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Thread: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

  1. #11
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    Post Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Namaste Yajvan,

    saMyama is the perfect self-control of the AtmayAjin who is kAmAvasAyitAra.

    saMyama = turya
    samAdhi = prAjña
    dhyAnam = taijasa
    dhAraNa = vaishvAnara


    And no effort is implied, with the divine restraints themselves doing all the “work”.

    siddhi is “accomplishment, performance, fulfillment, complete attainment, success, hitting the mark, healing the disease, curing the doubt, advantage, validity, settlement, payment, reward, prosperity, fortune, good luck, liquidation, solution, establishment, preparation, maturation, substantiation, settlement, demonstration, proof, indisputable conclusion, readiness, result, decision, adjudication, or determination”. And siddhi is synonymous with saMnyAsa and avadhUta.

    siddhi is “supreme felicity, bliss, beatitude, complete sanctification, final emancipation, or perfection”.

    And siddhi implies the vanishing of mAyA, the disappearance of any personal self, going away from normal perception, and making one’s self invisible.

    The five-fold attainment of aNiman, laghiman, prApti, prAkAmyam, and mahiman, together confers Ishitvam and vashitvam, all of which presupposes kAmAvasAya (the suppression of all passion and desire).

    siddhi is “a magical shoe conveying the wearer wherever he likes” (the pAdukA viSNu), and thus “supernatural power attained by magical means”.

    And siddhi is “skill, faculty, capability, dexterity, art, efficacy, efficiency, understanding, intellect, becoming clear or intelligible”, and “the display of various good qualities in one person” or “a work of art”.

    In advaitavAda, siddhi presupposes kAmAvasAya and saMnyAsa, and the siddhi can never be explicit or independently exerted in the realm of dvaitam. If personal siddhi is desired, it will not be achieved; and if siddhi is displayed, then moksha will be lost.

    In dvaitavAda, however, kAmAvasAya is assumed as siddhi itself, with desires being suppressed by their own satisfaction. The siddhi, of course, can only be used for good purpose, with ahiMsA being always presumed. And immortal existence may be gained, but this is an endless existence as a fixed presence amid the flux of continuous dvaitam throughout the manvantaram, but destroyed along with the three worlds at the end, and reborn again in the next manvantaram to try again.

    advaitavAda presumes saMnyAsa and aims for prajñA and moksha; while dvaitavAda is vAnaprastha and kshatriya dharma, aiming for AjñA (command and control) and prajana (begetting and growth) and amRta (salvation and non-death) and transcendence to bhuvarloka (into the air), but not the final step of moksha (liberation) and ajana (dissolution and non-birth).

    Anyone “wishing for siddhi” should be aware of what they might actually get with such a desire, and also of what they will lose in this deal with the devil of dvaitam.

    The siddha king in dvaitam expects a return, and will be reborn and thus die again; while the siddha priest in advaitam expects nothing, and is exempt from rebirth and thus saved from all potential suffering and subsequent deaths.

    I fully support Bob’s cautionary comments here ~ there is a very fine line in practice, with quite opposing potential results when that line is crossed. And I wonder at the wisdom of advising that siddhi is available and to be wished for.

    The dvaita tantram is an endless loom, with great responsibility for any man who would take its charge; while the advaita tantram casts off all threads of attachment and finally rests unbound and in peace.

  2. #12
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    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga View Post
    ~ there is a very fine line in practice, with quite opposing potential results when that line is crossed. And I wonder at the wisdom of advising that siddhi is available and to be wished for.
    Namaste sarabhanga,
    thank you for your response and points well made.

    Life is a fine line too, no? Good vs. Bad, too much vs. not enough. Give a person a bat, and one person goes and plays baseball, another hits another over the head to steal their pocket book.

    Siddhi is no different.
    I see your point being made and respect your views and BobG's. Yet one thing I ask you (both) to consider. Siddhi results do not come without purification and the infusion of pure consciousness. This infusion is self-regulating for the sadhu.

    It is not as if one opens Patanjaji's book , reads the sutra on being invisible and zap, one is translucent walking in and robbing a bank.

