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Thread: Aren't alcohol,coffee,tea forbidden for a vaishnava?

  1. #1
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    Aren't alcohol,coffee,tea forbidden for a vaishnava?

    Namaste all.
    This topic isn't about only ISKCON.It is about all Vaishnavism.So I will not post this in the ISKCON forum.
    First please read http://www.harekrsna.com/practice/4r...toxication.htm
    My question is:is true that drugs like coffee,tea,alcohol are forbidden only in ISKCON and not in all vaishnava tradition?
    What about Sri Vaishnavism?

    I never drink coffee,tea,alcohol ecc because as far as I know a vaishnava is not allowed to drink these things.Are there references in the scriptures?

    Regards,
    Orlando.

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    I take tea and I dont think it is mentioned in Srivaishnavam about this.

    If you are a strict Srivaishnavite, you have to cook your own food, are not supposed to eat in hotels, not consume many food items like onion, garlic etc. I dont attach too much importance to the hotel thing, but I do not take eggs, meat, onions and garlic under any circumstances. Alcohol, cigars, tobacco etc are considered "bigger" sins and never even go near them!!

    Tea and Coffee are quite OK in my opinion (in moderation).
    Om namO nArAyaNAya
    --------
    srIman nArAyaNa caranau caranam prapadye srImate nArAyaNAya namaha
    --------
    sarva-dharmAn parityajna mAm Ekam saranam vraja
    aham tvan sarva- papebhyo moksayisyAmi ma suchah

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    Namaste,

    I do not have any scriptural proofs, but as i know alcohol is prohibited for all Vaishnavas while tea and coffee aren't.

    One of my deshikas was a Shrivaishnava brahmana closely related to Shri Venkateshvara cult, and a disciple of Shri Ranganatha (a friend and co-disciple of Shri Krishnamacharya). He never took any alcohol or meat (though he was a Shakta as well), but drank tea and coffee and ate onion.

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    Coffee and Tea are relatively new, hence has no place in scriptures.

    I can say Coffee and Tea is not banned in scriptures for such material came up later. Insisting Coffee and tea usage is void on the basis of scriptures is same as trying to establish usage of computer and cellular phones as void on the basis of scriptures.

    However, perceptors to whom coffee and tea was introduced gave different opinions. I remember Ramana Maharishi (not a vaishnav) was fond of Coffee. Many other perceptors avoided it for these two things has addictive effect.

    Every intake that can lead to addictiveness should be avoided, hence many perceptors avoid. We falling in line with perceptors should not take coffee and tea.

    Alcohol, there is no question, it is fully banned. We have texts that declares, buying selling and taking alcohol should be avoided. Of course, few people still advice alcohol, but seeing their practise one can know, it is not meant for Vaishnavs

    As the question directly pertains to Srivaishnavism, I answered it within its scope

    On practical point of view, comparison of coffee and tea with alcohol does not match as alcohol has direct explicit and immediate damage where in science is still debating on the ill and good effects of coffee and tea.

    Taking a moderate stand point, I can say, alcohol should be avoided based on scripture and as far as coffee and tea is concerned, it is left to you to decide, taking or abstaining both are not against scriptures

    Jai shree krishna
    Last edited by ramkish42; 05 May 2006 at 04:57 PM.

  5. #5
    I would assume that it would depend on the particular Vaishnava tradition. I do know that ISKCON recommends to abstain from caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, and other mind-altering drugs and they require it for those living in the temples. I don't know about other Vaishnava traditions. I brought this subject up to one Vaishnava pujari I know and he stated that he was unable to find anywhere in the scriptures where it said not to take intoxicants. He did say that marijuana shouldn't be used but was unable to provide a reference.

    Good luck finding the answer. I would recommend simply using your own judgment if you don't find it in the scriptures or relevant readings. On the other hand, if you are going to take intoxicants (regardless of tradition), it is only common sense to keep it in moderation and not become an addict.

    Namaskaar. ~BYS~

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    On practical point of view, comparison of coffee and tea with alcohol does not match as alcohol has direct explicit and immediate damage where in science is still debating on the ill and good effects of coffee and tea.

    Taking a moderate stand point, I can say, alcohol should be avoided based on scripture and as far as coffee and tea is concerned, it is left to you to decide, taking or abstaining both are not against scriptures

    Jai shree krishna
    First off, I would like to see where alcohol is prohibited in scriptures. Many people from many different traditions frown on the consumption of alcohol but I have yet to see a reference from a shastra stating that alcohol is prohibited. I would like someone to please provide such reference if at all possible since so many people claim that there is a reference there.

    Second, I am curious to know how alcohol "has direct explicit and immediate damage." Everyone knows that a moderate amount of alcohol causes mind-altering effects but in a mild way and everyone knows that excessive consumption of alcohol can lead to health problems as well as addiction. However, it sounds to me that you are saying that from the first sip of alcohol, it is damaging your health. I'd like to see some evidence of that because that is quite new to me. ~BYS~

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    On practical point of view, comparison of coffee and tea with alcohol does not match as alcohol has direct explicit and immediate damage where in science is still debating on the ill and good effects of coffee and tea.
    Taking a moderate stand point, I can say, alcohol should be avoided based on scripture and as far as coffee and tea is concerned, it is left to you to decide, taking or abstaining both are not against scriptures
    As per medical science, alcohol in small amounts is good for health, especially red dry wines taken with food. Of course, any excess in alcohol is damageful for health.

