A form of Taoism

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Bob (and others in doubt),

The precept of being vegetarian is the fundamental of Tâo, and is a bridge of truth, across the ocean of births and death, between the ferry and the other shore of liberation.

The precept of being vegetarian is the fundamental of Tâo ~ i.e. ahiMsA is the foundation of the Tâo.

And the bridge of truth across the ocean of births and death, between the ferry and the other shore of liberation, is the tIrthaÑkara (the ford-maker or crossing-maker, the sacred ferryman or the saviour of souls).

ahiMsA is the foundation of the Tâo, and it is the very tIrthaÑkara !

The fundamental identity of Jainism and Taoism is undeniable.

[Bob G]

Sarabhanga,

Your opinions are noted; but I don't agree with whatever your personal motive may be in apparently trying to force your point of view? (with a few choice quotes to back them up)

Taoism has many sects or schools and I didn't start this string to proclaim or imply to anyone that just one of them is the true school. I think that doing so would be like proclaiming that just one sect in Hinduism is the true school and that the rest of the sects and people are evil doers if they don't have certain beliefs. (which I could find quotes to back up)

Good luck

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Bob,

My motive, as always, is only Yoga!

This is not my personal opinion; This is a direct quote (translated) from Taoist scripture: “The true Tirthankara is the Tao”.

Please provide some evidence (from Taoist scripture, not merely your own opinion) that Taoism is NOT related to Jainism.

And can you also give some scriptural evidence that extols the virtues of meat-eating, or at least something that denies the importance of vegetarian diet (again, from Taoist scripture, and not merely your opinion).

I have no interest in proclaiming anyone as evil or untrue. I have only been trying to show that Jainism and Taoism share exactly the same philosophical roots.

And unless someone can actually provide scriptural evidence (not personal opinions) to the contrary, I must repeat my previous claim that the fundamental identity of Jainism and Taoism cannot reasonably be denied.

Even if it is admitted that some modern Taoist sects have no interest in universal compassion, that does not deny the fact that orthodox Taoist practice is fundamentally vegetarian, and that many Taoist texts are almost identical to those of both Jaina and Vedanta, and that their nominal founders, Mahavira and Lao-Tzu, are remembered as living at the same time and for the same time, and that in both cases the lineage of teachers is thought to go back to an original preceptor who lived about 2600 BC (when the Sarasvati-Sindhu civilization was flourishing).

And in response, you disagree because “some Taoists are not very religious”.

I could find quotes to back up that just one sect in Hinduism is the true school and that the rest of the sects and people are evil doers if they don't have certain beliefs.

Perhaps you could find such quotes, but that would be entirely irrelevant to my thesis, and to this thread.

[Bob G]

Sarabhanga, Obviously you are free to continue your "thesis" on your own or with others who are interested; I would prefer that you did it in some other string or in your own string. (where I won't be dropping in)

Om

[sarabhanga]

Bob,

I was not aware that this was a "private" thread, with no related discussion allowed. If you are not interested in my comment, perhaps you could establish your own forum. But don't worry, if you don't post anything that suggests a close relationship between supposedly diverse religions, then I will not make any uninvited comment about those relationships.

[Bob G]

Chuang Tsu, Inner Chapters, from chapter. 2

"Now I am going to tell you something. I don't know what heading it comes under, and whether or not it is relevant here, but it must be relevant at some point. It is not anything new, but I would like to say it.

There is a beginning. There is no beginning of that beginning. There is no beginning of that no beginning of beginning. There is something. There is nothing. There is something before the beginning of something and nothing, and something before that. Suddenly there is something and nothing. But between something and nothing, I still don't know which is something and which is nothing. Now, I've just said something, but I don't really know whether I've said anything or not."

[atanu]

-------- For this reason, no matter what path anyone may choose, it is THAT . Vedanta actually means the end of difference and non-difference. ( Vedanta - end or culmination of Vedic wisdom. SRI MA here plays upon words: Veda, and bheda difference. In Bengali the letters B and V sound alike. ‘Anta’ means ‘end’.)

While engaging in sadhana one must concentrate in a single direction; but after it has been completed, what comes then? The cessation of difference, distinction and disagreement. Differences do indeed exist on the path, but how can there be a difference of Goal?

Sri Ma

[Bob G]

True enough Atanu; yet do we hear of realized ones giving up their previous way or path, giving up their lineages, giving up the teachings and related culture of their way, giving up their position and power as lineage holders, and then changing to a totally non-sectarian teaching? As far as I know most continue living and teaching the path they took and not someone else path.

[atanu]

True enough Atanu; yet do we hear of realized ones giving up their previous way or path, giving up their lineages, giving up the teachings and related culture of their way, giving up their position and power as lineage holders, and then changing to a totally non-sectarian teaching? As far as I know most continue living and teaching the path they took and not someone else path.

Namaste Bob G,

You are correct and also correct is the following


There is only one thread of all cotton

There is only one thread of all cotton.
The warp, the woof, the quill of the weaver's shuttle,
The shuttle, the texture of cloths, the cotton shoes and hanks of yarn,
All are known by their respective names,
And they all belong to their respective places
But there is only one thread of yarn.

Bulleh Shah
---------------------
a Tirthankara ("Fordmaker") (also Tirthankara or Jina) is a human who achieves enlightenment (perfect knowledge), through asceticism. A Tirthankar becomes a Jina (after totally conquering anger, pride, deceit, desire, etc.). A Tirthankar is the founder of a "Tirth", a Jain community which acts as a "ford" across the "river of human misery".

The above definition of Tirthankara taken in general terms, as a mukta, may not conflict with Sarabhanga's citation of Tao literature that “The true Tirthankara is the Tao”, since the true fordmaker is indeed the Tao (though I am not sure about the specifics and about historical correlations).

-----------------------

This knowledge does not conflict with Vedanta. Yet, in details there are differences galore. Jainas believe that the soul becomes of the size of the body it resides in. Advaita Vedanta believes this to be ignorance.

What Tao says about it, I do not know.

--------------------------------

Hoping that discussions will make the thread lively.

Regards, OM

[Bob G]

Atanu,

You have the noble intention of making peace which is appreciated.

...but I'll try to give you a for instance of what I'm feeling: If the Tibetan Buddhists who live live in India as guests started making it a practice to walk around parts of India openly telling Hindus that they are really Buddhists but that they just don't know it yet, along with the teaching that there really is no Atman or the other things that are key to their Hindu belief, then we would at least have a messy situation! This example doesn't cross over very well to this thread but it is along the lines of why I'm not going to embrace the idea of mixing up Jainism with Taoism by implying or proclaiming to people of either belief that they are really Jains or Taoists or that that their paths are really the same although they don't know it yet... note: I'm not saying that was your meaning or the words or meaning of Sarabhanga, that is just where I see it headed or what I see it easily turning into.

Further, I don't know much of religious history but it seems that True Gurus of different traditions mostly stick to themselves so to speak, and seldom or never seriously push things along the lines of proclamations regarding other religions or people. (And they also don't even have much time to deal with other sects within their same religion)

Om