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Thread: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

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    Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste,

    Nijashuddhi is ones impurity. Why is it that we as human beings are considered Divine, yet we [ i ] see so many blemishes in our selves and the radiance of the Divine must be mined, like gold or diamonds?

    Why is it that this SELF simply does not shine forth? This question is posed in the 9th karika of the Spandakarika¹.

    This is considered an important agama. If you study the Siva Sutras, then this book is a complementary adjunct to that knowledge. The 3 Awakenings of the Siva Sutras are posted on HDF for your consideration: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2078

    Nijashuddhi - ones own impurity is how the 9th karika starts off. This asuddhi is impurity , yet what is meant is mala. Mala मल is considered dirt , filth , dust , yet we are directed to consider mala as a limiting condition. Just as one has dirt and dust on the windshield of a car, it can be wiped off. The muni says there are 3 kinds of significant malas.
    • Anava mala
    • Mayiya mala
    • Karma mala
    I thought to comment on the first one (other malas if there is interest).
    This anava mala is intriguing to me. This limitation pertains to aNu अणु or fine , minute , atomic. It points to the individual jiva.

    Think of it. The Infinite now thinks it is contained in a body with length, width, height and is constrained to a boundary. The boundless constrained to a boundary!

    This limitation sets the stage for the other two mala. Think of yourself. You get to go where you wish, make selections about your life, go here and there on vacations. Then all of a sudden you are confined to a room (~ like a jail) that is just 3 meters by 3 meters and 4 meters in height. What would be your experience? That of limitation, of the 'blemish' of constraint. What would you want to do?

    Get out is the order of the day , yes? Perhaps our desires then is the Supreme's way of knocking at the door to say it is time to get out. Time to return to the Infinite Nature of the SELF that is home, that is, My Natural State.

    It has been said, all desires in the final analysis is the desire for the Infinite; to experience something more then the most, that will satisfy the mind. That is why no-one desire tends to crunch ones thirst for any period of time… the wise say finite things do not contain happiness². So we continue to look for that experience that is full in itself and will make one stop looking.

    It starts with the constraint of the infinite, the anava mala. Once we know this then, it allows us to move forward. It allows us to say, these desires are really natural and some [ sadhus, mumuksha, yogis and yoginis] have directed them to the pursuit of samvit [Supreme Consciousness].

    We have begun to break the code! A crack in the mala मल, and the light, prakash [ pra = 'forth' + kAsh 'to shine ] starts streaming though.



    1. This Spandakarika has multiple commentaries, Yet I am reading the one by Ksemaraja. The author ( composer) is Vasugupta-ji . Some may take issue and say Kallata was the author of the Spandakarika… I will leave that to the experts other then myself.

    2. Nalpe sukham asti - 'finite things do not contain happiness' - rishi Sanatkumara, Chandogya Upanishad [ I think!]


    ॐनमःिशवाय

    pranams
    Last edited by yajvan; 24 November 2007 at 05:58 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~


    Nijashuddhi - ones own impurity is how the 9th karika starts off. This asuddhi is impurity , yet what is meant is mala. Mala मल is considered dirt , filth , dust , yet we are directed to consider mala as a limiting condition. Just as one has dirt and dust on the windshield of a car, it can be wiped off.
    Namaste,

    the last verse or karika 9 dealt with the impurities we as humans encounter. Now we go to karika 10 and a question is asked...

    What happens when the limited, empirical individual is dissolved? (That is ignorance is dissolved)What is left in the person is the Supreme. If this Supreme is infinte perfect silence, the perfect Absolute, what happens to the person? Does s/he become like the wave-less ocean? Where before the native is the wave ( activity within the relative field of life) now he/she is at the Universal status, is s/he now devoid of activity?

    This is a most excellent and profound question. We know the Absolute to be perfect, transcendent, some say perfect Silence, perfect Being. If this is the status of the individual does s/he then too become just stillness, complete, but with no action?