    It should be avoided by Vaishnavas on the basis of their scriptures. There is no need to twist facts and put alcohol as a poison which has "immediate danage"

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    Namaste all.
    Please read Srimad Bhagavad-Gita,Chapter 17:
    7.Even the food each person prefers is of three kinds, according to the three modes of material nature. The same is true of sacrifices, austerities and charity. Now hear of the distinctions between them.
    8.Foods dear to those in the mode of goodness increase the duration of life, purify one's existence and give strength, health, happiness and satisfaction. Such foods are juicy, fatty, wholesome, and pleasing to the heart.
    9.Foods that are too bitter, too sour, salty, hot, pungent, dry and burning are dear to those in the mode of passion. Such foods cause distress, misery and disease.
    10.Food prepared more than three hours before being eaten, food that is tasteless, decomposed and putrid, and food consisting of remnants and untouchable things is dear to those in the mode of darkness.


    Of course coffee,tea,wine etc are rajasic or tamasic things.These things have the capacity to stimulate rajasa-taamasa attributes. A person who aspires for sattvik nature must reject these things.

    Regards,
    Orlando.

  9. #9
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    Ramayana:

    anaarya iti maamaaryaaH putravikraayikam dhruvam || 2-12-78
    dhikkarishhyanti rathyaasu suraapam braahmaNam yathaa |


    Venerable people gathered in the streets will reproach me who has sold away my son, saying that I am as bad as a brahmana who drinks wine .It is certain.

    This is Dasharata's lamenting to Kaikeyi when she asked for the boons.

    For a Brahmana, alcoholism is considered one of the five major sins in Dharmashastra. For the rest, it is amongst the lesser sins, and is not very significant for a shudra. Since these classes of castes are only spiritual stages, one can be certain that spirituality and alcoholism are incompatible.

    Can any devotee of Krishna dare to get himself intoxicated? Never! Alcohol, per se is not bad, if used as medcine or something useful. Any consumption of alcohol for deriving pleasure(the so called pleasure which kills the body over a long time) will destroy spirituality. When you cannot even teach your senses to behave properly, how would you teach yourself to attain God?
    Om namO nArAyaNAya
    --------
    srIman nArAyaNa caranau caranam prapadye srImate nArAyaNAya namaha
    --------
    sarva-dharmAn parityajna mAm Ekam saranam vraja
    aham tvan sarva- papebhyo moksayisyAmi ma suchah

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram
    For a Brahmana, alcoholism is considered one of the five major sins in Dharmashastra. For the rest, it is amongst the lesser sins, and is not very significant for a shudra. Since these classes of castes are only spiritual stages, one can be certain that spirituality and alcoholism are incompatible.
    Definitely U are right, alcoholism is incompatible with spirituality (this doesn't mean that an alcoholic cannot become a devotee or a jnani, but that a devotee and jnani will never become an alcoholic).

    What is alcoholism? As per dictionary, "an addiction to the consumption of alcoholic liquor or the mental illness and compulsive behavior resulting from alcohol dependency."

    This is NOT identic or even similar to usage of alcohol (even for pleasure), since alcoholism clearly is addiction or dependance (psycological and especially physical).

    Alcoholism is verily condemned and cannot be accepted as anything good, since it is a clear limitation of one's own freedom and thus is a sign of degradation of consciousness.

    Spiritual person if he takes alcohol (he may or may not take) never gets dependant upon it. And the very thing whether one is allowed to take alcohol in spiritual path is judged by Scriptures of his sampradaya. Thus, for Vaishnavas it is prohibited, while for Shaktas — prescribed (i mean its use in upasana and not for entertainment, which is allowed but not obligatory).

    In is said in Shruti: "Verily for the one who knows This, there is nothing which is not a food." (Chandogyopanishad, V.2.1).

    Any kind of dependance is spiritually harmful unless it is dependance upon the Highest Being (Paramadevata). As Agamas say, usage of alcohol for the sake of God is a punya, while for the sake of ego is a sin (and this is true for ANY action).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram
    Can any devotee of Krishna dare to get himself intoxicated? Never! Alcohol, per se is not bad, if used as medcine or something useful. Any consumption of alcohol for deriving pleasure (the so called pleasure which kills the body over a long time) will destroy spirituality. When you cannot even teach your senses to behave properly, how would you teach yourself to attain God?
    The proper reason for a Vaishnava to abstain from alcohol is not this arguement (which is logically inaccurate) but the prescriptions of Vaishnava Agamas and the teaching of Masters.

    But, one who controls his senses can easly drink alcohol without any "destruction of spirituality". What is the value of a "spirituality" which can be that easily destroyed!? When a Yogi drinks, it is amrita-pana. When a pashu drinks, that is visha-pana. Difference is in bhAva and not in a substance which is consumed.

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