Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~

There is only ONE true desire, and that one heart�s desire is the singular promise of all true vedAnta ! moksha = yoga = yama = advaita = shiva

Namaste sarabhanga,
then how to reconcile in ones mind,

All desires create unnecessary attachments.

Are the caveats to this?

pranams,

[sarabhanga]

How can this be so difficult to grasp?

moksha is the satisfaction yama; yama is the fulfillment of yoga, yoga is the reconciliation of dvaitam, and advaitam is shiva.

There is only ONE true desire, and that one heart’s desire is the desire and the promise of true vedAnta !

moksha = yama = yoga = advaita = shiva

Desire for advaitam arises in the mAyA of dvaitam, and in advaitam (of course) no such desire can arise (indeed, the whole dualistic notion of desire is inapplicable).

patañjali provides the introduction; one’s own self provides the materials; yama provides the method of yoga; and yoga is both the method and the result, which is moksha; and the conclusion is advaitam and shiva.

Have you actually read any upaniSad? Or perhaps your dvaitavAda is so entrenched that you have entirely missed the point of advaitam (?) If so, there seems to be no possibility of agreement here, since I understand dvaita yoga as an impossible contradiction.

[Rajalakshmi]

Namaste Shri yajvanji,

There is a lot implied here. While practicing saMyama and one experiences samadhi , then no desires are present, perfect samasta. So agreed, this is a desireless state.
Yet while doing ones daily routine and desires flow, this activity does not prevent saMyama from being effective when practiced. That is, during daily activity there are desires...I wish to have a meal or a cookie , or I desire to read a book. I desire to sit in my room and meditate. All desires. None stop them from ones saMyama.

No, it is not possible to have a desired filled day, and yet attain saMyama. This is why, Yoga insists on the strong foundation of yama and niyama. Doing one's daily activities without desires will not however interfere with saMyama. Having a meal or cookie is not a desire as it is a mandatory activity. The need to sustain life will require some minimal activity. Even doing all worldly activities are not a problem.

This is why Bhagavad Gita lays utmost stress on nishkAma karma. Without the foundation of desirelessness ( even while involved in any activity), the very Yoga is lost.

I am sure there are these people... the notion of my post is for saMyama to occur one need to practice meditation over time. Tamasic behaviors are reduced and begin their elimination, negativity is neutralized. The siddhis do not flourish till the stress, negativity and tamasic tendencies are resolved.

Yes!

So the good news is, by ones practice to have siddhis blossom, purity is gained and the Ulterior motives become washed away... that is the best kept secret of this approach.
So , if ulterior motives are the motivating desire that gets an individual to practice of Dharana & Dhyana, then so be it. By this method one becomes closer to the SELF, and ulterior motives soon become dissolved.

Yes, you are right to some extent. But it is not sufficient to indulge in dhyAna, without first eliminating all ulterior motives. This is why dhAraNa/dhyAna are only the sixth limb of Yoga and not the first. Desirelessness must be attained though the practice of yama and niyama, before any benefit will accrue from the other limbs. dhyAna by itself will not wash away ulterior motives, but nishkAma karma will do so. dhyAna for the sake for siddhis or any other motives is definitely not nishkAma karma.

Do you know of any sadhus in this condition? I know of none.

I have no reservations, not a speck of doubt that Patanjali's wisdom here serves the spiritual development of the sadhu.

Thank you again for the post, and your thoughts on this matter.

Yes, the purANas are full of stories of people who have indulged in tapasyA for the sole sake of achieiving some siddhis like Lordship of the world. These people even have samAdhi due to sheer force of will, having some visions of Shiva and Brahma and other gods and attain boons, but the penance by itself rarely helps one to overcome the basal tendencies of the mind.

Patanjali is giving the result of various siddhis for the sAdhaka to measure himself as to where he stands with regards to spiritual growth. Getting siddhis is a certain progress because it is a good sign that somebody is getting knowledge of subtler principles of the universe. However, this knowledge by itself is not useful unless it will culminate with the knowledge of Atma - any intermediate location will not lead to mukti. siddhis may certainly be used - only for the purpose of motivating oneself into the highest stage of Yoga. Certain siddhis may even be useful for the Yoga itself - for eg, knolwedge of previous births may help understand on'es own mistakes in the past and will ensure that only the right path will be trodden this time.

All siddhis not directly useful for self realization may be ignored. After attaining the realization, siddhi maybe used if one still feel's so. Remember, we are at the lowest stage now. We have no power or siddhis. If the desire to enjoy siddhis will happen to us at this time, the temptation will be irresistible when you actually get them.

~RL

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

No, it is not possible to have a desired filled day, and yet attain saMyama.
~RL

Namaste Rajalakshmi

your posts have been consistent and focused and easy to understand, thank you for this.

I am not sure what desires you may be thinking of, yet when one wakes and thinks, I will have some breakfast, that is a desire. I think I want to read, or go exercise. That is a desire. Some desires become so habitual, that one could say that is not a desire, I just do it. That is how subtle desires can be. Just want to see if we can agree on the 'intensity' of the desire. It does not have to be a desire to conquer the world, to want to own China, or 1000 cars, or 1000 houses.

That said, let me ask again Rajalakshmi, do you practice saMyama? Do you speak from personal experience? I have asked this of you and of others , yet await the responses.

Why do I ask? Many have offered posts suggesting what is good vs. what is perhaps a trap on this matter. Yet I hear of no personal experience, as this is of great value.

It's as if one goes to a doctor, but the doctor never had a chance to have a real patient. The doctor knows all the body parts, as he/she knows technically what to do, seen in a book, or heard from others, yet has not had a patient to apply the knowledge on. Or the neighbor that assists others with managing their children, yet does not have children of his own. While the information can be 'directionally correct', it also will be 'precisely wrong'.

It is knowledge + experience that rounds out ones skills... This together IMHO is called wisdom.

So from my POV of what value is saMyama? How will it assist ? Flying, or lifting mountains, or becoming tiny or large? This is like candy attracting the children to do their homework. The intent is simple and can be found in the Kathoupanishad (Chapt 2.2.6):
A wise man, having understood that the senses, separately produced, are distinct from the Atman ( Purusha) and also their rising and setting, grieves no more. Grieves no more = kevela.

Last and only offered as an fyi... there is no argument, quote, position, discussion or metaphor one could offer on HDF that would change my practice. I choose not to be a boat in the water of life with no rudder, going from here to there by the whim of the wind. The rudder is my teacher(s), the boat, the wisdom of knowledge of the shastras graciously offered with no expectation in return.

My resolve is firm, my direction clear; I do not harbor one miniscule doubt on my direction. To this I offer my pranams to the tradition that afforded and offers this wisdom, handed down from guru-to-sisya over the ages.

dhanyavadah

[sarabhanga]

All desires (no matter how subtle or apparently trivial) create unnecessary attachments. And the proper attitude for sAdhanA is selfless resignation to one’s sacred duty, willingly performed but with no implication of personal desire ~ with the bonds of yama and the vows of dIkshA ensuring that personal desire does not enter into the equation of any true sAdhanA.

The sage advice of patañjali and of vyAsa has been given, and all other advice has only been repeating their traditional wisdom. And whatever one’s personal practice might be, it is the words of patañjali which provide the ultimate definition of aSTAÑga yoga.

The various limbs of yoga are explained separately for logical convenience, and they are grasped sequentially in preliminary practice, but it must be understood that the yoga itself comes in a perfect union of all limbs in simultaneous application.

yoga depends on the union of yama and niyama.

yoga depends on the union of yamAniyAma and AsanayAma and prANAyAma.

yoga depends on the union of dhAraNa and dhyAnam and samAdhi.

yoga depends on the union of saMyAma and saMyama.

And yoga depends on pratyAhAra ~ “withdrawal of the senses from external objects”, “dissolution of the world”, or “abstraction”.

Every limb of yoga is individually beneficial (in dvaitam), but the true yoga of sage patañjali requires the simultaneous application of ALL limbs. And this unified approach leads directly to moksha and the ultimate siddhi.

In advaitavAda, siddhi presupposes kAmAvasAya and saMnyAsa, and the siddhi can never be explicit or independently exerted in the realm of dvaitam. If personal siddhi is desired, it will not be achieved; and if siddhi is displayed, then moksha will be lost.