    The 10th karika informs us of the following:

    Tadāsyākrtrimo dharmo jnatvakartrtvalaksanah|
    yatas tadepsitam sarvam jānati ca karoti ca ||

    Then will flash forth his innate nature characterized by cognition and activity, by which he ( the native) then knows and does all that is desired ( by the native).

    This insight is far reaching and answers some questions many have of the status and actions of the sadhu. It says then at the time of entrance into that Supreme state, all the native desired to know or do at the time of the entering the Supreme is now afforded to him/her.

    I find this a very unique state of affairs... what does the native desire most at that time? Swami Laksmanjoo reviews some of these conditions as how kundalini manifests or reveals itself fully in the native.


    If there is interest we can review...

    ॐनमःिशवाय

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Spanda-karikas : karika 17

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste,

    In another post we were discussing the knots one finds along the path to moksha http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=19936&postcount=28

    I wrote, the knot in the heart, this hṛdayagranthi, is broken by the perception of the Supreme, tasmin dṛṣhe parātpare.

    Rajalakshmi offered the definition of the 3 knots
    The three knots are the knot of ignorance, knot of passion and knot of karma.
    These knots are considered granthi (ग्रन्थि) - a knot , tie , knot of a cord , knot tied in the end of a garment for keeping money; it is also the joint of a reed or cane; joint of the body.

    I also wrote, these gaps can also be considered the consciousness-counterpart of sadhyā (junction , juncture) we talk about between day and night ( twilight) and night and day (dawn).These junction points, the gaps, granthi are seen in the AM, mid-day, PM and even one at mid-night.
    They can be considered gaps, like a joint, the conjoining point or junction. Like that, the gap between one state of consciounsess and other as in wake-dream-sleep states, one may find turiya there.


    So the above sets the audit trail to offer karika 17 from the Spandakarikas¹, as I thought it was most germane to the conversation:

    Tasyopalabhi satata tripadāvyabhicāriī |
    nitya syāt suprabuddhasya tadādyante parasya tu ||

    The fully enlightened has always and incessantly the undeviating knowledge of the SELF in all 3 states;
    The other one has it only at the begining and ending of each state.

    That is, the fully-awakened has the upalabdhi or obtainment , acquisition , gain with the SELF at all times, during wake-dream and sleep, without fail.

    Yet 'the other one' has it that the beginning and ending of each state.
    Who is this 'other one'? The sadhu who is not fully realized Being, the SELF. He/she finds it at the sadhyā, the gaps, at the granthi of the 3 states of consciousness wake-dream-sleep.

    So glimpses of this turya can be had, at these junctions, yet one needs to know first, that this is there. To the one in avidya, these junctions pass by with out notice.

    I liken these gaps to one waking down a dark hall way with doors on each side. As one looks to a door the light seaps out from around the door, at the junctions of the door frame and the hall way. Like that, this turya seeps out (as a metaphor) at the granthi, gaps, sadhyā of wake-dream-sleep.

    pranams

    1. Spanda-karikas - The Divine Pulsation - translated to english by Jaideva Singh. These karikas are to work hand-and-hand with the siva sutras. The original composition is attributed to Vasugupta muni. It is interesting to note just as the siva sutras has 3 sections , so too the spanda karikas follow suit with 3 nihsyandas also.
    Last edited by yajvan; 19 January 2008 at 06:38 PM. Reason: re-arranged paragraphs for comprehension
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Namaste Yajvan,

    It is maybe worth mentioning that it is possible to give a much more literal interpretation to the 3 granthis, as being literally existing constrictions, knots blocking the flow of the prana, these granthis are being caused by the natural twining of ida and pingala nadi around the sushummna occuring at certain places.
    As long as these constrictions are present neither the pranashakti nor the hamsapurusha nor the urdvha shakti can move by their or one´s own Volition.

    Indeed "we" are not even aware of ourselves, not aware of these triple forces and of the form we ourselve assume in our own body (as kundalini etc)

    Being unable to move because of the constrictions, we remain bound individuals unless we clean away the impurities in the nadis, pierce the granthis, and remove the stale pranas by the practice of Yoga and become able to move in inner space (Khecara)
    Please note there is indeed nothing symbolic there is nothing philosophical implied, i am talking about a movement that exist as real as your own breath or heartbeat only on a sukshma level.