    'Perfection' comes with practice, practice purifies the sadhu. Purification infuses proper dharma and right action. From this action the sadhu acts accordingly and within the laws of nature. This is why my POV is what it is.

    I have the greatest confidence in Patanjali's metodology and confidence of this self-regulating pure consciousness. Of this I do not have one speck of doubt.

    I also wrote with my first post,
    If someone wishes to earn siddhi abilities, there is a method offered, that of Samyama.
    Siddhis are earned. If some one 'wishes' for these abilties, that is about as far as they will get , a wish. As If I get in an elevator and wish to got to the 5th floor, I can wish all day, but will not move till I push the 5th floor button. Like that, one needs the proper approach. That is sanyama. Samyama comes with time, practice and purification.

    I am not talking theory here. I am talking personal practice and instruction. It is key (for me) that when one talks of these matters, that some personal experience has taken place to form a POV. Otherwise the conversation is all throry, with no taste of the practice.


    pranams,
    Last edited by yajvan; 09 January 2008 at 09:50 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
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    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
    Hello Yajvan,

    I was not responding to your posts or views per-se although my posts did happen to come in sequence to your posts. I was responding more to the first post by Skhandelwal along with some of the other threads that he
    has started concerning powers of the mind.
    Hello BG,
    Okay and makes sense.... I think the discussion has lead to good knowledge and worth the discussion.

    Yes, these powers of the mind are attractive to most stepping on to the path and perhaps even enticing as I see it. A vision of possibilities as my teacher talks of it.

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14

    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Ok, interms of chakra, how does siddhis work? I mean if a person gains enlightenment, does he automatically attain all the siddhis? Meaning, is gaining a siddhi matter of opening chakras?

    Thanks.

  5. #15

    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Hello Skhandelwal, Thank you for your questions and getting this thread started.

    Hello Sarabhanga and Yajvan, Thank you both for your varied and informative posts.

    There is a great deal of talk of chakras going on in certain circles. (light-hearted pun intended)
    Anyway, I presently have the pov. that most of that interesting mind-stuff if attained can be like possible fringe benefits (so to speak) of deeper realization; but it can also sideline one into all sorts of trouble.

    Thus I find the following saying from the Chandogya upanishad to not be pointing at possible fringe benefits but at the core truth (from which such fringe benefits may arise and be well employed instead of being potential mind-traps)

    "That Self abides in the heart. The etymological explanation of heart is this: This one (ayam) is in the heart (hridi); therefore It is called the heart (hridayam). He who knows this goes every day in deep sleep to Heaven (i.e. Brahman, dwelling in the heart).


    Om


    Last edited by Bob G; 09 January 2008 at 12:23 PM.

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    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by skhandelwal View Post
    Ok, interms of chakra, how does siddhis work? I mean if a person gains enlightenment, does he automatically attain all the siddhis? Meaning, is gaining a siddhi matter of opening chakras?
    Thanks.
    Namaste skhandelwal,

    You ask how do siddhi's work...to this I refer you to the study of the Patanjali's Yoga Darsana ( or his Yoga Sutras). There is no fast track, no 'minute rice'. All your questions assuming you choose a good translation and author will be answered there.

    To start with siddhi's as a spiritual pursuit without laying the foundation for them will not bear fruit. This has been my point for all these posts.

    For you to understand these abilities more, is to study. And if you look at Patanjali's book note the 4 chapters (pada). His first chapter is samadhi pada. Patanjali's wisdom shines through with the first chapter to lay the foundation for spiritual growth and is well thought out.

    for now this is all I have to contribute on this string.

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #17
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    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G View Post
    "That Self abides in the heart. The etymological explanation of heart is this: This one (ayam) is in the heart (hridi); therefore It is called the heart (hridayam). He who knows this goes every day in deep sleep to Heaven (i.e. Brahman, dwelling in the heart).
    Hello BG,
    Is it your opinion that the heart that is discussed in the shastras is the physical heart?