In dvaitavAda, however, kAmAvasAya is assumed as a siddhi itself, with desires being suppressed by their own satisfaction. The siddhi, of course, can only be used for good purpose, with ahiMsA being always presumed. And immortal existence may be gained, although this is an endless existence as a fixed presence amid the flux of continuous dvaitam throughout the manvantaram but destroyed along with the three worlds at the end, and reborn again in the next manvantaram to try again.

advaitavAda presumes saMnyAsa and aims for prajñA and moksha; while dvaitavAda is vAnaprastha and kshatriya dharma, aiming for AjñA (command and control) and prajana (begetting and growth) and amRta (salvation and non-death) and transcendence to bhuvarloka (in the air), but not the final step of moksha (liberation) and ajana (dissolution and non-birth).

In dvaitam, kevala means “exclusively one’s own (not common to others)”, indicating perfect distinction. While in advaitam, the meaning is without any hint of “otherness”, indicating perfect solitude, absolute oneness, total abstraction, absolution, purity, singularity, and simplicity, as the unalloyed wisdom of the whole.

siddhi (accomplishment or perfection) has quite different connotations in dvaitavAda and advaitavAda.

dhArana and dhyAnam may be practiced in isolation, and “saMyama” in dvaitam may lead to a kind of oneness with the object of concentrated attention, the focus of the meditation, and thus full control of that object may ultimately be gained. But advaitam and the ultimate siddhi of moksha are not attained without the simultaneous application of ALL limbs.

The “magic” of siddha yoga in dvaitam is the satisfaction of all desires as they arise, but the root cause of those recurring desires (i.e. dvaitam) is never extinguished; while the full discipline of aSTAÑga yoga renounces any personal desire from the outset, and aims for moksha and kaivalyam (“absolute unity, perfect abstraction, detachment from all other connections, detachment of the soul from its bondage to matter and thus from its duty of further transmigrations”, or simply “beatitude”) which is advaitam.

dvaita yoga aims for AjñA cakra, and possession of the full range of diverse siddhi; while advaita yoga aims for sahasrAra cakra, and the one perfect siddhi.

And, assuming that the heart and mind are already purified, saMyama may be practiced without regard to physical Asana or subtle prANAyAma (which are assumed to be perfectly maintained in all situations). But there is much presupposed in this “patañjali-lite”, which certainly presumes saMskAra and saMnyAsa.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

All desires (no matter how subtle or apparently trivial) create unnecessary attachments. And the proper attitude for sAdhanA is selfless resignation to one’s sacred duty, willingly performed but with no implication of personal desire ~ with the bonds of yama and the vows of dIkshA ensuring that personal desire does not enter into the equation of any true sAdhanA.

Namaste,

perhaps this is so.... yet 'proper attitude' is still one more action, a desire to act in a particualar way, done in avidya, still done in duality. Yet intent is good and positive, the best choice one can make while still in this condition.

Some say this is making a 'mood' of things and this too is one more attachment.

pranams

[Bob G]

Spirit can see ego for what it is or is not, ego can not see Spirit at all.

Without egoless help, ego is not seen through - for ego is devious beyond compare.

Unconditional love is an irresistable and unfailing weapon in the great battle we face.

[sarabhanga]

'proper attitude' is a desire ... to act ... in avidya

�All desires create unnecessary attachments� ~ with a caveat that �there is only ONE true desire, and that one heart�s desire is the singular promise of all true vedAnta.�

You quoted the caveat, and then asked, �Are there caveats to this?� !

I have further explained that �desire for advaitam arises in the mAyA of dvaitam, and in advaitam (of course) no such desire can arise (indeed, the whole dualistic notion of desire is inapplicable).�

And again elaborated that �all desires (no matter how subtle or apparently trivial) create unnecessary attachments. And the proper attitude for sAdhanA is selfless resignation to one�s sacred duty, willingly performed but with no implication of personal desire ~ with the bonds of yama and the vows of dIkshA ensuring that personal desire does not enter into the equation of any true sAdhanA.�

'proper attitude' is still one more action, a desire to act in a particular way, done in avidya, still done in duality.

Now, your response shows that you have (once again) either misinterpreted or completely ignored my words!

In the condition of SELFLESS RESIGNATION to one�s SACRED DUTY, there is NO IMPLICATION OF PERSONAL DESIRE, which results quite automatically since the bonds of yama and the vows of dIkshA ensure that personal desire does not enter into the equation of any true sAdhanA.

mumukshA (the desire for moksha) and dIkshA arise only in the context of dvaitam, and dIkshA is the turning point.

