Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 41

Thread: A.K.A. Osho

  1. #31
    Join Date
    January 2010
    Location
    tadvishno paramam padam
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,168
    Rep Power
    2544

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    I'm sure the Christians and Moslems love it when they see Hindus fighting amongst themselves.
    First of all, let me say that any time an Indian Guru/Acharya falls because of something that he did/said or his followers did/said, it is very painful, because it reflects negatively on the whole of Hinduism.
    I look at it slightly differently, this all has to do with prestige, but should prestige (ego) prevent us from searching the truth. Humility is not crawling in the sand, kissing people's feet, but it's the lack of humility that makes us worried about what will the Christians or Muslims say when they see us criticising our own saints for the sake of preserving dharma. We like to see the Christians and Muslims as our enemies, but a lot of misinformation that is being spread about Hinduism is an inside job spread by gurus who were looking for masses of followers.

    Having been around for few decades longer than some of the other members, and having lived through the times of highs and lows of some of the recent Gurus, our knowledge base about their teachings/activities is deeper and wider through no special effort of ours. A lot could be said about them, both positive and negative, but that would only peel the scabs off the old wounds. And it would damage Hinduism. So, why not let the old departed souls rest? If you find something positive in what they said/wrote, absorb it, else move on!
    The departed souls would not care, since they have already gone and left us with their teachings. Me or you criticising the teachings of a departed soul is not going to affect the departed soul negatively or positively, but it can help raise the awareness among those who are here now and will be there in the future.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 02 February 2011 at 03:06 PM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    September 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,191
    Rep Power
    5035

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    We like to see the Christians and Muslims as our enemies,.
    Vannakkam Sahasranama:

    Shhesh .. I promised myself I wouldn't discuss Christianity any more. This IS a HINDU forum. (Slaps oneself upside head)

    I know each is entitled to their opinion, but I am not within this 'we' you speak of. My view is they are tiny children, drowning in maya and anava, needing to be educated, and we as having a difficult task as they are simply not ready for it. I am ready to defend, when defense is needed, but for me your choice of the word 'enemy' differs. Perhaps I am misinterpreting a single word, though.

    In Madurai, I spent a lot of time talking with fellow Hindus and re-encouraging and reinforcing how little they (the Christians) have to offer by putting the cross on top of the new hospital. I would rather spend time encouraging my own brethen not to be duped any longer than talking or battling with Christians. The one guy I did encounter I just ignored. I feel confronting him would just harden his resolve, which would defeat the purpose. I felt that his seeing me (a westerner) dressed in veshti, vibhuthi smeared, and all smiles would have the impact of perhaps making his eyes doubt himself for but a moment. That would be a breakthrough.

    At least the Hindus understood me. The Christians would have had no clue.

    Aum Namasivaya

  3. #33
    Join Date
    January 2010
    Location
    tadvishno paramam padam
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,168
    Rep Power
    2544

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    I am not choosing the right words today, but what I meant was that people have no problem criticising information about Hinduism when it comes from the western front, but when a native prestigious Indian Hindu says something, he is suddenly above criticism. This attitude of "Deepak Chopra says something, criticise all you want. Sathya Sai Baba does something, don't you dare say a word." Not to be understood wrongly, I like to criticise both.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,835
    Rep Power
    5489

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    Whatever!
    -

  5. #35
    Join Date
    January 2011
    Posts
    258
    Rep Power
    205

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    But that would only turn a blind eye to it. There must be a loud opposition to the corrupt / radical "guru's" who subvert their followers. Simply moving on won't solve the real problem.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    September 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    69
    Posts
    7,191
    Rep Power
    5035

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    But that would only turn a blind eye to it. There must be a loud opposition to the corrupt / radical "guru's" who subvert their followers. Simply moving on won't solve the real problem.
    Vannakkam: But who will be the judge on who is radical and subverts their followers? Not me, that's for sure. I find the term 'brainwashing' very interesting. Some parts of our brains really do need a great washing (cleansing). I've been 'brainwashed' and 'subverted'. Now look what I am. Some guy pretending to be Hindu, I guess?

    Aum Namasivaya

  7. #37

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: But who will be the judge on who is radical and subverts their followers?
    If you (generic you, not EM) are following their teachings or getting influenced by them, you be the judge. If you don't become the judge of what you eat and take in, who else will do that for you?

    If you are completely immune to societal influences and having nothing to do with the gurus who can be criticized, you can probably wash your hands off any criticism business and live your life. I have nothing against that, though I don't think it is the best course of action.