    This vital force as well as mind and volition are not intellectual concepts only, but these aspects of the self exist in a more distinct literal way then most would suspect and are located in the upper middle and lower parts of the body and their energies are concentrated in the central channel (sushumna) in the three locations parted by the granthis.

    Much content can be interpreted in a more literal way than often done i belive sometimes this emphasis on mental concepts and symbolic interpretations is done deliberately by some of teachers, to hide some practical aspects that are considered dangerous or unhealthy for the common person to even know about.

    In my opinion not only acquiring premature knowledge about practical literal yoga applications has its dangers but also this bias towards intellectual symbolic knowledge and silence about the literal and practical yoga, has some unhealthy aspects. It can lead one far away from the actual meaning of the content of the shastras. As Guru Gorakhnath said:

    "One day the cat will come and eat the parrot."

    Pranams
    Mahahradanatha

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    Much content can be interpreted in a more literal way than often done i believe sometimes this emphasis on mental concepts and symbolic interpretations is done deliberately by some of teachers, to hide some practical aspects that are considered dangerous or unhealthy for the common person to even know about.

    In my opinion not only acquiring premature knowledge about practical literal yoga applications has its dangers but also this bias towards intellectual symbolic knowledge and silence about the literal and practical yoga, has some unhealthy aspects. It can lead one far away from the actual meaning of the content of the shastras. As Guru Gorakhnath said:
    Pranams
    Namaste Mahahradanatha,
    a very favorable post... please add more. Yes I am aware of the knots that are resident in many. For convenience, some just call this stress. But you are correct, we can be very specific here.

    Please feel free to lead the way on this matter... I am encouraged to read your next post on this.

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Well what should i add? This is a huge topic with many ramifications. The jiva when it moves into a body seems to get intermingled with the same and he mounts the prana so that what affects the body affects the mind affects the prana affects the state of the jiva.

    That way the three states ,waking, dream ,and deep sleep are not only mental states but located in the body. If the granthis parting these states are loosened or pierced one can assume the states by volition, retaining awareness.

    Maybe it is relevant to add that i consider these states to be always present at the same time, in waking state there are parts of oneself that are dreaming and other parts of the self that are even in deep sleep (regulating automatic body functions)
    This is true for the other states also, for instance in the dream state there are parts of consciousness that are awake-aware of the dream happening.

    According to the preponderance of a state consciousness shifts location in the central nadi.

    By piercing or loosening the granthis upward movement of prana inside the sushummna can begin which will also mean that the three states intermingle which will result in becoming aware of the fact that the three states are always occuring at the same time.

    No mental functions implied or used here, knowledge and spiritual upliftment of the jiva occurs only by volition, nadishuddhi and movement of prana and its impact on the state of the jiva.

    In this case a lot of what is mentionend in the shastras pertaining to prana and apana etc. is not only physical inhalation or exhalation but oszillation of prana in the central channel, the location of the dvadashanta in this case is not the physical air located in 12 measures distance from the nose but it is the subtle prana situated 12 measures above the head where bhairava is located and realised after the skull is pierced open and the jiva is located there.
    The idea that Bhairava can be realised by becoming aware of the physical breath leaves out an important part of the process which is, that by becoming aware of the physical breath one becomes aware that the important oscillation is in the central channel between the state of bhairava and the state of shakti in muladhara (the oszillation between the hridaya and the outer dvadashanta that is often emphasized by authorities on "kashmir shaivaism" is just a step that maybe can lead to the inner experience of the flow of subtle prana in the body)

    Pranams
    Mahahrdanatha
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 21 January 2008 at 02:26 PM.

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    I have come to realize that things or beings are subjective mental projections. If I see a man as a devil, there must be evil inside me.

