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Thread: How to follow Tantra Yoga

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    How to follow Tantra Yoga

    Notice, I am looking for Madhyam Marga here....I found little guidance as "All acts are sacred", and "Satisfy your pleasures and don't worry about the consequences".

    But I want the whole package.

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    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga

    I would suggest you study the Shakta hymns (like Soundarya Lahari, for example) for starters.




    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

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    Arrow Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by skhandelwal View Post
    Notice, I am looking for Madhyam Marga here....I found little guidance as "All acts are sacred", and "Satisfy your pleasures and don't worry about the consequences".

    But I want the whole package.
    There is NO Tantra without the Guru. Following books won't bring the proper understanding. All virachara level dicta of tha Agamas are meant for those who have adhikara for that.

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    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    There is NO Tantra without the Guru. Following books won't bring the proper understanding. All virachara level dicta of tha Agamas are meant for those who have adhikara for that.
    With all due respects,

    While I understand that Tantra is tradition as much as communication, I am of the opinion that intermediary between supplicant and Godz is not required if one is willing to sacrifice Self.

    The hymns are the most explicit text of methodology I've encountered.

    ZN
    /no parampara
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

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    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    There is NO Tantra without the Guru. Following books won't bring the proper understanding. All virachara level dicta of tha Agamas are meant for those who have adhikara for that.
    Namaste Arjuna,
    do you believe this to be true for both left-handed and right-handed tantra?

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    do you believe this to be true for both left-handed and right-handed tantra?
    2 Yajvan:
    The whole system of hinduism is based on studying from acharyas and gurus. Amnaya exists as a flow of grace and knowledge via the parampara. There is no separate right and left handed tantrism if we speak about spiritual path as such, since right handed is preliminary stage for the left. And all starts from the diksha.

    2 Znanna:
    Yes, there is such a thing as direct initiation from the yoginis, powers of Consciousness. But that is an exception. The thing is that sole decent of grace is usually not enough, since one has to get methods how to develop the potential that was awakened in him/her. Also it is the normal case that when shaktipata occurs, Guru appears. In fact the diksha is shaktipata, and shaktipata is directly from Bhagavati. But in practice Guru is required.
    Also this idea of "spontaneous initiation" when stressed is quite harmful since it gives grounds for every bill and dick to proclaim his authority and cheat people. I know examples of this sad tendency.

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    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste Arjuna


    regarding
    There is no separate right and left handed tantrism if we speak about spiritual path as such
    yes, I concur.

    regarding your response to Z
    Yes, there is such a thing as direct initiation from the yoginis, powers of Consciousness. But that is an exception. The thing is that sole decent of grace is usually not enough, since one has to get methods how to develop the potential that was awakened in him/her. Also it is the normal case that when shaktipata occurs, Guru appears. In fact the diksha is shaktipata, and shaktipata is directly from Bhagavati. But in practice Guru is required.
    Let me offer a few comments. I do not think this is at all opposed to what you have offered, perhaps even extension of what you have mentioned to to Z.

    This has much to do with the native him-herself I believe and the type of aspirant in question:
    aprabuddha - living in ignorance, with no desire for yoga or being awakened.
    prabuddha - on the road to awaking
    aprabuddha - some call suprabuddha The person that experinces spanda, pure consciousness; some like to call it the un-interrupted flow of this awareness.
    These are called out in the Spanda-kArikAs 1.17-1.20.

    I offer these as the adjunct to various upAyas ( the means) that can be experienced and/or practiced.
    From a Kasmir Shaivism there are 3 upayas for taking individual consciousness to that of Fullness of Being, To Brahman, to God Consciousness. As you are most astutely aware; the following are offered for continunity:
    • Sambhavopaya [Sambhava - upaya] - this is considered the highest means
    • Saktopaya - this is considered the middle means
    • Anavopaya - this is considered entry level
    Yet there is one more also - there is anupAya. Own would argue that this in fact is not a upAya, as it is positioned as 'no upAya' - that is the native has to do nothing, be as you are. This anupAya awakening to Reality is done by ananda sakti of Siva, and comes to the native with out much doing. Some then call it AnandopAya.

    Yet it is my contention that 'nothing be done' is perhaps applies in this life, but in past births one prepared the soil via various upAyas for this Grace to descend upon the native.

    Also - the guru in fact may be needed, but more for confirmation. That this level of Being, this Fullness ( bhuma) is in fact the Reality of Brahman and alls well. This is how my teacher explained it to me, and why the bond of sisya+guru becomes so strong.

