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Thread: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

  1. #31
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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Tamil brahmins would oppose it because of their "love" for Tamil.
    As much as I have observed, the above situation is untrue. I have noticed Tamil brahmins give 'preference' in communicating through Hindi when possible even to fellow Tamilians... even when there are 'Hindi illiterate' folks like me around as part of the group!!! (Hindi has been given so much propaganda and priority EVERYWHERE it is a 'Status symbol' in my opinion to converse and show-off one's fluency in it!! And that is why people like me dislike it somewhat!).

    No offence meant.

  2. #32
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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    These kind of arguments could be divisive.

    I like Tamil Nadu for its ancient temples . I like Sanskrit for what it has offered for humanity.

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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
    These kind of arguments could be divisive.

    I like Tamil Nadu for its ancient temples . I like Sanskrit for what it has offered for humanity.
    +1

    It is divisive and I would rather see this thread closed, but some people get the itch to revive this thread from time to time. The ancient temples exist only in the South, the Northern ones having been pulverized by the Islamic invaders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirant01 View Post
    No offence meant.
    None was taken. I am sorry that everyone gets to read whatever is posted, even though it is meant only as a rebuttal to whatever the previous posters wrote. And yes, I should not be extrapolating facts and applying to the entire Tamil population. The thread became dormant and was revived by someone on Jul 9, with a "I think......." statement. Such things are ill advised, as 'I think' is a meaningless expression unless backed by some solid proof. It brings out nothing but acrimony. It was just a thoughtless thing to do.

    Pranam.

  4. #34
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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirant01 View Post
    As much as I have observed, the above situation is untrue. I have noticed Tamil brahmins give 'preference' in communicating through Hindi when possible even to fellow Tamilians... even when there are 'Hindi illiterate' folks like me around as part of the group!!! (Hindi has been given so much propaganda and priority EVERYWHERE it is a 'Status symbol' in my opinion to converse and show-off one's fluency in it!! And that is why people like me dislike it somewhat!).

    No offence meant.
    Now that's a situation I would like to be in tamilians talking to fellow tamilians in Hindi.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

  5. #35
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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    Namaste Believer,

    I did not mean to offend as I am not a Hindi speaker so I cannot claim what Hindi exactly is. My sister is fluent in Hindi as are my relatives (cousin married Punjabi Hindu etc. etc.). I was under the impression that Hindi does indeed have strong influences of Farsi and Arabic and has several elements of other north Indian languages (?). Is this not correct?

    Although it is strongly connected to Sanskrit through DevanAgari and its vocabulary, the grammar, diction, and usage is starkly different, no?

    Anyhow, what SahasranAma said about the Tamil Nadu govt., despite being extremely anti-Hindu and anti-Brahmin, did not manipulate the government to make Tamil a classic; it would have been a futile exercise.

    Now, Telugu and Kannada did do that in their respective states since Tamil and Sanskrit are considered classical languages. Saidevo pointed out that even the first slOkA of the Tirukkural is mostly Sanskrit and that Sanskrit may have influenced Tamil more than Tamils would like to admit.

    Either way, I still stand by my statement that Sanskrit should be made the national language of India for several reasons. It also levels the playing field as most people are not fluent in Sanskrit even though we recite slOkAs everyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,

    When a person is in the EIBF (Emotion Induced Brain Freeze) mode, all common sense goes out the door.

    First of all, Hindi is not a mish-mash of 'things'. Hindustani, the street version of Hindi is a mish-mash. So, let us use the correct terminology.

    Secondly, for unity, commonality has to be found and established as the rule. For language, that commonality is Hindi. Granted that there are other ancient and more respectable languages like Tamil and Sanskrit and Bengali and.... But you can't re-educate the entire population with a new language. It is just not practical. Every time I hear some well educated, smart people recommending Sanskrit as the national language, I have to search their heads. And the answer is always - if it can't be my native tongue, then I will not vote for Hindi either, so we will just pull this dream out of the air and propose Sanskrit. Guys, why don't you face the fact that Hindi, by virtue of it being the most spoken language, is the only choice. Having reservations about Hindi, or having outright hatred towards it, is couched in glowing terms as love for Sanskrit, and out pops the mantra, 'Sanskrit should be national language'. If we dismiss this pipe dream and look at the reality, there is no alternative to Hindi to unite the country. Of course, Tamil dalits would keep showing their hatred towards it, and the Tamil brahmins would oppose it because of their "love" for Tamil. It is okay to have love for ones native tongue. But that should not become hatred for everything else. Anti Hindi-ism is the only thing that brings together, the otherwise adversaries, that the Tamil brahmins and the Tamil dalits are.