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Namaste Yajvan
    Namaste Soham

    Let me elaborate on my last post by adding a comment to the lines of the Vijnana Bhairava that you commented on in this thread:

    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2323

    24 Shri devi uvAca
    Devadeva trishulAnka kapAlakrtabhushana..

    Which you translated as:

    "Sri Devi asks Shiva [Bhairava],
    O God Of gods ( some like to write Lord of Lords as the text reads deva-deva), whose emblem is the trident (trisulanka)..."

    It seems that on his way to Hindudharmaforums Lord Bhairava lost one of the emblems the skullbowl he carried, i will take the liberty and reinvest him with this important emblem.

    This sloka will then translate as.... carrying the trishula and the skull(bowl)(kapAla)

    Now this karika is about the realisation of Paradevi in unison with Bhairava.

    I will explain where this union will take place and what the emblem of trishula and skullbowl have to do with the yoga of the subtle pranas.

    This state aimend at is called in this verse : "digdeshakAlasunya" that means it is a state free from time space and direction.

    It is further said said that Paradevi is the mouth i.e. door or entrance to that experience or state of mind, "kair upayair mukham tasya parA devi katham bhavet."

    As i have mentioned in my last posting, the states of consciousness are located in ones own (subtle) body in the chakra system and the granthis divide them.

    We are taught in these slokas how to penetrate these divison in our own body with the help of the devis and devas that reside in our own body.

    Becoming acquainted with the devas in our own body allows us to participate in the universal experience also. That is possible because of the non-difference between the pinda and brahmanda which is postulated in the tantras and in the tradition of the mahAsiddhas.

    The devi located in the body is superior middling and low according to where she is situated and is given different names according to sampradaya. In nath parAmpara it is urdhva, madhya, adhah shakti in trika kaula sampradaya (part of what is commonly called "kashmir shaivaism" by most scholars) this devi is known to manifest as: para parApara and apara devi.

    Now , in these slokas it is said that the text is concerned with the knowledge of para devi, she is situated in the uppermost part of the body and thus provides the subtle entrance (mukham) to states beyond the body.

    And so we can project conciousness with the help of the instructions in these slokas, beyond time space and other limitations the jiva is normally subjected to when embodied, and thus imprisoned by the cage and network (jala) of nadis and granthis.

    The most important instruments and the object of this method of liberation from the network are already mentioned in the first slokas introducing us into the subject bythe question of devi to bhairava (slokas 22-23) but upto now the object of this instrument, was unavailable to HDF due to its droppage on the way here (the skull).

    Luckily and to the dismal of the orthodox- Bhairava now comes here, carrying this ugly cup, chopped of brahmas head.

    The trishula in this context, might be considered,as a symbol of the central channel with the main nadis ida and pingala, carrying the sun and moon pranas, inside them. They are located at both sides of the central channel.

    This meeting of the 3 nadis symbolised by the trishula, occurs at each of the granthis, the rudra granthi in the brain is of main importance here, because this karika refers to the passage of paradevi.

    When the rudra granthi in the brain region, is pierced by prana, the doorway of paradevi (mukham), at the top of the skull, can be made to open up.

    So what has to be applied in Yoga is the force of Bhairavas trishula: the sun and moon prana and the prana in the central channel these are used to pierce through the granthis and open the pathway , and the object to which it is applied is ones own skull, which is pierced to reach the upper region, the inner dvadashanta, above the head region , beyond the satchakras, where the supreme state is located (digdeshakalasunya) , the state beyond fourth state.

    next sloka says:
    urdhve prAno hy adho jivo visargAtma paroccaret
    utpattidvitayastAhne bharanAd bharita sthitih

    Usually this karika in modern kashmir shaivaism is apparently not translated literally, and "adho jivo" (lower jiva) is interpreted as meaning physical inbreath and urdhve prAno (upper lifeforce) to mean physical outgoing breath, and subsequently the reader is made to assume that by watching the ending points of his physical breath he can achieve the supreme feat of realising Bhairavi and Bhairava in union.

    In our little journey into the world of the yoga of the subtle body, we do not need to exercise our mind too much and can translate "adho jivo" literally , that is as "the Jiva located at the lower region" of the body and "urdhve prano", as the prana located in the upper region (of the body).