    But at the same time we cannot ban, disallow public criticism of public figures. Politicians and Regligious leaders are 2 peoples who need to be scrutinized most. A person might individually choose to stay out of politics and religion, but society has the full right and need to do indulge in this activity.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  8. #38

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    I am not choosing the right words today, but what I meant was that people have no problem criticising information about Hinduism when it comes from the western front, but when a native prestigious Indian Hindu says something, he is suddenly above criticism. This attitude of "Deepak Chopra says something, criticise all you want. Sathya Sai Baba does something, don't you dare say a word." Not to be understood wrongly, I like to criticise both.
    Extremely good way to put. Denial to self-criticism means we are close to possibilities of improvement.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  9. #39

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
    Another pov (edit:which I think most or all of it is quoted from Christopher Calder) about Osho:


    "Rajneesh ruled his desert empire as a warlord with his own private army and puppet government. His visions and ideas, faulty or not, were taken without question as the word of God. His disciples were judged by their ability to surrender to his will, and any opposing views were branded as an unspiritual lack of faith. As conditions at the ranch became progressively more unpleasant, a number of sannyasins escaped by hiding in the back of outgoing trucks. Their quest for freedom upset Rajneesh, who demanded that the disillusioned must now ask his permission to leave. Rajneesh then dramatically threatened suicide if others escaped by stealthful means...

    ...Rajneesh died addicted to Valium, and he experienced all of the negative symptoms of drug addiction, which included slurred speech, paranoia, poor judgment, and dramatically lowered intelligence. At one point his paranoia and confusion were so great that he thought a group of German cultists had cast an evil spell on him. His physical disabilities and drug abuse were simply more than his mortal brain could take. His biggest flaw, his disregard for the ordinary concept of truth, was his ultimate downfall and for that crime he must be held fully responsible.

    "Never give a sucker an even break." - W.C. Fields

    Rajneesh lied when he said he had enlightened disciples. He lied when he said he never made a mistake. Near the end of his life he was forced to admit that he was fallible, as his list of bungles had grown to monstrous proportions. He lied by pretending that his therapy groups were not mainly just a money making device. Rajneesh lied about breaking United States immigration laws, and he only admitted the truth after he was presented with overwhelming evidence against him. He lied by saying that he was adopted in a phony scheme to get permanent residence status. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was no bank robber, but he was quite literally a pathological liar. The ridiculous thing is that all of his lies were totally unnecessary and counterproductive. As conventional and square as it may sound, honesty really is the best policy!
    Rajneesh lied when he claimed that he was not responsible for the horrors of the Oregon commune. Rajneesh was responsible because he hand picked Ma Anand Sheela and the people who committed the major crimes of conspiracy to commit murder, poisoning, first-degree assault, burglary, arson, and wiretapping. Rajneesh himself gave direct verbal approval for Sheela's illegal bugging and wiretapping of his own disciples. The fact that Rajneesh did not order or have preknowledge (hopefully) of the most serious violent crimes does not mean that he was not ethically responsible for them. Rajneesh never turned against Ma Anand Sheela until he started to suspect that Sheela was stealing money from him.
    Just one month before Sheela fled the commune, Rajneesh spoke of her publicly, stating that "I have been preparing her like a sword. I told her to go out and cut as many heads as possible." Later, Rajneesh feigned innocence and claimed that Sheela was controlling him in spite of the obvious fact that Rajneesh was the singular reason the commune existed. Rajneesh was surrounded by thousands of adoring disciples who would have gladly expelled or even jailed Sheela any time he gave the order.
    Sheela did Rajneesh's dirty work, and the fact that she went farther in her crimes than Rajneesh had planned does not exonerate him of all guilt. Upon leaving the commune, Sheela stated that she was tired of "being his slave for 16, 17 or 20 hours a day," and tired of "taking food out of the mouths of people to buy him watches and Rolls Royces." Rajneesh then publicly claimed that Sheela had extorted millions of dollars from the commune. Sheela's response to his charge was that Rajneesh had spent all of the money himself on his own expensive toys, and that Rajneesh was bad at mathematics and "can't count." Clearly, Rajneesh's insane purchases of dozens of bejeweled ladies' watches and over 90 Rolls-Royce automobiles cost the commune many millions of dollars. After her release from prison, Ma Anand Sheela continued to work for a living, without obvious signs of enormous wealth. Sheela committed many crimes, but Rajneesh himself was never "innocent."
    If a teacher puts a drunken sailor in charge of driving a school bus, and the children end up dead, then the teacher is responsible for their deaths. Rajneesh knew what kind of a person Sheela was, and he chose her because of her corruption and arrogance, not in spite of it. Rajneesh personally tutored Sheela in how to control and manipulate his own disciples, and it was Rajneesh himself who encouraged Sheela's infamous outbursts on the ABC television show, Nightline. In a cowardly attempt to evade his own failings, Rajneesh changed his name to Osho, as if a change in name could wash away his sins.
    There is no publicly released evidence to suggest that Rajneesh ordered the germ warfare attack on the ten Oregon restaurants. There is also no publicly released evidence that implicates Rajneesh in the plot to have a sannyasin pilot fly an airplane full of explosives into an Oregon courthouse in order to intimidate the political opposition. Luckily, the sannyasin pilot who was asked to perform that insane task was not as dumb as the plotters, and he fled the commune without committing any crime.
    Rajneesh was directly responsible for the twisted mix of totalitarian slavery and libertine indulgence that the commune represented. According to highly credible published reports, Rajneesh allowed middle aged men to have sexual intercourse with prepubescent girls at the commune in the name of sexual freedom, yet his disciples were not allowed to have a mind of their own and had to totally surrender to the great Bhagwan's will. Disciples were often forced to work 12 hours a day in cold and difficult conditions, while Rajneesh himself experienced "groovy spaces" in his private heated indoor pool and watched countless movies on his big screen projection television, all the while enjoying his daily supply of drugs. Rajneesh showed his divine love for his disciples by squandering millions in hard earned commune assets on his car collection and expensive jewelry, and all in the name of egolessness and spiritual surrender. [see photo of the flagrantly narcissistic Osho wearing jewel encrusted watch]
    Why did Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh own over 90 Rolls-Royces? Why did Saddam Hussein own dozens of luxurious palaces? Those desires were products of the base animal mind of two men who grew up surrounded by poverty. Enlightenment does not care about symbols of power and potency. Looking for hidden esoteric explanations for obsessive behavior is pointless. Is there an occult reason that Elton John spends over $400,000. per month on flowers? Is there a secret spiritual reason that Rajneesh had a collection of dozens of expensive ladies' watches? The universal cosmic consciousness is completely neutral and without any need to possess, impress, or dominate. It also cannot drive or tell time. One of Rajneesh's most blatant lies was that "the enlightened one gains nothing from his disciples." Rajneesh wanted people to believe that everything he did was a free gift born of pure compassion, and that he gained nothing personally from the guru-disciple relationship. In obvious provable fact, Rajneesh gained much from his disciples: money, power, sex, and the titillation of constant adoration. Just as rock stars become energized by screaming fans at concerts, Rajneesh gained emotional energy and support from his army of sannyasins. The energy transfer was a two-way street, not a totally free one-way gift. Being a guru was his business, his only business. Without that income, at least on the material level, he was just a short, balding, physically disabled Indian man who could not hold a job. Rajneesh's very real enlightenment would not pay his bills or give him the material luxuries he craved..."

