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Thread: A form of Taoism

  1. #61
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    Post Re: A form of Taoism

    Namaste Yajvan,

    tathAtA or tathArthA (cf. siddhArtha, the tathAgata) is “the true state of things, true nature, or reality”, and tathAtvam or tathArtvam (cf. tattvam) is “the being real, real condition, or reality”.

    The feminine tathAtA is equivalent with tattvatA (“truth or reality”) which is equivalent with the neuter tattvam (“the true or real state, truth or reality”).

    hata, however, indicates “destitute of”, “without”, or “-less”, and hAta is “given up or abandoned”, so that tat-hAtA is “that-less” or “having given up that”.

    tathAtA is “such-ness, thus-ness, or that-ness”, but it is also “that-less”.

  2. #62
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    Re: A form of Taoism

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    tathAtA is “such-ness, thus-ness, or that-ness”, but it is also “that-less”.
    Namaste sarabhanga (et.al)

    Is it your opinion that Buddhism's version of this is the same as found in Vedanta? That is what I been pondering. How close (or far apart) are these POV's?

    pranams
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #63
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    Post Re: A form of Taoism

    Namaste Yajvan,

    If tattvam (tattvatA or tathAtA) is the ultimate reality, and one interprets tathAtA as “thatlessness”, then the ultimate reality is without any discernable quality. In advaitam this is a good thing, but in dvaitam this is generally taken as a bad thing.

    Since siddhArtha and tathAgata are names for the buddha, I would assume that the views of bauddha and vedAnta are similar. Although absolute “thatlessness” may be interpreted as absolute shUnya rather than undivided or perfect puruSa, and that could lead to a very different perpective.

  4. #64
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    Re: A form of Taoism

    Hario Om
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    If tattvam (tattvatA or tathAtA) is the ultimate reality, and one interprets tathAtA as “thatlessness”, then the ultimate reality is without any discernable quality. In advaitam this is a good thing, but in dvaitam this is generally taken as a bad thing.

    Since siddhArtha and tathAgata are names for the buddha, I would assume that the views of bauddha and vedAnta are similar. Although absolute “thatlessness” may be interpreted as absolute shUnya rather than undivided or perfect puruSa, and that could lead to a very different perpective.
    Namaste sarabhanga,
    you have hit at the crux of the question that I have been pondering for some time... that is, comparing the notion of shUnya (or void) to puruSha and trying discern if the Buddhist's tattvam ,this void = puruSha.

    One can say that this shUnya has the qualities of akara ( a = not + ksi = to destroy or perish); How can the void be destroyed or perish if there is nothing there? - so it passes this test.

    Differences arise when one thinks of shUnya as perfect emptiness vs. that of perfect fullness (puruSha). Hence is this shUnya therefore another term for akasha (pure space) and does not address puruSha? Perhaps, I think.

    When I look to some of the the Upanishads and tantras, the notion of spanda ( vibration or throb) is offered and assigned to the Absolute. Yet where can there be spanda in the void? This is the pickle I have been trying to think through, without a clear self-imposed answer. thank goodness no sleep is lost over this

    pranams
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #65
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    Post Re: A form of Taoism

    Namaste Yajvan,

    In the absolute advaitam of ajAtivAda, no spanda is admitted, with all spanda as a property of mAyA and prakRti. Only vishiSTAdvaitam and other such jAtivAda actually allows spanda as an inherent quality of the ultimate reality.

    mAyAvAda (as ajAtivAda) denies the ultimate reality of spanda, but uses spanda as a means of explaining the apparent illusion. And the explanations of mAyAvAda are taken as the highest truths in vishiSTAdvaitam and jAtivAda (dismissing ajAtivAda as shUnyavAda).

  6. #66

    Re: A form of Taoism

    from Taoism,

    No doubt in Sincerity, Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 21,

    It lies in the nature of Grand Virtue
    To follow the Tao and the Tao alone.
    Now what is the Tao?
    It is Something elusive and evasive.
    Evasive and elusive!
    And yet It contains within Itself a Form.
    Elusive and evasive!
    And yet It contains within Itself a Substance.
    Shadowy and dim!
    And yet It contains within Itself a Core of Vitality.
    The Core of Vitality is very real,
    It contains within Itself an unfailing Sincerity.
    Throughout the ages Its Name has been preserved
    In order to recall the Beginning of all things.
    How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning?
    By what is within me.

  7. #67

    Re: A form of Taoism

    T.T.C.14.

    LOOK at it but you cannot see it!
    Its name is Formless.

    Listen to it but you cannot hear it!
    Its name is Soundless.

    Grasp it but you cannot get it!
    Its name is Incorporeal.

    These three attributes are unfathomable;
    Therefore they fuse into one.

    Its upper side is not bright:
    Its under side not dim.
    Continually the Unnameable moves on,
    Until it retums beyond the realm of things.
    We call it the formless Form, the imageless Image.
    We call it the indefinable and unimaginable.

    Confront it and you do not see its face!
    Follow it and you do not see its back!
    Yet, equipped with this timeless Tao,
    You can harness present realities.

    To know the origins is initiation into the Tao.

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