So, the question 'what about omnibenevolent' is just 'is Divinity good?' I would like to know what others think but am not sure why anyone could call Divinity bad--even wrathful forms. At least I do not know why if they think every living being will be liberated one day.
Respectfully ji, I don't believe you understood my answer. "The problem with describing the Divine in terms of omnibenevolence comes down to what humanity defines as benevolent. Would a benevolent God allow evil to happen?"
Good and evil are projections of human consciousness related to limitations of perception in the sansaara (created realm) also called duality consciousness. God is beyond duality. A Tsunami has no quality of good or evil. Yet, the destructive wrath of a tsunami's perceived power is considered "evil" by human beings. And this itself is independent of the element of "intent" since a tsunami by act of nature has no intent. Evil and good by definition require "intent." But God who is ultimate consciousness and intention acts through agencies which are incapable of either, as well as through agencies which are capable of both. And this goes to richard silliker Ji's comments about "Divine Ambivalence."
If we project onto Divinity an absolute quality such as "omnibenevolence" it also projects an absolute limit which negates Divinity could possess qualities human beings perceive as "evil,"even if those apparent "evil" qualities are intended for our higher "good."And this explains the meaning of wrathful forms. So an absolute concept such as "omnibenevolence" is putting a limit on God. And God per our definition is both limited (sargun) and unlimited (nirgun) but the Totality of the Divine is both, nirgun and sargun, hence beyond limits of human conception. Rather than moral absolutes as "good" or "evil" which are human qualities to define God, Sanathana Dharma defines God as ultimately beyond qualities (nirguna), and hence, operating from a perspective of ambivalent indifference in regards to what we value. Good by definition is "positive or desirable by nature." In a wrathful form, God is perceived as neither positive or desirable but terrifying and destructive to our ambitions although the outcome is our spiritual evolution which is both positive and desirable.
Just as Saint Augustine said, "Man proposes, God disposes." We build sand castles and God takes neither delight or sorrow in watching our dreams get crushed. I believe such Abrahamic concepts as Omnibenevolence to describe Divinity are related to Christian Theology which posits that the Divine Man, in the figurehead of Jesus, is the moral absolute. Thus projecting human conceptions of moral goodness and badness onto the Divine.
"When the camp of the heroic Pandava brothers is attacked one night by the sword-wielding Asvattaman, his deadly assault is seen as the work of "Kali of bloodly mouth and eyes, smeared with blood and adorned with garlands, her garment reddened, --holding noose in hand-- binding men and horses and elephants, with her terrible snares of death (Mahabharata 10.8.64-65). Although the passage goes on the describe the slaughter as an act of human warfare, it makes clear that the fierce goddess is ultimately the agent of death who carries off those who are slain." http://www.saisathyasai.com/india_hi...ses/kali.shtml
When Devotee Ji described the counsel of Bhagavan Krishna Ji, you must bear in mind that Bhagavan Krishna is an avatar, and hence sargun manifestation. We approach the Divine through sargun agencies (Guru God), but at no time is the Absolute ever limited. And not saying Bhagavan Krishna (who is the MahaVishnu/Parabrahm/Absolute Divine) is ever limited, but that Krishna Bhagavan's counsel is in context given to limited human beings from His Divine perspective as Guru God and Avatar. Hence the God has aspects which are both personal and impersonal, perceived by us as both "good" and "evil." Devotee Ji is reminding us that God is personal and cares for us. This is the contextual meaning of God described as "Satyam Shivam Sundaram" The God is "truth, auspicious blessing and beautiful." Which is parallel to human conception of God as absolute, and not relative goodness. But that is not the same as the ontological Christian definition of the God as "Omnibenevolent" which precludes that the God could be "anything other" according to limited human perspectives.
If Kali's wrathful form is coming to destroy everything you love and move you away from human attachments with Her goad and snare you with Her noose to drag you away from your life, you may view it as "evil." Yet it is still the "Will of God." Nothing happens which is outside the Will of God/Divine Hukam. God is not the direct "doer" of the "evil" yet is allowing the evil so we can all learn/evolve/progress from it. Kali, as a wrathful non-benevolent form represents purgation. She purges us with violent force from all that is not pure. In the Divine symbolism, Kali is described as a "terror" to the demons. It is "we" the limited human beings She is after, "we" whose demonic qualities She destroys.
Within the many philosophies of Sanatana Dharma, God is ultimate indifference or "shades of gray" which is not the same as "uncaring," or "cruelty." And here is the reason per Devotee Ji: "In fact, he must be impartial, just & compassionate even to an atheist." Our human problem is that we don't perceive the "justice." We don't see the "compassion." We don't see the "impartiality." So what's going on? And the problem is simple. We perceive as human beings attached to our limited/finite identities and what we value as limited beings: our lives, health, homes, loved ones, etc. We are human. God is beyond the limitations of a human. God is not attached to what we value. God works through the agency of Mahakal, using Time to destroy everything we cling to. God views our atma (indestructible nature) as our ultimate reality. In the words of Sri Daya Mata Ji of SRF, "It's not what happens to us that matters. It's what we become as a result of what happens to us that matters."
So to God, even tortures we undergo are not even blink of an eye to the timeless transcended state. Only we are living in a nightmare world of suffering and death. God is beyond suffering. God is beyond "good" and "evil." God works through the agencies of "good" and "evil" to achieve the desired result of our spiritual evolution which is the meaning of karma and dharma. Our karma and our suffering is part of our evolution.
Today you are this person, but after this life who will you be? Will anything you have in this life which will fade away retain importance? Today you may live in a castle and in the next life you may be on the street begging. Today you may have beautiful wife and loving kids and in next life will you even know their names? God's reality is not our reality. And while God is Shivam, His Shivam may not be considered Shivam to us at the present state of our development
God's justice isn't equivalent of "human justice." We cannot fathom the depth of what God is working from the perspective of a human being. We only perceive as a human can, in terms of sorrow, hurt, loss, aggrievement. God is working through the natural agencies of the created order which are wholly indifferent to our sufferings, the actions and reactions of the gunas, and even the chaotic factors of intervening human intentions (evil capacity), such as the mind of a man who pulls the trigger of a gun. God is working. Because behind every act is the All-pervading Presence of God. Although God is not the actor, ultimately everything is only He. Devotee Ji was right, "This whole creation is working under strict laws. No one is permitted to break these laws & no one can complain." And also: "Nothing happens in this world without his permission. However, we must understand this in this way : The laws of Nature (Karma) within the waking & dreaming states were sanctioned by him..."
So in this paradigm, evil is just a human definition of something innately opposed to what we believe is good. God transcends and is unaffected by the concept of evil. God is beyond concepts or limits like "omnibenevolence."
ਦੁਖੁ ਦਾਰੂ ਸੁਖੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਭਇਆ ਜਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਤਾਮਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
dhukh dhaaroo sukh rog bhaeiaa jaa sukh thaam n hoee ||
Suffering is the medicine, and pleasure the disease, because where there is pleasure, there is no desire for God.
~SGGS Ji ang 469
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