Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

[Bob G]

Hello Yajvan,

I didn't mean (and I don't think I implied) that Chester Messenger was a True Guru, only a translator that I found on the web.

Below are two short excerpts that you or others may find to be related to this thread:
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From "Merging with Siva" by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami

"...before Parasiva, we should not seek the siddhis. After Parasiva, through samyama, we keep the siddhis we need for our work..."

"...The scriptures are filled with stories of certain rishis who reached high levels, but had given up all their bhakti and japa. When difficult personal karma came, each fell deep into the lower nature, way below the muladhara, to become demon like to society rather than a holy seer and a guiding force."
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I have mostly been a blue-collar working stiff doing three rotating sets of shifts per month at a noisy industrial site to support his little family; I sometimes study the holy books. I have more experience in making mistakes and a lot of the stuff that can go wrong is not new to me; more importantly though I have to agree with the person you interviewed who said he was happy to be a human being... I'll second that

Om

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Yajvan,
You may have read P.N. Mukherji's translation of Swami Hariharananda Aranya's commentary on Patanjali's Yoga

“Yoga Philosophy of Patanjali: Containing His Yoga Aphorisms with Vyasa’s Commentary in Sanskrit and a Translation with Annotations Including Many Suggestions for the Practice of Yoga”, written by Swami Hariharananda Aranya and translated by P.N. Mukherji.

I have not read this book, but I very much doubt that Swami Hariharananda would have disagreed with my comments, so could you please quote something from Swami Hariharananda that actually disagrees with anything that I have said.

And if I have understood your comments correctly, your dvaita “saMyama” may bring bliss for a while, but the fall is inevitable.

I am sorry if this disagrees with your guru's advice,

Namaste sarabhanga (et.al)

Thank you again for your concern as it is greatly appreciated. I can assure you I am in good hands.

I do not wish to find any comments that disagree with your POV or your knowledge. I respect your efforts and time committed on this matter.

I believe I have pursued this subject to an extended maximum, and have given information that is close and dear to me. This practice I pursue is not of the last year or even 10 years. My saMyama and I are old friends.

My practice is not based on books (yet many are in this field for review to compliment ones practice) but on instruction. So if my demise is going to occur I wish it world hurry up!

If we continue the conversation, I am not sure it will bear any fruit. As one will offer knowledge one possesses that is considered greater, or more correct, perhaps wiser, then the others. For this, the ego is fed (one-up-manship) and I am in no need of this, and I am sure you would say the same.
And what would I accomplish? I have won? I have convinced some one that my sadhana is right for me? Where is the wisdom in this? I think I presented my view without malice or arm twisting and all is right with the world.

So, it seems to me we leave it here. I am ok with this. As I have a different orientation, instruction and insight based upon experience.

For those that wish to use, review or cogitate on the posts herein, I leave it to them to consider the knowledge; perhaps some good will come of it or reject it as they see fit.

pranams,

[atanu]

Hello Yajvan,

I didn't mean (and I don't think I implied) that Chester Messenger was a True Guru, only a translator that I found on the web.

Below are two short excerpts that you or others may find to be related to this thread:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From "Merging with Siva" by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami

"...before Parasiva, we should not seek the siddhis. After Parasiva, through samyama, we keep the siddhis we need for our work..."

"...The scriptures are filled with stories of certain rishis who reached high levels, but had given up all their bhakti and japa. When difficult personal karma came, each fell deep into the lower nature, way below the muladhara, to become demon like to society rather than a holy seer and a guiding force."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have mostly been a blue-collar working stiff doing three rotating sets of shifts per month at a noisy industrial site to support his little family; I sometimes study the holy books. I have more experience in making mistakes and a lot of the stuff that can go wrong is not new to me; more importantly though I have to agree with the person you interviewed who said he was happy to be a human being... I'll second that

Om

u r good Bob and u bring value here.

"...before Parasiva, we should not seek the siddhis. After Parasiva, through samyama, we keep the siddhis we need for our work..."

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That is all of scripture that one needs. I just add that after Parasiva, there is no illusion called Karma-- or work, ONLY SAMYAMA.

Om

[Bob G]

Hello Sarabhanga,

Looks like an interesting post from the Mountain Path! I don't have time to read it tonight but will soon. Thanks for all of your contributions to this thread. Now I'm going to tidy up some then hit the sack.

Good night

Om

[sarabhanga]

III. 37

In concentration these are obstacles; in the emergent state they are perfections.

[But] arising [in the yogin] whose mind is emergent, they are perfections.

Occasionally a man, after beginning constraint upon the self as object, acquires those perfections which are subsidiary to this, and thinks because of the power of these [perfections] that he has effected his purpose, and so might cease the constraint.

In concentration, these are obstacles; in the emergent state they are perfections.