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga: Left & Right

    Hari Oṁ
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by skhandelwal View Post
    Notice, I am looking for Madhyam Marga here....I found little guidance as "All acts are sacred", and "Satisfy your pleasures and don't worry about the consequences".
    Namaste

    Some time back skhandelwal offered the above post... I thought to re-address this tangentially. You will see what I mean in a second.

    The notion here was madhya mārga or central (madya) + path (mārga) as it regards to tantra.

    This is very interesting as many suggest it depends upon the behavior/characteristics of the adhīkāri¹ - the native that is pursing the inward development of one's sādhana.

    The left or the right mārga is native-aspirant centric. What are these called? Dakṣiṇa mārga and vāma mārga.

    I find dakṣiṇa delightful as it is defined as right-handed but also south facing. Most find the direction of the South inauspicious. Yet if we click down just one more level there is the beauty of this word. If you look or face east you will note to your right is the South direction, hence right facing.
    This South direction is owned by Mars, considered fiery in nature and tamo-guna. Mars also aligns with Bagalāmukhi of the daśa mahāvidyā¹. Yet Mars is the brahmacarya e.g. Hanumanji, courage, agni, the kśatriya in time of need, valour; He is generous, bold, enthusiastic and gives robust health.

    Vāma mārga is the left hand way; Vāma is pleasant and agreeable, yet also means vomiting.

    So the question becomes that of the aspirant wishing to move his/her spiritual development forward... some think from bhukti to mukti - that of enjoyment and 'feeding' the senses to mukti that of liberation.

    The nature of the aspirant needs to be considered... is one starting at the paśu level ( of animal instincts)? or rajasic or satvic? Pending these tendencies the approach (left-or-right) may be in order.

    Vāma mārga is greatly misunderstood. I see this in my readings, but do not have practical experience. You will hear of drinking and meat eating, all that. Yet as my studies inform me, these notions are symbols (saṃketa). Like drinking - it is the intoxication of the Spirit, the Divine vs. the inebriated state of dis-function.

    It is said only the vīra ( the hero/warrior) is competent to follow this vāma mārga approach. It's suggested the slightest deviation off the path leads to the aspirants downfall of his/her sadhana.

    Left-or-right ? It depends. It would be a mistake to think, if vāma mārga then one would only follow Kālī-kulam and if Dakṣiṇa mārga one follows Śrī-kulam.

    pranams

    words and references
    • madhya मध्य - middlemost, central, intermediate
    • mārga कार - seeking, search, tracing out; a way, manner
    • adhīkāri - adhī अधी - to turn the mind inwards; to know, know by heart; kāri and kāra - kāri कारि action, act, work; an artist, artificer, mechanic; also raising hymns of praise
    • vāma वाम - lovely, dear, pleasant, agreeable, fair, beautiful, splendid ; also the act of vomiting; the left hand, or left hand way;
    • dakṣiṇa दक्षिण- situated to the south, turned or directed southward; the righthand or higher doctrine ; straightforward , candid, sincere, pleasing, compliant
    • vīra वीर - a brave man; heroic, powerful, strong, excellent,
    • More on Bagalāmukhi can be found here : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...3&postcount=10
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #9

    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga: Left & Right

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Vāma mārga is greatly misunderstood. I see this in my readings, but do not have practical experience. You will hear of drinking and meat eating, all that. Yet as my studies inform me, these notions are symbols (saṃketa). Like drinking - it is the intoxication of the Spirit, the Divine vs. the inebriated state of dis-function.
    Symbolic interpretations are there, but rahasya puja is also cent percent real. Tantras do put vama marga as superior to dakshina (infact they are not different paths). So if one go by Tantras alone, one has to understand vama marga as it is. If one sees Tantras in as a part of vedic dharma and interpret tantras accordingly, things might be seen differently.

    At the end of the day: Scriptures can be interpreted (and more importantly put to use) only according to the sampradaya one belongs to and its only the individuals adhikara which qualifies one for that sampradaya.
    Last edited by sm78; 07 August 2008 at 03:32 AM.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

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    Re: How to follow Tantra Yoga: Left & Right

    Hari O
    ~~~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    Symbolic interpretations are there, but rahasya puja is also cent percent real. Tantras do put vama marga as superior to dakshina (infact they are not different paths). So if one go by Tantras alone, one has to understand vama marga as it is. If one sees Tantras in as a part of vedic dharma and interpret tantras accordingly, things might be seen differently.

    At the end of the day: Scriptures can be interpreted (and more importantly put to use) only according to the sampradaya one belongs to and its only the individuals adhikara which qualifies one for that sampradaya.
    Namaste singhi,

    thank you for your post. Can you give some examples of rahasya puja , what you have seen, the methods, etc.

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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