Trying to find my place within the Hindu religion

[Bhava dasa]

I am also concerned because everything that I asked, no matter how detailed, seems to answered with "chant more" or "read more".

Having been an ISKCON devotee for over 30 years, I find this response a little unusual. There must be something you're leaving out here. I could understand that response if you asked a question, were given an answer, rejected it...and asked the same question again. But, to respond in that way to someone who is submissively inquisitive doesn't make sense.

One of the questions I have is why don't we just pray to Vishnu instead of Krishna if Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu?

Is this one of the questions you are referring to above? What was their response?

I've been emailing the Temples here in the city but have not had replies. Is it appropriate to visit?

Of course. But how did you ask the question before?

How does one "choose" which God to worship? If I were to follow my heart, it would be Vishnu.

What do you wish to gain from your worship?

[c.smith]

Bhava dasa

Thank-you for your thoughtful reply.

In terms of some of my questions:

I was told that Vishnu is an avatar of Krishna, that Krishna is the original God - there is no one above him. Funny thing, I thought that Krishna was the 8th incarnation of Vishnu. Am I correct?

In terms of asking questions only to get the "chant more/read more" reply, one of my questions pertains to my relationship of 6 years to my partner. I was told by a "Spiritual Master" that I had to give up this relationship or I would never be able to have the guidance of a Guru. I realize that sex is only for procreative purposes but having to give up my relationship? I don't think so. As a result, I have explored and am comfortable with Lord Shiva. Some might say that it is the easy way, but I'm finding through meditation and contemplation that this is more in tune with my spiritual values. Said "Spiritual Master" and a few devotees are the ones proclaiming that Vishnu is an avatar of Krishna. Further, I was told that Krishna appeared as the 8th incarnation because he was needed at the time for spiritual revival.

Some of the questions I have must be answered with more than chanting, yet I'm told that if I put my thoughts out to Krishna that the answer will come. Again, some are about my realtionship, but many are the same questions I answered as a child. In my early childhood my parents weren't able to respond, so the preacher (I grew up Christian) was called and couldn't answer as well. I won't go into all of the questions, but some pertain to creation. Adam and Eve sort of stuff. Christianity couldn't satisfactorly answer my queries.

I feel that I have found my place with Shiva. I pretty much believed everything that I was told by ISKCON without reservation. Perhaps the chanting that was perscribed has taken me to Lord Shiva. Some might say that it's any easy way out by not accepting all that ISKCON has to offer, but if I truly follow where I'm being guided today, Lord Shiva is where I need to be.

I hope that I've been clear with my convictions and am satisfied with what I'm learning in relation to Lord Shiva and the Vedas. I look forward to satsang with a new group that has come my way. I am finally getting the replies from the Hindu organizations that I've contacted.

Again, many thanks for your efforts. But even Krishna (and ISKCON) says that there are other ways to self realization.

[c.smith]

Bhava dasa

Thank-you for your thoughtful reply.

In terms of some of my questions:

I was told that Vishnu is an avatar of Krishna, that Krishna is the original God - there is no one above him. Funny thing, I thought that Krishna was the 8th incarnation of Vishnu. Am I correct?

In terms of asking questions only to get the "chant more/read more" reply, one of my questions pertains to my relationship of 6 years to my partner. I was told by a "Spiritual Master" that I had to give up this relationship or I would never be able to have the guidance of a Guru. I realize that sex is only for procreative purposes but having to give up my relationship? I don't think so. As a result, I have explored and am comfortable with Lord Shiva. Some might say that it is the easy way, but I'm finding through meditation and contemplation that this is more in tune with my spiritual values. Said "Spiritual Master" and a few devotees are the ones proclaiming that Vishnu is an avatar of Krishna. Further, I was told that Krishna appeared as the 8th incarnation because he was needed at the time for spiritual revival.

Some of the questions I have must be answered with more than chanting, yet I'm told that if I put my thoughts out to Krishna that the answer will come. Again, some are about my realtionship, but many are the same questions I answered as a child. In my early childhood my parents weren't able to respond, so the preacher (I grew up Christian) was called and couldn't answer as well. I won't go into all of the questions, but some pertain to creation. Adam and Eve sort of stuff. Christianity couldn't satisfactorly answer my queries.

I feel that I have found my place with Shiva. I pretty much believed everything that I was told by ISKCON without reservation. Perhaps the chanting that was perscribed has taken me to Lord Shiva. Some might say that it's any easy way out by not accepting all that ISKCON has to offer, but if I truly follow where I'm being guided today, Lord Shiva is where I need to be.

I hope that I've been clear with my convictions and am satisfied with what I'm learning in relation to Lord Shiva and the Vedas. I look forward to satsang with a new group that has come my way. I am finally getting the replies from the Hindu organizations that I've contacted.

Again, many thanks for your efforts. But even Krishna (and ISKCON) says that there are other ways to self realization.

[c.smith]

Sorry about the double post. Has trouble posting the original, unsure how to edit out the second post.

[Bhava dasa]

I was told that Vishnu is an avatar of Krishna, that Krishna is the original God - there is no one above him. Funny thing, I thought that Krishna was the 8th incarnation of Vishnu. Am I correct?

Krsna is the original Person from whom He expands Himself as Visnu. When He enters the material atmosphere to engage in His pastimes, He does so through Visnu; therefore it appears that He is an incarnation of Visnu, but actually is not.

…one of my questions pertains to my relationship of 6 years to my partner. I was told by a "Spiritual Master" that I had to give up this relationship or I would never be able to have the guidance of a Guru. I realize that sex is only for procreative purposes but having to give up my relationship? I don't think so.

