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Thread: Aren't alcohol,coffee,tea forbidden for a vaishnava?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthSeeker
    Indra is a technical term Satay. Indra is not a deva somwhere in the sky above, Indra is the Yogi who has controlled his "indriyas" and has a pure mind. Indra is hence also called the abimani devata for the mind.
    Indra is not a demigod or something somewhere in the sky. A Yogi who has conquered his mind and senses is called Indra. His apsaras and the soma are the great siddhis that can be enjoyed by the Yogi(optionally). A perfected Karma Yogi is called Indra. Can you now guess what Draupadi is and why she was shared by five husbands? Clue: Arjuna is Indra.
    Literally reading the vedas, people have polluted it of the vital meaning.
    This becomes a description of Kaula-yogi, who perceives the world as Divine and enjoys Shakti-tattva through women and wine

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna
    This is not a proper thread for such discussion.

    If U are interested to KNOW, please read the basic texts of Kashmiri Shaivism, which represent the view of supreme Advaita (Paradvaita). Writings of some scholars also may be useful, for example of B.N.Pandit and Mark Dyczkowsky. The basic philosophy stuff is existing as Pratyabhijna and Spanda systems, in addition to these U may see Krama, Kula and Trika.

    Shaiva Monism is perfectly based on Agamic Shruti and tarka (logic).
    It is not a "realism" as such, for it recognizes everything as a manifestation of One Consciousness, non-separate from It. Only Consciousness is REAL, but the world is not an "illusion" in a manner of Shankara's advaita. It is God Himself who is acting by 5 powers in his own delight, and not some kind of outer entity like Maya or Prakriti which is thought of as separate from Brahman or Purusha. Paradvaita is the only actual Monism!
    The "delight" is the very reason classical advaita does not favour creation theory because Brahman is always self satisfied and as Mandukya states - Brahman is AptakAma, who has no desires. What desires can the blissful Brahman have, and ever have a need to create anything?

    I have no problems with "non illusion" forms of advaita, however. But you must realize the polemical strength of Shankaran advaita with a never ending stream of great vedantins who have been able to answer many criticisms, especially against Dvaita.

    With such high credentials in its favour, I dont see any point in debating with not so well established forms of advaita. I am not the right person for a debate either. If you think yours is the actual monism, you can try defending it it some advaita forum like

    http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/

    In all probability, you can't defend a case against Mayavada, which has the genius of the likes of Shankara, Madhusudhana and Appayya in it. Advaita has dozens of commentaries and elaborations of all major upanishads, the Brahma sutras and the Gita.

  3. #33
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    Namaste,

    I have no wish for useless debates and arguements for their own sake
    If U bring some people here and start a meaningful discussion, then we can examine which Advaita is real Monism. However, i am afraid this will result in another tremendous discussion thread, which i am not interested in.

    In any case, before discussing about Paradvaita U have to get a basic idea of it. Believe me, it has no less geniuses!

  4. #34
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    Namaste Arjuna,

    Despite the recent popularity of Kashmiri Shaivism in western academic research, Kashmiri Shaivism is not the only valid interpretation of Shaiva Monism.

    Ajativada is firmly based on Shruti (the Upanishads) and logic.

    Ajativada does not consider “reality” or “unreality” ~ only eternity and non-eternity.

    Advaita cannot consider that Maya is “some kind of outer entity thought of as separate from Brahman”. And you mention the separation of Purusha and Prakriti, which comes from Samkhya and NOT from Ajativada or Advaita.

    It is provocative (and false) to claim that “Paradvaita” is the only true Monism.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga
    Namaste Arjuna,
    Despite the recent popularity of Kashmiri Shaivism in western academic research, Kashmiri Shaivism is not the only valid interpretation of Shaiva Monism.
    Ajativada is firmly based on Shruti (the Upanishads) and logic.
    Ajativada does not consider “reality” or “unreality” ~ only eternity and non-eternity.
    Advaita cannot consider that Maya is “some kind of outer entity thought of as separate from Brahman”. And you mention the separation of Purusha and Prakriti, which comes from Samkhya and NOT from Ajativada or Advaita.
    It is provocative (and false) to claim that “Paradvaita” is the only true Monism.
    Namaste Sarabhanga,

    Could U please tell more on Ajati-vada?

    My expression about Maya was figurative; is it considered to be different from Brahman (Sat), but not Asat either — consequently Shankara's Advaita describe her as "inconceivable". I really see no logic in this. If U follow Shankara's darshana, i would be glad to hear its explanation from U.

  6. The Shvetashvatara Upanishad can be cited as an example of Shaiva monism, though its teachings do not appear to be entirely in accordance with the Advaita Vada. The Veera Shaivas of Karnataka manage to combine Advaitic doctrines with an emphasis on bhakti as to some extent does Tamil Shaivism. I think one can say that Shaiva ideas are closer to Advaita than those of the Vaishnavas, though they are never identical.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimtadbrahma
    The Veera Shaivas of Karnataka manage to combine Advaitic doctrines with an emphasis on bhakti as to some extent does Tamil Shaivism. I think one can say that Shaiva ideas are closer to Advaita than those of the Vaishnavas, though they are never identical.
    Virashaivas have a ShaktivishishtAdvaita-vada and not a pure Monism.

    While there are at least two monistic Vaishnava traditions: Kashmiri one (perhaps lost, only texts like Samvit-prakasha survived) and Vallabha's (not 100% sure about this one, since never studied it, but it claims to be ShuddhAdvaita).

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kimtadbrahma
    The Shvetashvatara Upanishad can be cited as an example of Shaiva monism, though its teachings do not appear to be entirely in accordance with the Advaita Vada. The Veera Shaivas of Karnataka manage to combine Advaitic doctrines with an emphasis on bhakti as to some extent does Tamil Shaivism. I think one can say that Shaiva ideas are closer to Advaita than those of the Vaishnavas, though they are never identical.
    That depends on the kind of Vaishnavism you are looking at. There are monistic Vaishnavas with beleifs close to Shaivas, except for names and terminologies. Again, it also depends on what aspect the philosophy is trying to project itself as. Take for instance Vishsitadvaita-

    If you are viewing jiva to be part of the Brahman, and enjoying equal bliss to God, it cannot be called very far away from monism. (deha-dehi)

    If you are viewing jiva to be dependent on Brahman in the above relation as master-servant, it is closer to dvaita.(shesha -seshi)

    But they have chosen to give more importance to the second one for practical reasons( perhaps historical or perhaps to emphasise bhakti and saranagati over jnana). Taken in the first way, I dont see it very different from most Shaivas or even monists, though they will claim significant difference to protect thier unique identity.

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