    Why can't educated people do some soul searching?
    Why can't the smart people use common sense and realize what is practical, rather than suggesting some outlandish, non-implementable non-sense?
    Why is this hatred against Hindi couched in flowery accolades for Sanskrit?
    Why do we tend to think with our brains frozen?
    How in the world are you going to teach Sanskrit to one billion plus people, and who would pay for that? Does economics ever enter your heads?
    Are the Tamil dalits going to roll over and play dead when Sanskrit is imposed on them?

    I could care less if India has a national language or not; or if it does which one is given that status, but for god's sake, shed your hatred and be practical.

    Pranam.

    PS This is all off-topic, as the thread was for Sanskrit/Tamil antiquity. My apologies.

  6. #36
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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi View Post
    Either way, I still stand by my statement that Sanskrit should be made the national language of India for several reasons. It also levels the playing field as most people are not fluent in Sanskrit even though we recite slOkAs everyday.
    Time has passed Sanskrit, the Dev-Bhasha, by. The chances of its ever gaining its old glory and becoming the national language are non-existent. We both know that, but one of us is having trouble making peace with that fact. Mine or your wishful thinking is not what will be implemented, but what is best for the masses. This "level playing" field, which I have heard a million times before, is just anti-Hindi-ism in disguise. Life moves forward, not backwards. We are not going to press the RESET button and then expect everyone to learn a new language. We have to build on what exists today. If about 50% of the population is fluent in Hindi, the rest will have to fall in line. Is that disadvantageous to some? Yes, but then life itself is not fair at all times to all people. If the Tamils had been able to get this through their heads since the birth of the nation, everyone in the current generation would have had a working knowledge of Hindi. But, the first thing that the dalit Govt. did when it came to power in the early 60s was to discontinue offering Hindi/Sanskrit in schools, and overnight there were tens of thousands of brahmins out of a job. They considered brahmins to be agents of the Northerners and wanted them to leave TN. There is a price to be paid for the national identity. It involves learning Hindi without demanding or dreaming about that 'never to come' level playing field, and hitting the RESET button is not an option. So, we will agree to disagree and end the debate.

    Pranam.

    PS. No offense was taken about your unfamiliarity with or comments on Hindi. I am not a worshiper of Hindi, just a realistic observer.
    And I apologize for bringing up some of the historical facts about TN, which might be like open wounds for you, with you and your family having survived those tough times.
    -
    Last edited by Believer; 16 August 2012 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Added the PS text

  7. #37
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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    I strongly believe Sanskrit should be made national language for only reason that there is wealth of knowledge hidden in that language and our country's future generations can benefit from that. But it is not going to be easy for sure with Tamil people objecting that making Sanksrit national language would give superiority to Hindi speaking people. On the other hand I don't see why Tamil should be made national language (as we all know Karunanidhi has been trying for this for really long now) just because it's one of the oldest languages? Either language will bring out snobs from both northern and southern parts belitting other languages and behaving rudely with people of other states. I hope this remains an eternal problem as I see only problems by making either Sanskrit/Hindi or Tamil as national language.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

  8. #38
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    Re: Sanskrit and Tamil -- Which one is older?

    Vannakkam: I did interview a Sanskritologist many years ago. He said there were only a handful of people who could use it as a conversational language, and another handful who put it as their mother tongue on a census.

    Here in Canada we have a microcosm of the 'problem' with just one language besides English feeling left out and alone. So far there has been no civil war, although separation has been on the agenda at times, less so these days.

    Aum namasivaya

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