimha.

    Brahma offers a favor (boon) to Hiranyakashipu, in which Hiranyakashipu requests the following:

    Hiranyakashipu's reqest
    O my lord, O best of the givers of benediction, if you will kindly grant me the benediction I desire, please let me not meet death from any of the living entities created by you. Grant me that I not die within any residence or outside any residence, during the daytime or at night, nor on the ground or in the sky.
    Grant me that my death not be brought by any being other than those created by you, nor by any weapon, nor by any human being or animal. Grant me that I not meet death from any entity, living or nonliving. Grant me, further, that I not be killed by any demigod or demon or by any great snake from the lower planets. Since no one can kill you in the battlefield, you have no competitor. Therefore, grant me the benediction that I too may have no rival. Give me sole lordship over all the living entities and presiding deities, and give me all the glories obtained by that position.

    Prahlada
    Hiranyakashipu's son Prahlada, based upon earlier training by Narada, becomes a devoted follower of Vishnu, much to his father's disappointment and chagrin. Hiranyakashipu eventually becomes so angry at his son's devotion to Vishnu (who he sees as his mortal enemy) that he decides he must kill his son.

    Enter Narasimha
    He appears for the defense of Prahlada and moves to attack Hiranyakashipu. In order to kill Hiranyakashipu and not upset the boon given by Brahma the form of Narasimha was chosen.

    Hiranyakashipu could not be killed by human, deva or animal, Narasimha is neither one of these, as he is a form of Vishnu incarnate as a part-human, part-animal He is the gap!.

    He comes upon Hiranyakashipu at twilight (when it is neither day nor night, the gap!) on the threshold of a courtyard (neither indoors nor out, another gap). This threshold as many stories go, Narasimha manifests out from a column, neither inside or outside of the home. Just as you walk through a door, that in-between space, called a door jam, is neither outside or inside, and every time I do this I think of Narasimha.

    Narasimha then proceeds to put the demon on his lap (neither earth nor space). And using his nails (neither animate or inanimate) as weapons, he tears apart the demon.

    Gaps are all around....

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Are We Awake?

    Hi All...

    Beautiful... and the gap always IS...

    What about when the gap ceases to be a gap and it is , the awareness of consciousness, Oneness, continuous , behind all that we appear to be doing...

    The gap has increased to include all actions...

    Now for me, lately , the gap is reversed... There's a steady abidance and then there is a gap where identification happens , as a gap, then back to realization... well that's the past (lately) and there's no knowing about future..

    It takes a certain kind of vision or understanding to see the meanings of these stories....

    In a yoga forum I was on many people actually take the Bhagavad Gita story literally and so think it is ok to kill... I tried to explain that the story was an allegory... but many can't see it... They probably haven't seen the gap or been aware of it...

    That's ok. Glad I found this forum...

    Be in Peace,
    Soul

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    Re: Are We Awake?

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Soul View Post
    Hi All...

    Beautiful... and the gap always IS...

    What about when the gap ceases to be a gap and it is , the awareness of consciousness, Oneness, continuous , behind all that we appear to be doing...

    The gap has increased to include all actions...

    Now for me, lately , the gap is reversed... There's a steady abidance and then there is a gap where identification happens , as a gap, then back to realization... well that's the past (lately) and there's no knowing about future..

    It takes a certain kind of vision or understanding to see the meanings of these stories....

    In a yoga forum I was on many people actually take the Bhagavad Gita story literally and so think it is ok to kill... I tried to explain that the story was an allegory... but many can't see it... They probably haven't seen the gap or been aware of it...

    That's ok. Glad I found this forum... Be in Peace, Soul

    Namaste Soul,

    When the gap ceases then we have Reality 7x24x365. We have many names for this. A reasonable post on this http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822 .

    Yet when this gap becomes the 'norm' one can rejoice in Brahma Sakshtkara (Self Realization) or turiyatit chetana (sustained turya).
    This is the blessing, and sounds like you are making progress.


    re: allegory - yes I see your point. The rsi (rishi) has always used sanketa or symbols to tell the story of truth. In fact even the devata do not like to be called by their direct name like Indra. We find His name is Indha, and as the Kurcha Brahmana suggest they (the devata) prefer indirect names.

    If one looks to another Upanishad (Aitareya) we see Indra as Idandra and again prefers the indirect name of Indra. This Idandra is IT Seeing [Idam or Brahman] And this Idaa also = praise, so Idana is the act of Praising. Not only is Idandra (Indra) IT Seeing, but also praising.

    Here's a post for your consideration on an example of symbols regarding birds: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2049

    And this post helps understand the significance of certain numbers we see ( 4, 10, 1000, etc) , cows educating sadhus with the help of birds and fire, etc. http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...77&postcount=6

    perhaps you will find it of interest.


    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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