Assuming that the relationship was not destructively over-indulgent, from what you are saying here, it doesn’t make sense to me (with this limited picture) that you would have been given this type of advice. We are not this combination of material energy. We don’t choose which gender or preference. We are what we are. But, beyond the temporal external form, and beyond the subtle mind (which doesn’t always match the body), we are eternal souls. Whatever mess we find ourselves in, Krsna sees beyond it, and deeply cares for us anyway. Even if others are too blinded by the externals, He is not.

Krsna didn’t tell Arjuna to leave his ashram, but rather dovetail his nature in Gods service. This is called Karma-yoga. This instruction is found in the 3rd Chapter of Bhagavad-gita. This gradually purifies the conditioned soul from the stage of sakama karma-yoga to niskama karma-yoga, or pure devotional service.

As a result, I have explored and am comfortable with Lord Shiva. Some might say that it is the easy way, but I'm finding through meditation and contemplation that this is more in tune with my spiritual values.

Lord Siva is most compassionate, and is considered the topmost Vaisnava. Actually, He is Visnu transformed, just like milk is transformed into yogurt—“Dahi-Visnu.“

Again, many thanks for your efforts. But even Krishna (and ISKCON) says that there are other ways to self realization.

That’s right, if we are very sincere, Paramatma (the localized aspect of Bhagavan) Who is in the heart, will guide us from whatever direction we are coming. The main thing is to not let anything or anyone’s bad behavior stand in the way between us and our relationship with our Lord.

Hare Krsna,

[satay]

Krsna is the original Person from whom He expands Himself as Visnu.

Namaste,
when you make statements like these please don't forget to mention that this is ISKCON view and not a sanatana dharma view. Normal hindu view on this is that Vishnu is supreme and krishna is one of the avatara just like Rama.

Lord Siva is most compassionate, and is considered the topmost Vaisnava. Actually, He is Visnu transformed, just like milk is transformed into yogurt—“Dahi-Visnu.“

again this is ISKCON view and not a normal hindu view...with this dahi-vishnu view you can transform milk into yogurt but yogurt can not transform himself back to milk. This is an example to show that shiva is dependent on krsna of iskcon. That is simply not the hindu view.

That’s right, if we are very sincere, Paramatma (the localized aspect of Bhagavan) Who is in the heart, will guide us from whatever direction we are coming. The main thing is to not let anything or anyone’s bad behavior stand in the way between us and our relationship with our Lord.

Hare Krsna,

One of the things that turns me off with ISKConites is that I can close my eyes and hear what they are saying and then plug 'christ' and 'jesus' to everywhere they are saying krsna and there doesnt seem to be any difference remaining. The preaching is exactly like a christian missionary does his preaching and selling of krsna is done in the same fashion as christian god is sold.

[satay]

namaste Csmith,
If I were you, I would read the ISKCON stuff but then explore the hindu view points as well. Go to a library and pick up some books written by some indian authors. ISKCON view of 'all is krshna' is the same as the christian view of 'if you don't accpet jesus you are doomed' this is not the hindu view. If you are interested in hinduism look in the right places.

ISKCONites do not identify themselves as hindus (well some do when it is convienent for them)!

[Bhava dasa]

Go to a library and pick up some books written by some indian authors. ISKCON view of 'all is krshna' is the same as the christian view of 'if you don't accpet jesus you are doomed' this is not the hindu view.

Anyway...God is not a Hindu, and neither are you. You were only born a Hindu in this life. However, you may very well become a non-Hindu in your next--then you can receive the predjudice you are expelling in this life.

Furthermore, the books that ISKCON devotees study, are written by an "Indian" author. He is my diksa guru for over 30 years. Where do you get your information?

If you are interested in hinduism look in the right places.

What is your definition of "Hindu"?

ISKCONites do not identify themselves as hindus (well some do when it is convienent for them)!

Did I offend you in some way? I was simply having a nice discussion with Csmith. I apologize if my words so deeply offended you. Hare Krsna.

[Sudarshan]

when you make statements like these please don't forget to mention that this is ISKCON view and not a sanatana dharma view. Normal hindu view on this is that Vishnu is supreme and krishna is one of the avatara just like Rama.

It is always to funny to see the "original" word appended to Krishna everytime. I think it is a way they use to assert it. By the way, such a belief would not offend most Vaishnavites. Most of us see no differences whatsoever between Krishna and Vishnu. Avatar of God is non different in any way from God. If somebody wants to put Krishna over Vishnu that does not hurt Vaishnavites in anyway, except that it is a wrong beleif. It relies on a selective reading of Bhagavatam while totally ignoring the scriptural evidence in favour of Vishnu(Narayana) in the vedas. Even if Bhagavatam is stating so, it cannot override any shruti view - there simply is none higher than Narayana, and Krishna is the same as that. But holding that Krishna is the cause of Narayana is not supported by vedas at all. ( The word original is their own insertions into the translations)

[Bhava dasa]

Most of us see no differences whatsoever between Krishna and Vishnu. Avatar of God is non different in any way from God.

Very true. Most don't see the difference. However, those who understand Visnu-tattva more completely, do. Visnu is Krsna "working".

The relitives and friends of a famous actor know who he is behind the costum--they know how others see him as well. They also appreciate him in his different roles, but have a particular preferance to see him in his more personal feature, as their friend, son, or lover. Can you be a friend, parent, or lover to Visnu? No. Visnu relationship is dasya-rasa only.

Others who are in awe and reverence see him according to their relationship, but its not the only relationship, and not the one that brings him the most pleasure and satisfaction.

It is a preference of rasa.