    Now the karika 24 is not an instruction to become aware of the physical breath anymore , but of the subtle breath.
    The gradual process is to become aware of the Prana of the uper region above the rudra granthi (place of the upper
    subtle male lunar bindu of the visarga) and to unite with, or become aware of the polar force, the jiva located at the distant end of the central channel, below the brahma granthi.

    Here the jiva has the the form of the kundalini shakti, represented by the lower, the female solar bindu of the visarga here she is called the "adho jivo", the self that is situated in the lower region.

    So it is said in the sloka if we keep our attention fixed on these two points (the visarga : "visargAtma paroccaret") or polarities in the meru danda, the central channel, we can cause the state of Union of Bhairavi and Bhairava to emerge.

    This is a very complicated and dangerous process since loosening of the granthis can result in the death of the physical body, maybe that is the reason why it is has become hidden behind awkward translations and deluding commentaries.

    But i have no fear here and belive that it should be made known that never can a jiva attain to the state of shiva just by watching the physical breath That such practices are useful for some other end, or for preparing the sadhak to become mindful of the inner breath is another question.

    Prerequsite for appreciating tantric shastras is that, by descent of the urdhva shakti, through anugraha of Guru, Devi or Shiva and the subsequent initial piercing or loosening of the granthis insight spontaneously occurs out of ones own self, (sahaja) not by mental reflection.

    In this path of the siddhas, unlike other paths, experience should come earlier - intellectual reflections later.

    Without shuddhi of the physical and subtle organism,also the capability of intellectual understanding is sadly limited, therefore a theoretical study of kaula shastras without anugraha and nadi shuddhi can be very frustrating at times.

    If there is interest, please comment, i will then give some more explanations on these lines on the next karikas because they describe details of the process in a more elaborate way.

    pranams

    Mahahradanatha

    "madhya sakti prabodhena
    adhah shakti nikuncanAt
    Urdhva shakti nipAtena prApyate paramam padam."

    "Awakening of the Madhyashakti
    contraction of the Adhashakti
    and descent of the urdhvashakti
    lead to the supreme goal."

    Siddha siddhanta Paddhati
    Gorakhnatha
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 23 January 2008 at 10:57 AM.

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    If there is interest, please comment, i will then give some more explanations on these lines on the next karikas because they describe details of the process in a more elaborate way.

    pranams

    Mahahradanatha

    "madhya sakti prabodhena
    adhah shakti nikuncanAt
    Urdhva shakti nipAtena prApyate paramam padam."

    "Awakening of the Madhyashakti
    contraction of the Adhashakti
    and descent of the urdhvashakti
    lead to the supreme goal."

    Siddha siddhanta Paddhati
    Gorakhnatha
    Namaste MahaHrada
    I am in hopes you are still reading these posts?

    Perhaps if you have an opinion on dvAdaSAnta, and its proper location, as this fits into visarga quite nicely, this too will help in the conversation.

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Spanda-karikas and Nijashuddhi

    Namaste Yajvan,

    I think there are several types of dvAdAshanta, one must judge according to the context, whether one specific, or maybe even several interpretations at once are feasible.

    We do have some clues from within what sampradaya the Vijnanabhairava originally arose, it must have been close to the siddhas, yogis and maybe natha parampara, but one cannot know for shure, apparently its original Siddha propounders shared some views with the later kashmiri authors that you where citing, who commented on this text, but occasionally there is some ambiguity, and also differences in approach that even affect the current translations available..

    Generally it can be said regarding dvadashanta there are at least 4 important locations mentionend that can all be called correct.