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18

    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Hello Yajvan,

    My opinion is that I'm not a qualified teacher...and to perhaps insert three words of blue into the Upanisad below, and also that you my deeply studied, practiced, and kind Hindu brother - knows well of this particular Upanisad.
    --------------------

    Chandogya Upanisad, chapter 8

    'Now , here in this fort of Brahman there is a small lotus (of the heart), a dwelling place, and within it, a small space. In that space there is something--and that's what you should try to discover, that's what you should seek to perceive.'

    If they ask him: 'yes here in this fort of Brahman there is a small lotus, a dwelling place and within it a small space. But what is there in that space that we should try to discover, that we should seek to percieve?'-- He should reply: As vast as the space here around us is, is this space within the heart, and within it are contained both earth and sky, both fire and wind, both sun and moon, both lightning and stars. What belongs here to this space around us, as well as what does not--all that is contained within it.'

    If they ask him further: 'In this fort of Brahman is contained the whole world, all beings, and all desires. In that case, when old age overtakes it or when it perishes, what is then left?'--he should reply: 'That does not age, as this body grows old; that is not killed, when this body is slain--that is the real fort of Brahman, in it are contained all desires. That is the self free from evils--free from old age and death, free from sorrow, free from hunger and thirst; the self whose desires and intentions become real.

    'As subjects of a king here in this world settle down as instructed, and whatever frontier they covet--whatever region, whatever piece of land--they make a living on it; and as here in this world the possession of a territory won by action comes to an end, so in the hereafter a world won by merit comes to an end.

    'So, those here in this world who depart without having discovered the self and those real desires do not obtain complete freedom of movement in any of the worlds, whereas those here in this world who depart after discovering the self and these real desires obtain complete freedom of movement in all worlds.


    Good day


    Om

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    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Namaste All: I've been following this discussion somewhat. I think part of the problem is that sometimes the teachers (Patanjali, Tirumular, perhaps some modern gurus) etc.) who do have the knowledge have given out knowledge via words or books (or books recorded by listeners) to the general public, when in fact much of the general public is nowhere near the point of readiness to understand these concepts. My analogy would be trying to teach calculus to my Grade 6 class. Some may memorize a few details, but they certainly won't understand it. You need a better background than Grade 6, obviously. So if you are still occasionally angry, jealous, fearful, or holding onto any of the other base emotions, then it is clear you haven't mastered any basics. (gotten steadfast at the muladhara) I know from personal experience that sometimes it is difficult for a teacher of any kind to get down to the level of the student. That is why virtue is the first step. That is why I disagree with new agers taking yoga and teaching it without the prerequisites of virtue. I agree with Bob G. that it can lead you to places you're not ready for. Patience is the key. We don't just naturally jump up the chakras. It takes persistent sadhana and hard work. Fortunately we Hindus believe in reincarnation, which certainly allows for more patience. Also traditional gurus usually teach their close disciples (those that ARE ready) orally, one on one. Then the intricacies can be explored with correct feedback etc. Just a few rambling thoughts..Aum Namasivaya

  10. #20
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    Re: Ajna- The third eye Chakra(how to stop judging)

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste BobG,
    This 'heart area' is a common theme. Another Upanishad that comes to mind is the Kathopanishad, valli 3, sloka 17.

    Krsna also calls this out several times in the Bhagavad Gita - he says He resides in all Beings, or sarva-bhuta-stham within ones heart.

    So the question is what is this heart? is it filled with blood and pumping or is it hrtaya looked at this way: the region of the heart as the seat of feelings and sensations.
    This hrtaya (हृदय) is also known as centre or core or essence, best or dearest, most secret part of anything.

    We also find in the Upanishads that Brahman resides in the right eye. And if we look to the Mundakopanishad we find His heart is the Universe or hridayam-visvam ( Chapt 2.1.4).

    In my studies I find no place , no thing , no where that He is Not , this Brahman. He is ubiquitous in the present, the past and the future, all at the same time.

    There is no doubt He resides in the heart of all, at the level feeling, physical, mental, front, back and all sides and directions. These are not my words, the Upanishads says it like this - He is very luminous, without form, He is both within and without, unborn (ajah) without prana ( or apranah - breathless), without mind, pure and greater then the great, indestructible One. (Munduka Upanishad 2.1.1)

    pranams
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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