For a man whose mind is concentrated must avoid these even when brought near to him.

One who longs for the final goal of life, the absolute assuagement of the three-fold anguish, how could he have any affection for those perfections which go counter to [the attainment] of that [goal]?

III.51

In case of invitations from those in high places, these should arouse no attachment or pride, for undesired consequences recur.

With their high places they invite him. �Sir, will you sit here? Will you rest here? This pleasure might prove attractive. This elixir checks old age and death. This chariot passes through air. Yonder are the Wishing Trees; the Stream of Heaven confers blessedness; the sages are perfected; the nymphs are incomparable and not prudish. Eyes and ears [will become] supernal; the body like diamond. In consequence of your peculiar virtues, Venerable Sir, all these things have been won by you. Have entrance to this high place which is unfading and ageless and deathless and dear to the gods�

Thus addressed let him ponder upon the defects of pleasure.

�Baked upon the horrible coals of the round of rebirths, and writhing in the darkness of birth and of death, I have hardly found the lamp of yoga which makes an end to the obscurations of the hindrances. And of this [lamp] the lust-born gusts of sensual things are enemies. How then could it be that I who have seen its light could be led astray by these things of sense, a mere mirage, and make myself fuel for that same fire of the round of rebirths as it flares up again? Fare ye well! Sensual things [deceitful] as dreams and to be craved by vile folk!�

His purpose thus determined, let him cultivate concentration. Giving up attachment [for things of sense] let him not even take pride in thinking it is he that is thus urgently desired even by the gods. Such a one, if in his pride he deem himself secure, will not feel as if he were one whom Death had gripped by the hair. And so Heedlessness, on the lookout for his weak points and failures, and always carefully to be watched, will have found an opening and will arouse the hindrances.

As a result of this undesired consequences recur.

So then he who in this way does not become attached or take pride will attain permanently the purpose which he has cultivated within, and will find himself face to face with the purpose he has yet to cultivate.

[sarabhanga]

If someone wishes to earn siddhi abilities, there is a method offered.

I know that all True Gurus warn of potential misuse of powers.

I will be happy to review the list you may wish to provide.

Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, Ramana Maharishi, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Vyasa, and Patanjali, have all been quoted in support of the traditional warnings regarding Siddhi.

And, according to Swami Hariharananda Aranya:

These powers are impediments to Samadhi, but are acquisitions in a normal fluctuating state of mind.

When powers are acquired, they prove to be hindrances to the attainment of Samadhi because they stand in the way of realization of the ultimate truth by an engrossed mind. When the mind is fluctuating they are acquisitions.

In Samadhi there is only one object as the prop of a concentrated mind, hence the attainment of powers causes disturbance to such a mind. When aided by the knowledge of the various Tattvas, and by the practice of renunciation, the mind becomes one-pointed, and is completely closed to permeation of knowledge, then only can the state of the Self-being-in-Itself be reached.

Attainment of powers is inimical to that.

Indeed, ALL traditional Hindu authorities give similar warnings regarding Siddhi.

[yajvan]

And, according to Swami Hariharananda Aranya:

These powers are impediments to Samadhi, but are acquisitions in a normal fluctuating state of mind.

When powers are acquired, they prove to be hindrances to the attainment of Samadhi because they stand in the way of realization of the ultimate truth by an engrossed mind. When the mind is fluctuating they are acquisitions..

Namaste,

Fair statements, and meets with my understanding.

Roma locuta est; causa finita est - St. Augustine of Hippo

pranams,

[sarabhanga]

The foundation of all yoga is yama; and, once established in the firm basis of yama, niyama provides the matrix for ascending. In fact, all subsequent stages actually occur entirely within the context of niyama.

niyama relies on the unwavering restraint of yama, and any spiritual ascent relies on the perfect control of niyama. And the whole of yamaniyama can never be ignored in the process of yoga.

There are, of course, three levels of yama ~ yamAniyAma, AsanayAma, and prANAyAma ~ and all three must be applied simultaneously to raise the spirit from dvaitam to the advaita hRdayam. And pratyAhAra occurs in the taijasa of the anAhata cakra, where the purity of the light is maintained by the continuous application of yAma.

And saMyama absolutely requires all of the above.

If any desire arises, then duality is certainly implied, and the spirit has surely descended below the heart cakra ~ with yAma perhaps intact, but with pratyAhAra (and thus all of saMyama) lost.

If one wishes to eat, or desires to read a book, or even has any awareness of the external environment, then saMyama is certainly not being practiced correctly.

The three-fold yAma may be practiced with occasional desires and diverse thoughts arising, but the three-fold saMyama is impossible. And if one is still walking around and having the initial desire to sit down and meditate, then the ten-fold yamAniyAma may be intact, but Asana and prANAyAma, which transfix both the physical frame and the vital breath, have certainly not been applied, and the frame and the mind and the breath are all wandering in dvaitam.

Any personal notions of gaining physical strength and collecting diverse knowledge all pertain to levels below the heart cakra, which are all relatively dualistic conditions. But saMyama occurs beyond the hRdaya, in the head cakras.

All desires create unnecessary attachments.

saMyama is the perfect self-control of the AtmayAjin (one who sacrifices himself) who is kAmAvasAyitAra (one who suppresses or destroys passion or desire).

siddhi is synonymous with saMnyAsa and avadhUta.

The five-fold attainment of aNiman, laghiman, prApti, prAkAmyam, and mahiman, together confers Ishitvam and vashitvam, all of which presupposes kAmAvasAya (the suppression of all passion and desire).

In advaitavAda, siddhi presupposes kAmAvasAya and saMnyAsa, and the siddhi can never be explicit or independently exerted in the realm of dvaitam. If personal siddhi is desired, it will not be achieved; and if siddhi is displayed, then moksha will be lost.

In dvaitavAda, however, kAmAvasAya is assumed as a siddhi itself, with desires being suppressed by their own satisfaction. The siddhi, of course, can only be used for good purpose, with ahiMsA being always presumed. And immortal existence may be gained, although this is an endless existence as a fixed presence amid the flux of continuous dvaitam throughout the manvantaram but destroyed along with the three worlds at the end, and reborn again in the next manvantaram to try again.

advaitavAda presumes saMnyAsa and aims for praj�A and moksha; while dvaitavAda is vAnaprastha and kshatriya dharma, aiming for Aj�A (command and control) and prajana (begetting and growth) and amRta (salvation and non-death) and transcendence to bhuvarloka (in the air), but not the final step of moksha (liberation) and ajana (dissolution and non-birth).

Anyone �wishing for siddhi� should be aware of what they might actually get with such a desire, and also of what they will lose in this deal with the devil of dvaitam.

The siddha king in dvaitam expects a return, and will be reborn and thus die again; while the siddha priest in advaitam expects nothing, and is exempt from rebirth and thus saved from all potential suffering and subsequent deaths.

The dvaita tantram is an endless loom, with great responsibility for any man who would take its charge; while the advaita tantram casts off all threads of attachment and finally rests unbound and in peace.

samAdhi is the blossoming of saMyama, but its seed germinates only in pratyAhAra, which itself depends on maintaining the perfect substratum of yAma.

saMyama absolutely depends on the simultaneous application of yAma.

The various limbs of yoga are explained separately for logical convenience, and they are grasped sequentially in preliminary practice, but it must be understood that the yoga itself comes in a perfect union of all limbs in simultaneous application.

yoga depends on the union of yama and niyama.

yoga depends on the union of yamAniyAma and AsanayAma and prANAyAma.

yoga depends on the union of dhAraNa and dhyAnam and samAdhi.

yoga depends on the union of saMyAma and saMyama.

And yoga depends on pratyAhAra ~ �withdrawal of the senses from external objects�, �dissolution of the world�, or �abstraction�.

yoga depends on yamaniyama (yamAniyAma), and pratyAhAra, and samAdhi (saMyama) ~ indeed, yoga is synonymous with these unified and unifying abstractions, and the two wings of yamAniyAma and samAdhi are united by pratyAhAra in the hRdayam.

Every limb of yoga is individually beneficial (in dvaitam), but the true yoga of sage pata�jali requires the simultaneous application of ALL limbs. And this unified approach leads directly to moksha and the ultimate siddhi.

If any desire arises, then duality is certainly implied, and the spirit has surely descended below the heart cakra ~ with yAma perhaps intact, but with pratyAhAra (and thus all of saMyama) lost.

If one wishes to eat, or desires to read a book, or even has any awareness of the external environment, then saMyama is certainly not being practiced correctly.

The three-fold yAma may be practiced with occasional desires and diverse thoughts arising, but the three-fold saMyama is impossible. And if one is still walking around and having the initial desire to sit down and meditate, then the ten-fold yamAniyAma may certainly be intact, but Asana and prANAyAma, which transfix both the physical frame and the vital breath, have certainly not been applied, and the frame and the mind and the breath are all wandering in dvaitam.

Any personal notions of gaining physical strength and collecting diverse knowledge all pertain to levels below the heart cakra, which are all relatively dualistic conditions. But saMyama occurs in the advaita hRdayam and beyond.

All desires create unnecessary attachments.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

All desires create unnecessary attachments.

namaste,

...and what of the desire for Moksha?

pranams,

[sarabhanga]

There is only ONE true desire, and that one heart�s desire is the singular promise of all true vedAnta !

moksha = yoga = yama = advaita = shiva