    Regarding the mundane breath we have the dvAdAshanta located 12 finger breadth (3 hands length without the thumbs) outside the body,measuring is started from the tip of the nose, that dvadashanta is the point of the average elongation of a normal outbreath, this location is the bahya dvAdAshanta)

    Then the same distance in downward movement, the inbreath, is measured downward to a location of 3 Hands width distance, this is the location of the inner dvadashanta, the distance the average mundane inbreath is traveling into the body. (antara dvadashanta)

    Then we have the internal dvadashanta that is marking the distance the internal/subtle prana/ breath in the susummna nadi is able travel in the case of a person who has achieved the state of atmavyapti, which is measured with three hands starting from the bhrumadhya between the eyebrows, measured upwards on the skull, ending at the midpoint of the skull, this place is the urdhva dvadasanta it is also called brahmarandhra or tenth door/opening since it is like the other nine openings of the body also an opening, where prana can exit the body.

    This is also the place of location of the ParAkasha. (one of the 5 Vyomas or voids)

    "Above the forehead there is a place called DvAdashAnta,
    where the top of the skull ends and two fingers beyond the head, there
    is what is called the supreme ether (ParAkasha)"
    Svacchandasamgraha

    The next dvadashanta is the sahasrara chakra located twelve finger breadth distance above the brahmarandhra, this is the distance breath or prana can travel upward in the case of a person who has achievd shivavyapti.

    This dvAdAshanta exists beyond another set of a measure of 12 , these 12 are the 6 chakras (from muladhara to ajna) the 3 granthis (Brahma Vishnu and Rudragranthi) and the 3 mandalas of the three sources of light (agni=fire surya= sun and soma= moon) 6+3+3 = 12 subtle body measures.

    The dvAdAshanta measured from the Bhrumadhya is an important Location for the practice of Nadavedha the piercing by inner unstruck sound, since there are very subtle 9 stages of inner sound that reverberate from the Ajna upwards and this Nada forms a vibrant flame like twirl passing out and beyond the skull aperture moving on its way upward through nine subtle chakras.

    (Reference to a "stringed instrument" in the context of this interpretation equals the string of the subtle vajra nadi inside the susummna. the sound of this instrument is the unstruck sound of kundalini as vak devi/matrika shakti, to which the yogi can listen when the senses turn inward and Kundalini/Prana straightens/ erects from the crooked form of mundane breath to the upright prana flowing into the median way of the susummna)

    Once the nada and the prana push from bhrumadhya up through the skull the consciouness moves from atmavyapti to shivavyapti i.e from one dvadashanta to the next. This is also called a flame, because it is wavelike in character.

    In this practice the Kundalini awakens in the bhrumadhya and goes right up to the final resting place the highest dvadashanta. This path of the shambhava siddhas is a movement of one time twelve finger breadth distance in the body and another twelve measures distance out of the body. (a flame like protrusion of Bindu-nada above the head)

    But without deha shuddhi, bhuta shuddi, and chitta shuddhi the jiva/prana of the mundane person that has not transcend the individual self, will only move in a crooked or curled mundane way, oscllating two ways one between ida and pingala nadi, (sun and moon) and also the mind will be following the breath movement of outward and inward breath and that way osciallating between the mundane antara and bahya dvadashanta.

    These Polarities are symbolised by the visarga where one bindu has the nature of the sun and the other of the moon, the polarities exist in the body in both horizontal and vertical axis and when in equilbrium (sama) it will effect the smooth transition from mundane breath to internal breath/prana.

    Untieying and loosen the granthis cleaning and widening and making the nadis flexible would be the preliminary steps towards applying some of the techniques that serve to align the movement of the subtle prana and bindu with the mundane breath.

    It is said that to cause the curled up or crooked kundalini to become erect one has to assume a straight posture with a mind that is stilled and breath that is even.

    Mundane breath and mind has to become stilled and even and prana must not allowed to move out through the nine mundane openings, this is achieved by turning the mind inward in samadhi, than breath/prana will turn erect by its own in an effortless way, it is said and eject by the tenth openingwithout force.

    Too much and too early application of force on the prana by bandhas and kriyas and mind activity on its own, without deha, nadi, chitta shuddhi may be detrimental to progress and health, so practice may not be advisable, but nonetheless i consider it important to know that there exist several subtle levels of interpretation of texts like the Vijnana Bhairava and one should not be satisfied intellectually with one singular approach.

    pranams

    MahaHrada
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 27 April 2008 at 09:32 AM.

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