With dIkshA, any avidyA (in the mumukshu) should be matched with true vidyA (in the guru); and with true sAdhanA there should be single-pointed focus in every action, so that all actions become one action leading inevitably to the one aim of the sAdhanA.

�Proper attitude� is what determines dharma, so you are now suggesting that dharma, along with dIkshA, is without vidyA !! And such an attitude is surely improper for any discussion of sAdhanA !!!

[Rajalakshmi]

Hari Om
~~~~~



Namaste,

perhaps this is so.... yet 'proper attitude' is still one more action, a desire to act in a particualar way, done in avidya, still done in duality. Yet intent is good and positive, the best choice one can make while still in this condition.

Some say this is making a 'mood' of things and this too is one more attachment.

pranams

Sage VishvAmitra is perhaps the best example for Yogis and the effect of siddhis.

1. He is initially a powerful kshatriya known as Kaushika.
2. It is his desire for kAmadhenu ( boundless powers) that makes him renounce the world and seek asceticism. However, at this stage his mind is not yet set on Brahma vidyA, as he is seen at odds with the pinnacle of perfection - vashishTa. But he desires to become equal to vashishTa without realizing that such equality is possible only in advaitaM and not in dvaitaM.( i.e by possessing any amount of siddhis)

3. Repeated attempts of vishvAmitra to subdue vashishTa fail showing that Brahma-jnAna cannot be accomplished as long as one is showing off.

4. VishvAmitra then looses all his tapasyA for apparently trying to do good for the king trishanku - display of siddhis by making heavenly worlds ruins all previous efforts. This is to show that even doing good for others using ones siddhis is harmful to oneself. If doing good for others were benefecial, there are many Yogis living even now, who can turn the earth into a paradise by their mere wish. But how can they do that, without jeopardizing thier own moksha? So the wisemen are just onlookers - they see the world as a leela of bhagavAn and do not consider themselves as being capable of changing the way it functions- and leave their siddhis behind.

5. Starting afresh, vishvAmitra peformed penance for a thousand years and obtained the title of rAjarishi - showing great advancement.

6. At this point, he falls to the charm of Menaka ( which is a siddhi) and wasted his efforts again.

7. Then he recovered again, and perfromed another thousand years in the Himalayas and became a maharishi, a stage of further purity and exalted stage.

8. Next time he is approached by another siddhi, he showed his anger and again lost his tapasyA. One must have equanimity towards siddhis and must be indifferent to them - neither desire them nor show aversion either! Desire and aversion are both colors! Nevertheless, it shows one more stage of progress as he has turned down Rambha.

9. Reflecting on his repeated failure due to his attachment and aversion of various forms, vishvAmitra then continued undisturbed sAdhana lasting for a long time - and attained the advaita samAdhi, or absolute equality with vashishTa.( as brahma rishi)


All these stories are mentioned for our benefit. We must not confront vashishTa with the aim of overcoming him, but with the aim of attaining oneness with him - this is possible only by adopting the advaitaM approach. dvaitaM approach of seeking siddhis and Ananda in lower realms is a rather circuitous way and leads to many hurdles on the way.

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4.4.6 makes this issue clear - The man who desires transmigrates. But as to the man who does not desire�who is without desire, who is freed from desire, whose desire is satisfied, whose only object of desire is the Self�his organs do not depart. Being Brahman, he merges in Brahman.


~RL

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste sarabhanga

I find it difficult at best to reconcile the posts that you have offered and take full responsibility for my comprehension. I am not asking for any additional clarifications here. I have have not suggested what you allude to, but do find it interesting you have come to these conclusions.

Be that as it may, this post IMHO is no longer a conversation on sharing ideas, inspection, and the like, and I choose disengage. Also - I want to thank you for the scoldings ... I am sure there is some good to come of it; I am sure they are well intended.

How can this be so difficult to grasp?

The grasping has been one of discussion.

Have you actually read any upaniSad?

Yes, but I do not have the need to convience others that I have done so.

you have (once again) either misinterpreted or completely ignored my words!

No comment.

And such an attitude is surely improper for any discussion of sAdhanA !!!

No comment.



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pranams