    I felt I had to write something here about Chris Calder`s unrealistic views on Osho.
    It is clear that he has created his own version of events in Osho`s life,and presented his ideas as `the facts`.
    You can read Anthony Thompson`s verdict on Chris Calder`s writing here: http://truthaboutosho.blogspot.com/

    I find that Chris Calder`s writing on Osho is immature.Of course he is entitled to his opinion.
    To read a small book by one of Osho`s very early diciples,: http://www.oshoworld.com/tales/introduction.asp

    Om Namo Shivaya

  10. #40

    Re: A.K.A. Osho

    Namaste,

    I really love Osho. I enjoy listening to him. I consider him a real free spirit and enlightened person. Whatever they write about him I do not care. OSHO spoke his mind and offended a great number of people and as Karma goes, this negativity returned to him. I think he would gracefully accept that. As a unconventional person OSHO liked to provoke. He was a very provoking person challenging all kind of concepts other people take for granted or as holy truth. But I think his provoking was rather meant to create free thinking followers than to attack others. The implicit message is: do not look up to much, think for yourself.

    I think the subject is a bit out of place here, as Osho did not regard himself to be a Hindu. He was not a Hindu master. He is background was Jain, born Chandra Mohan Jain. But what I make up from his words he regarded him self more of a Buddhist, a Buddha.

    Whenever he criticized, he does this in very clear and concise terms so you can follow his reasoning. What I like very much is that all his provoking remarks are done with a great sense of humor and relativity. Although he has a very clear manner of expressing himself, their is always this smile that provokes the listener.

    Was Osho perfect? I think there are two things important here.

    One: Hindu's do not expect Guru's to be perfect like for instance Muslims or Christians do. Simply read the great epics, not even the Sages are perfect. A student chooses his guru himself as perfect for him. And guru's ask students to ignore their flaws. Even Sages must be constantly aware and can still fail in weak moment.

    Two: Who are we to judge? To judge OSHO is to say we equal OSHO in consciousness and understand the true reasons of his actions. In India followers do not expect masters to behave in conventional way. I think it is hard to be a true student if you want to judge your teacher. As non-followers we can criticize OSHO, but remembering the lightheartedness and humor, his rejection for any kind fanaticism, his playful ways and understanding of western psychology and the Love and happiness he imbued in many of his followers, I think fondly of him as a wonderful man and a great gift to mankind.

    Jai Ganesha!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •